Need help..No comm. w PCM/BCM/TCS etc.
08-11-2010, 10:32 PM
#41
Team Owner
I spoke with GM today and got all the INTERCHANGEABLE numbers for the ABS Module for the NON-ACTIVE HANDLING Corvettes (NON-JL4)
Here they are, these are all interchangeable and are succession numbers for our Nettes with NON-ACTIVE Handling (Non-JL4):Point to remember: All these are "OUT" of PRODUCTION and can't be bought new anymore
ABS-5/TCS/MSVA2 M (Non-JL4)
GM 16268689
GM 16257049
New GM # (Aparent replacement, but out of production
)
GM 19244085
AC DELCO:
9367071
9350153
That's it and all these are "OUT" of production, "BUT" they are all interchangeable
We can only find ones that are used and in good working condition.
I mapped out the back side of my ABS Module - it is a work in progress but all the colors that match are where they "CONTINUITY" tested out along a path.
The other side of our Modules are sunk in epoxy (I.E.- our Processor and the rest of the boards little electrical parts) on the '99's and up these little parts on the opposite side are accessable, due to not being sunk in epoxy like ours are
The Black/White DOTS that overlap are GROUND - I resoldered all the joints just to be sure there were no cracks in them and making full contact.
I re-did it all and then reinstalled it, took it for a 15 mile test drive and then BAMM it happened again, Lights came on TCS/ABS on the DIC and got the codes C1255 and C1256 "Internal Malfunction" which is the kiss of death for these. And then it came up in the diagnostic - TCS - NO COMM.
bummer, I was really hoping this would work.
I believe it is the "Processor" (Big Square Shinny Thing)
that is loosing communication, or lets say overheating/heating up and taking a dump! It reminds me of a PC that I had that did the same thing when it got hot, turn it off, let it cool down, turn back on warm up, work well for a while then the processor would take a dump computer act freaky.
Onto the pics: 1st one module unsoldered/stock:
2nd Pic Power, Comm, Ground, and a couple other goodies mapped out:
Remember: This is a work in progress, when I get it off again I will test more junk on it. I don't know what all the resistors are supposed to OHM out to or for etc. But this is a start
Thanks,Matt
Here they are, these are all interchangeable and are succession numbers for our Nettes with NON-ACTIVE Handling (Non-JL4):Point to remember: All these are "OUT" of PRODUCTION and can't be bought new anymore
ABS-5/TCS/MSVA2 M (Non-JL4)
GM 16268689
GM 16257049
New GM # (Aparent replacement, but out of production
)GM 19244085
AC DELCO:
9367071
9350153
That's it and all these are "OUT" of production, "BUT" they are all interchangeable
We can only find ones that are used and in good working condition.I mapped out the back side of my ABS Module - it is a work in progress but all the colors that match are where they "CONTINUITY" tested out along a path.
The other side of our Modules are sunk in epoxy (I.E.- our Processor and the rest of the boards little electrical parts) on the '99's and up these little parts on the opposite side are accessable, due to not being sunk in epoxy like ours are
The Black/White DOTS that overlap are GROUND - I resoldered all the joints just to be sure there were no cracks in them and making full contact.
I re-did it all and then reinstalled it, took it for a 15 mile test drive and then BAMM it happened again, Lights came on TCS/ABS on the DIC and got the codes C1255 and C1256 "Internal Malfunction" which is the kiss of death for these. And then it came up in the diagnostic - TCS - NO COMM.
bummer, I was really hoping this would work.I believe it is the "Processor" (Big Square Shinny Thing)
that is loosing communication, or lets say overheating/heating up and taking a dump! It reminds me of a PC that I had that did the same thing when it got hot, turn it off, let it cool down, turn back on warm up, work well for a while then the processor would take a dump computer act freaky.Onto the pics: 1st one module unsoldered/stock:
2nd Pic Power, Comm, Ground, and a couple other goodies mapped out:
Remember: This is a work in progress, when I get it off again I will test more junk on it. I don't know what all the resistors are supposed to OHM out to or for etc. But this is a start
Thanks,Matt
Last edited by madmatt9471; 08-11-2010 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Add an extra "4" = 19244085
08-14-2010, 08:23 AM
#43
Racer
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
man,
I'm plagued by the same issue in my 97. I have tried so many things. Swapped out the ebcm with another 98, no go. stayed off for a while then shut down.
