Finally had a customer just test a set of ported 205's I optimized and went thru for him a few months ago with no other changes. I have helped a number of people on this board with the exact same mods and the key to this work is focused in the chambers with some light porting and refinement done in the ports. This highlights more airflow without more port volume adding even more airspeed and efficiency to an already very efficient design.

Its been a popular mod on a handful of 346's, a few 6.0 liter's, and a handful of medium sized strokers as well (383/402/403 combo's). Most if not all of these combo's have produced above average results when the rubber finally hit the rollers (all of them with amazing throttle response as well). It really works well with the larger bore stuff taking more advantage of the unshrouding I do in the combustion chambers but as evident by these results is still very effective on a 3.900 bore combo also. The graph below is an F-body with a mild 383 and a smallish 234/238 camshaft (very street friendly). I have normally been quoting 10-15 HP based on the gains I have seen on the flow bench which certainly looks inline based on the results seen below. I would say a 4' or larger bore motor would reap even a few more ponies from the better matched cylinder wall to combustion chamber transition and additional airflow the larger bore unlocks when the same head is placed on a larger bore fixture on my flowbench.

Note the head was 1-2 cc's smaller after I did the work and milled the deck, so the motor did have a couple of tenths higher static CR. Also, this was not done on the same day (almost a year apart actually) but per the customer the weather and conditions were very similar (same dyno and shop which was New Era Performance). The big news, IMO, is the area under the curve. It simply looks like a larger motor was tested by the way the increase in torque is available immediatly (much like a stroker would offer) and carries even larger gains in the middle with an 18 RWHP gain at it's widest point. Discounting a few ponies for the small CR bump, still a very effective gain from the work performed.

Most of my other customers have incorporated this work with alot of other changes....cams, ported intakes, sizable compression and/or displacement increases, etc.....so this is kind of a unique glimpse of what the bulk of the gains from just the head work is worth which a fair amount of you have inquired about. Previous to this I just quoted other package results that were similar and the 10-15 HP my "air dyno" told me it might be worth....LOL

Enjoy....

 

Pretty nice. What was the rest of the combo ?? (Intake, exhaust, etc)

 

Doug,

He was running a ported FAST but not from anyone I know (I busted his butt about not running one of mine but he had it awhile before opting to get involved with myself).

He was cool with providing his webpage for those who wanted more info...

http://www.geocities.com/andrew111_98/

Thanks,
Tony

PS....I would be lying if I didnt say that I was curious to see what one of my intakes would have made on this combo. I know of a few "ported" FASTs that made less than a stock out of the box intake! He was considering selling his and running one of mine but the hassle and economics of the move just didnt allow that to happen.

 

Nice gains on some light porting of the AFR's! When I get a FAST 92,I'm definitely sending it your way.

 

Sweet!

 

Guys,

A customer brought up a good point worth touching on in the C6 Tech area where I also posted the results.

Im copying and pasting that here because its really something I should have better clarified before posting anyway

-Tony
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Thats a very good point and something I should have clarified a little better...

The reality is as good as our CNC programming is (and anyone else's for that matter short of some ultra exotic programs found in the one off big dollar stuff), in a production environment there will always be room for more in the hands of a very capable cylinder head expert. The fact I designed the original prototype enables me to know exactly what area's to finese that might be sensitive to flow and respond with some gains. Basically, I take a reeaaally good CNC piece and I perfect it essentially all by hand. It would be impossible for a mass produced piece to be as perfect as I could create/refine by hand.

Some of the gains related to this work will in fact be incorporated into some new products that are a few months away (our all new 215 LS head and finally the completion of our big boy which has grown from 235cc's to 240 which will be its moniker). Both of the new heads are cathedral style ports and neither is six bolt (before you ask) which is really a perk that few of you actually need (you have to be over four digits to the tire before a four bolt head will start to give you long term reliability issues). But even those heads massaged by the guy that created the prototyper they were digitized from would see small gains from "blueprinting" and some fine romance work with the grinder. How much time do you think is invested in a head destined for a NASCAR engine or the like. Countless additional hours looking to romance and optimize the last few precious CFM.

This work isnt for the average hot rodder....its for the guys that are looking for every last ounce they can wring from their engine (and are willing to pay the premium to get it).