My issues started consistently after a header install. I get teh no com to the tcs and a hoast of other codes in every control module imaginable. when I disconnect the harness into the ebcm in the rear of the car and plug it back in, I can get com again (typically). I have been all over the connectors and bcm redone the gorunds. The car has 50k on it and has been garaged and barly driven in the rain and has only been in Georgia and VA. FOr the most part the connectins and circuit boards are in tip top shape.
I inspected the ignition switch, Looked perfect. The star connectors were clean and I went ahead and bent the connectors for better contact. My voltage typically runs at 13.0 without accessories and 12.5 with lights and radio.
It seems like when I go over 120 it just sets everything off. It happens consistently going around oak tree at vir on the first lap and going down the front strait at summit point. I don't know if the increased heat it's exposed to from the headers allowing higher temps to make it to the mufflers which the EBCM is sandwiched between. I'll drive it for a few hours on normal roads and everything is fine, then all of a sudden bam. No tcs/ABS and a hoast of codes.
I have efi live which connects and does what it needs to but doesn't give any info or control of the BCM to adjust for the change in tire size. I'm running 275 40 17 in the front and 305 35 18 in the rear. I don't know if that throws it off, but when I change to the stock z06 sized rains, it still happens.
I've checked all the wheel speed sensors and even hard wired the wires to eliminate the connectors. I've traced the wires back to the ebcm and everything appears to be fine.
If anyone has suggestions I'm game. I'll try removing the top of the 4 wire starr connector near the ebcm before I disconnect the EBCM harness this time and see if I get a comm.
Back to snake my 6'4 self into the drivers foot well...
I'm plagued by the same issue in my 97. I have tried so many things. Swapped out the ebcm with another 98, no go. stayed off for a while then shut down.
My issues started consistently after a header install. I get teh no com to the tcs and a hoast of other codes in every control module imaginable. when I disconnect the harness into the ebcm in the rear of the car and plug it back in, I can get com again (typically). I have been all over the connectors and bcm redone the gorunds. The car has 50k on it and has been garaged and barly driven in the rain and has only been in Georgia and VA. FOr the most part the connectins and circuit boards are in tip top shape.
I inspected the ignition switch, Looked perfect. The star connectors were clean and I went ahead and bent the connectors for better contact. My voltage typically runs at 13.0 without accessories and 12.5 with lights and radio.
It seems like when I go over 120 it just sets everything off. It happens consistently going around oak tree at vir on the first lap and going down the front strait at summit point. I don't know if the increased heat it's exposed to from the headers allowing higher temps to make it to the mufflers which the EBCM is sandwiched between. I'll drive it for a few hours on normal roads and everything is fine, then all of a sudden bam. No tcs/ABS and a hoast of codes.
I have efi live which connects and does what it needs to but doesn't give any info or control of the BCM to adjust for the change in tire size. I'm running 275 40 17 in the front and 305 35 18 in the rear. I don't know if that throws it off, but when I change to the stock z06 sized rains, it still happens.
I've checked all the wheel speed sensors and even hard wired the wires to eliminate the connectors. I've traced the wires back to the ebcm and everything appears to be fine.
If anyone has suggestions I'm game. I'll try removing the top of the 4 wire starr connector near the ebcm before I disconnect the EBCM harness this time and see if I get a comm.
Back to snake my 6'4 self into the drivers foot well...
08-14-2010, 08:49 AM
#44
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
When your problem happens, read the DTCs using the DIC immediately before you shut off the ignition. The DTCs will tell you what tripped the issue. IF,,,, you shut off the ignition you cause the EBTCM to reset. Once we have a DTCs that causes the issue, we can go from there.
EFI Live will NOT help you with BCM or EBTCM issues. We need to see any DTCs that pop up during the problem.
BC
EFI Live will NOT help you with BCM or EBTCM issues. We need to see any DTCs that pop up during the problem.
BC
08-14-2010, 03:37 PM
#45
Racer
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will do, thanks Bill!
I tried disconnecting the top bar from the star connector and it did not clear the no comm.
I un hooked the harness from the rear ebcm and re connected and I go the comm.
So I guess I should leave the bar off the star connector and try driving the car? That way if it trips I'll know it isn't a short in the door wire connections.
When it trips again, I will read the diagnostics before.
I've been keeping a history of the codes. THe last time all the codes tripped and I was able to get comm with the tcs to get the codes, they were:
28 TCS - C1255H, C1281H, C1286HC
So this indicates:
1255 that there is/was an internal malfunction
1281 Steering Sensor Uncorrelated Malfunction
1286 Steering Sensor Bias Malfunction
Please correct if this is wrong, Thanks for the analysis, and I'll see if I can get the codes.
Progress, maybe.
I tried disconnecting the top bar from the star connector and it did not clear the no comm.
I un hooked the harness from the rear ebcm and re connected and I go the comm.
So I guess I should leave the bar off the star connector and try driving the car? That way if it trips I'll know it isn't a short in the door wire connections.
When it trips again, I will read the diagnostics before.
I've been keeping a history of the codes. THe last time all the codes tripped and I was able to get comm with the tcs to get the codes, they were:
28 TCS - C1255H, C1281H, C1286HC
So this indicates:
1255 that there is/was an internal malfunction
1281 Steering Sensor Uncorrelated Malfunction
1286 Steering Sensor Bias Malfunction
Please correct if this is wrong, Thanks for the analysis, and I'll see if I can get the codes.
Progress, maybe.
08-16-2010, 09:16 AM
#46
Racer
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I could not get everything on the TCS/ABS to shut down but After clearing all the codes, here are the ones that cme back.
PCM p0103 HC MAF sensor circut high frequency
Radio u1016 H Loss of com with the PCM (clears but reoccurs after cycling ignition to off)
TCS C 1286 HC Steering sensor bias malfunction - I removed the power steering rack to install the cam, if in replacing it, it wasn't placed exactly as it was, wouild that set this code?
HVAC U1160 HC ?- I couldn't find this code - When this is reset, it comes right back. I hear a motor right behind the dash start to churn.
BO RFA - U 1096 H loss of comm with ipc
U 1064 HC Loss of comm with BCM
C 2120 HC TPM System malfunciton
After resetting and cycling the ignition without restarting/driving the car, these came back:
Radio U1016 H - Loss of comm w/ PCM
HVAC U 1160 HC - ?
BO RFA U 1096 H - Loss of comm with ipc
The car has had a history of electrical issues since I got it in 05 as the second owner. I can see in tracking the wires inside the car that someone else has been in the BCM area as the bracket was loose in the foot well.
It also had the steering column lock malfunction several times. This was before any mods really started. The dealer performed several recalls and the problem repeated. Each time several parts were replaced that were not covered under the warrenty before a final recall was performed and it hasn't happened since.
Unfortunately I do not have a record of the parts they replaced at this time.
PCM p0103 HC MAF sensor circut high frequency
Radio u1016 H Loss of com with the PCM (clears but reoccurs after cycling ignition to off)
TCS C 1286 HC Steering sensor bias malfunction - I removed the power steering rack to install the cam, if in replacing it, it wasn't placed exactly as it was, wouild that set this code?
HVAC U1160 HC ?- I couldn't find this code - When this is reset, it comes right back. I hear a motor right behind the dash start to churn.
BO RFA - U 1096 H loss of comm with ipc
U 1064 HC Loss of comm with BCM
C 2120 HC TPM System malfunciton
After resetting and cycling the ignition without restarting/driving the car, these came back:
Radio U1016 H - Loss of comm w/ PCM
HVAC U 1160 HC - ?