Hope this clears a few things up for you guys....I knew as soon as I hit send I probably should have included a paragragh or two touching on this....LOL

-Tony

 

Tony,

I can second the motion on the throttle response on my 417 with your "touched up" 205s. You said that my 417 with these heads would hit harder than my stock LS6 and Maggie. You were right! I don't have any roller numbers yet but my first track event is next weekend. My SOP meter says I have ~500tq. I can't wait to run with the Porsche and Ferrari clubs.

I try to get some numbers for you next month.

 

I was wondering where you disappeared too....LOL

I had a run of those about the same time I helped you and I only received a handful of results back.....plus no news is always good news....LOL

Have a feeling with the nicer weather upon everyone some more results will start working there way to the public forums.

Good to hear from you....hope all is well

-Tony

PS....PM/call me with some track or dyno input when you can!

 

Hey Tony! I don't have any comparo's on my setup since your newly ported heads went on a new motor. However, I can attest that the final outcome was, and still is, very impressive. The numbers were higher, both in torque and hp than almost all of the other similar setups. The low end manners are very good, and the throttle response is almost violent. I had to 'detune' the spark curve a bit in the low power areas because the throttle response was so nasty. I've experienced the benefits of your talented work for a while and still have the smile on my face. Keep up the good work!

 

Arkay,

I think you tune with HPTuners. If you do, can you share your tune with me. I'm interested in your "detune". I am a little worried on how responsive it is when coming out of turns. There is a set of turns at Summit Point that you increase speed by almost 30 mph. Feathering the throttle may be a challenge.

rspence@gmail.com

 

NO detune.....

STICKIER tires!!

Rob....take some timing out of it to soften it up if you need to at the RPM's in question. I would take it on the course first optimized to see if you can pull it off. If you dont have "R" compound road race tires now might be the time to more heavily consider there purchase.

=)

 

I run Toyo RA1s (305s). Later this year I will step it up to Hoosiers or Kumhos. I'll try to learn to drive the car before detuning.

 

Look at the R1 BFG.....bad *** tire and it lasts a little longer than the two you mentioned or at least thats what I hear. Im considering them for my C5 (on the street) knowing the new combo is going to have the power and torque of a bigblock and not much else will hook it that would still retain good sharp handling as well.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=g-Force+R1

 

Good info Tony

On a some what related issue, using the smaller runner high velocity heads on a larger cube motor should produce more torque?

for example, your PP AFR205s with FAST92/92 on an LS3. ?

 

Well it certainly did on my ls2 based 402. And my heads are untouched other then being milled 58cc. Afr 205's are bad *** on strokers. Amazing port velocity, instant throttle response. Scary at first. LOL. I could only imagine how they would be if Tony had worked his magic on my heads. Sorry ran out of $$

 

How does your ported AFRs compare to a set of Cartek stage 4 LS6 heads? I just got a retune at Lethal Performance and made 454-400 on a dynojet that puts out the same numbers as a Mustang dyno right down the road from them.

 

very cool. I was going to build an LS2 but looks like we can do an LS3 short block, then add from there.

 

In the past I have similar flow numbers with approx 30 cc's less port volume (huge difference) although a ported 205 would have stronger low midlift flow as well. But, its been awhile since I have tested any of their stuff and I have no idea if any changes have been made. The reality is anytime you port a stock casting your working with a handicap....the 205's are as good as they are not only because I removed material in the right places but more importantly where I added material in the right places. When porting a stock casting you can only enlarge it to make it better and thats why a clean sheet design like our product will always be more efficient at processing air.

I think you would be especially impressed with the part throttle SOTP acceleration and I also feel that we would make more peak power and a fair amount more torque. Its the part throttle and low RPM response that will be in your face better....a really nice perk on a streetbound Vette or should I say one that spends most of its time on the street where you can really benefit from the increased efficiency (big airspeed and more inertia to better pack the cylinders). That also contributes to better MPG which isnt a bad perk these days either.

-Tony

PS......PM or call me and we can discuss your combo in more detail....I would like to know more about the rest of the package.

 

PM sent

 

Didnt get anything....just an FYI

-Tony