BO RFA U 1096 H - Loss of comm with ipc
The car has had a history of electrical issues since I got it in 05 as the second owner. I can see in tracking the wires inside the car that someone else has been in the BCM area as the bracket was loose in the foot well.
It also had the steering column lock malfunction several times. This was before any mods really started. The dealer performed several recalls and the problem repeated. Each time several parts were replaced that were not covered under the warrenty before a final recall was performed and it hasn't happened since.
Unfortunately I do not have a record of the parts they replaced at this time.
Last edited by dmiz0420; 08-16-2010 at 02:58 PM.
08-16-2010, 07:04 PM
#47
Racer
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I read the steering wheel position correction and performed the fix. I was 360 out and when I finished I was reading 2.49-2.50v
when I was under there I wiggled the wiring harness to what I would guess is the ipc box to the left of the radio which set off a few different codes in addition to some old ones.
BCM U1096 H Loss of com witu ipc
Radio U1016 H Loss of come with the pcm
U1096 H Loss of com with the ipc
HVAC U1096H loss of com with ipc
U1160HC
IPC U1176H loss of com with RFA
BO RFA U1096H Loss of comm withthe ipc
U 1064 H Loss of com with the bcm
After clearing the codes only one remained: HVAC U 1160 HC
I'll test drive again tonight to see make sure the steering wheel position is on and there aren't any more codes from that
Other than that< i would say there might be an issue with the ipc, but I havn't plugged in the star connector top to the ldcm rdcm and scm...
any more tips other than looking at the hvac and ipc connector?
Thanks!
when I was under there I wiggled the wiring harness to what I would guess is the ipc box to the left of the radio which set off a few different codes in addition to some old ones.
BCM U1096 H Loss of com witu ipc
Radio U1016 H Loss of come with the pcm
U1096 H Loss of com with the ipc
HVAC U1096H loss of com with ipc
U1160HC
IPC U1176H loss of com with RFA
BO RFA U1096H Loss of comm withthe ipc
U 1064 H Loss of com with the bcm
After clearing the codes only one remained: HVAC U 1160 HC
I'll test drive again tonight to see make sure the steering wheel position is on and there aren't any more codes from that
Other than that< i would say there might be an issue with the ipc, but I havn't plugged in the star connector top to the ldcm rdcm and scm...
any more tips other than looking at the hvac and ipc connector?
Thanks!
08-26-2010, 09:10 PM
#48
Racer
Member Since: Jul 2003
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My no comm issue was fixed by replacing the ECM. The tune is waaaayyy off so as soon as HPT sends me another key I will finally be able to fix that too. Finally got my regulator installed. I now have 58ish PSI instead of 80-105PSI...lol. Try to tune THAT!!!
Thanks Bill for all the tips. I have learned so much about my car from you. I really appreciate the time you take out to help.
Now that I have access to the lift next im going to find out why my darn second tank is useless
Thanks Bill for all the tips. I have learned so much about my car from you. I really appreciate the time you take out to help.
Now that I have access to the lift next im going to find out why my darn second tank is useless
06-11-2011, 02:09 AM
#49
Instructor
What price did Gene Culley give you??
Do you have all the power and proper grounds for the BCM?
In my 98 it is FOUR fuses that supply the BCM:
Instrument Panel Electrical Center
BCM & IPC, Mini fuse# 25
BCM2 Minifuse #23
BCM A Mini Fuse #9
BCM /1 Mini Fuse# 13
Theres also an Data Link Connector fuse that should be checked
C/ALDL , Mini Fuse# 29
There are TWO small grey connectors next to the BCM (to the left of it) There the STAR connections. The connectors join all the serial data wires to each module. The cap on each connector is a shorting buss that connects all the wires together.
On Star connector#1 the BCM and PCM serial data wires are on:
BCM = Pin "M" (Light Green wire)
PCM = Pin "B" (Dark Green wire)
You can read the serial wire to ground and if memory serves me correctly, you should see around 750 ohms.
For a test, you can disconnect the STAR connector cap on STAR Connector # 2 and see if it changes symptoms. It connects the left and right door control modules and seat control module and ALDL OBDII terminal to the main STAR buss. That will take those modules serial data line out of the equasion. It wont harm anything!
Make sure that the STAR shorting caps are clean dry, free of corossion and on tight.
Hope this helps
Bill C
Do you have all the power and proper grounds for the BCM?
In my 98 it is FOUR fuses that supply the BCM:
Instrument Panel Electrical Center
BCM & IPC, Mini fuse# 25
BCM2 Minifuse #23
BCM A Mini Fuse #9
BCM /1 Mini Fuse# 13
Theres also an Data Link Connector fuse that should be checked
C/ALDL , Mini Fuse# 29
There are TWO small grey connectors next to the BCM (to the left of it) There the STAR connections. The connectors join all the serial data wires to each module. The cap on each connector is a shorting buss that connects all the wires together.
On Star connector#1 the BCM and PCM serial data wires are on:
BCM = Pin "M" (Light Green wire)
PCM = Pin "B" (Dark Green wire)
You can read the serial wire to ground and if memory serves me correctly, you should see around 750 ohms.
For a test, you can disconnect the STAR connector cap on STAR Connector # 2 and see if it changes symptoms. It connects the left and right door control modules and seat control module and ALDL OBDII terminal to the main STAR buss. That will take those modules serial data line out of the equasion. It wont harm anything!
Make sure that the STAR shorting caps are clean dry, free of corossion and on tight.
Hope this helps
Bill C
06-11-2011, 07:55 AM
#50
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
You should be able to read the BCM Serial wire to ground and the PCM serial wire to ground. Both should give you a resistance to ground.
BC
06-11-2011, 09:30 PM
#51
Instructor
So I did the test again...
the Light Green wire in the STARR connector... 12k ohms to ground
the Dark Green wire in the STARR connector... 6M ohms to ground... that's not a typo.
This is cubically messed up in terms of comparison to the 750 ohm target that Bill mentioned.
the Light Green wire in the STARR connector... 12k ohms to ground
the Dark Green wire in the STARR connector... 6M ohms to ground... that's not a typo.
This is cubically messed up in terms of comparison to the 750 ohm target that Bill mentioned.
06-11-2011, 10:18 PM
#52
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
The 6 meg ohm reading is NOT playing well//// See why! Do some more testing on that wire!!!
BC
BC
04-12-2013, 02:49 PM
#53
Supporting Vendor
Ok,,New BCM, power to modules is reported SAT. (you did check,,,correct. IPC and BCM??) Grounds to the modules need to be checked also. 
Try this. Disconnect all the other modules. left and right door control modules, HVAC, RFA, SEAT Control Module, etc... You should only have the BCM, PCM and IPC on the serial buss. If another module is having an issue and interfearing with the IPC/BCM/PCM,, this will show that. The car should run fine with out all the other modules. You will get a LOT of NO COMMS messages.
BC
Try this. Disconnect all the other modules. left and right door control modules, HVAC, RFA, SEAT Control Module, etc... You should only have the BCM, PCM and IPC on the serial buss. If another module is having an issue and interfearing with the IPC/BCM/PCM,, this will show that. The car should run fine with out all the other modules. You will get a LOT of NO COMMS messages.
BC
Got the motor and all back in but are getting no comm at all.
I suspect we have something unplugged that needs to be plugged - like under the dash - but I am unsure as there are more than a few.
Checked all fuses
Checked grounds to BCM
Checked splice pack
Checked STAR connectors.
We did remove cannister and purge solenoids, and pretty much everything else is unplugged other than the motor and fuel system
Nothing yet - any advice on next step?
(We have not read any wires yet)
-Ken
04-12-2013, 04:19 PM
#55
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
What modules are you using in the vehicle?
Figure out what pin in the STAR connectors what module. POP the top off the Star connector. Measure EACH module to a good chassie ground and insure that none of the comms lines are grounded.
The STAR Connectors go to each module and the BCM is the ROUTER so to speak. Is the BCM properly powered and working correctly??
You can use a JUMPER WIRE and connect the BCM to PCM Comm wire together in the star connector and the vehicle SHOULD start / run and have proper coms. You dont have to have any of the other modules communicating to run the engine.
Figure out what pin in the STAR connectors what module. POP the top off the Star connector. Measure EACH module to a good chassie ground and insure that none of the comms lines are grounded.
The STAR Connectors go to each module and the BCM is the ROUTER so to speak. Is the BCM properly powered and working correctly??
You can use a JUMPER WIRE and connect the BCM to PCM Comm wire together in the star connector and the vehicle SHOULD start / run and have proper coms. You dont have to have any of the other modules communicating to run the engine.
04-12-2013, 06:49 PM
#56
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Another question?
Did you perform the BCM / PCM hand shake synchronization that is required if you replace/change the PCM/BCM???
Did you perform the BCM / PCM hand shake synchronization that is required if you replace/change the PCM/BCM???
04-12-2013, 07:03 PM
#57
Supporting Vendor
What modules are you using in the vehicle?
Figure out what pin in the STAR connectors what module. POP the top off the Star connector. Measure EACH module to a good chassie ground and insure that none of the comms lines are grounded.
The STAR Connectors go to each module and the BCM is the ROUTER so to speak. Is the BCM properly powered and working correctly??
You can use a JUMPER WIRE and connect the BCM to PCM Comm wire together in the star connector and the vehicle SHOULD start / run and have proper coms. You dont have to have any of the other modules communicating to run the engine.
Figure out what pin in the STAR connectors what module. POP the top off the Star connector. Measure EACH module to a good chassie ground and insure that none of the comms lines are grounded.
The STAR Connectors go to each module and the BCM is the ROUTER so to speak. Is the BCM properly powered and working correctly??
You can use a JUMPER WIRE and connect the BCM to PCM Comm wire together in the star connector and the vehicle SHOULD start / run and have proper coms. You dont have to have any of the other modules communicating to run the engine.
Thank you!
Bear with me - I'm an ME so I'll surely do/say things wrong.
Can't run the motor yet- we can only bump it. (no headers/radiator etc just yet). That will change soon but dont' want to install exhaust until end so I can finish wiring cleanup etc
We are moving the PCM inside the car. (Done)
We have removed:
HVAC
Seats
Airbags
Door/Window motor/locks
Radio/CD
And pretty much anything else that looks like it does not do anything.
That does not mean we removed the module if it is separate from the component.
I think the order is:
Make sure things that need plugged in are plugged in.
Check grounds.
Verify BCM is good (The ALDL fuse was blown - can something have happened while getting caged?)
Everything we open look sclean/dry (splice packs, BCM etc)
We'll have to figure out how to test power and ground for the BCM, PCM and instrument cluster. Those are the only modules we need now and we only need ABS and trac control later.
I still think we have something dumb/simple.
-k
04-12-2013, 07:21 PM
#59
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
The BCM and PCM are supplied by MULTIPLE battery voltage inputs. The 12 VDC supplies are either HOT at ALL Times or supplied by the ignition switch and Hot In RUN & Start or Hot in RUN and On
The fuses have TEST POINTS on top of each fuses. Use a meter and probe each test point to ground. You should see the same voltage on each test point as you see directly on the battery terminals.
The fuses have TEST POINTS on top of each fuses. Use a meter and probe each test point to ground. You should see the same voltage on each test point as you see directly on the battery terminals.
04-12-2013, 08:04 PM
#60
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
You cant forget the grounds. There are MANY but,, the ones that you need to make SURE are connected (and they FREQUENTLY get left off or attached where they shouldnt be) to the ground point:
They are:
G-104/108
G- 105
G-106
G-107
They are:
G-104/108
G- 105
G-106
G-107