I'm gettin good at dropping the drivetrain...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria Ca.
I'm gettin good at dropping the drivetrain...
Apparently,when I did my clutch install about two months ago,I fubared the pilot bearing.
Little $10 part,buried in "the belly of the beast".
All was cool till last week,when I started having trouble getting into reverse -not the usual "no,I don't want to go in right now" thing,but wouldn't go in at all,unless I shut the car off first.
That,and the accompanying squeaking/groaning noise from the bellhousing area,told me what I was going to be doing over the weekend.
Anyway,since I really don't want to do it a third time,I opted for a Kevlar/Composite pilot bushing -they're supposed to be more forgiving on reassembly(harder to screw up),and they're also good if the end of your propshaft looks like a beaver has been gnawing on it,like mine did,thanks to the grenaded needle bearings.
I smoothed this out with 600 wetordry,and Mothers polish before reassembly...
These are my custom flywheel locks-they work sweet!
(they're actually conveyor sprockets form a Burger King toaster,but they work perfect)
I'll let you know how the Kevlar bushing works out-it's great so far,but I've only put about 50 miles on it...
Little $10 part,buried in "the belly of the beast".
All was cool till last week,when I started having trouble getting into reverse -not the usual "no,I don't want to go in right now" thing,but wouldn't go in at all,unless I shut the car off first.
That,and the accompanying squeaking/groaning noise from the bellhousing area,told me what I was going to be doing over the weekend.
Anyway,since I really don't want to do it a third time,I opted for a Kevlar/Composite pilot bushing -they're supposed to be more forgiving on reassembly(harder to screw up),and they're also good if the end of your propshaft looks like a beaver has been gnawing on it,like mine did,thanks to the grenaded needle bearings.
I smoothed this out with 600 wetordry,and Mothers polish before reassembly...
These are my custom flywheel locks-they work sweet!
(they're actually conveyor sprockets form a Burger King toaster,but they work perfect)
I'll let you know how the Kevlar bushing works out-it's great so far,but I've only put about 50 miles on it...
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
The trick is to dis-assemble the torque tube from the tranny and leave the inspection plate down (off) and then align the clutch without the weight of tranny and differential.
This prevents bending disc and fubaring the pilot bearing.
This prevents bending disc and fubaring the pilot bearing.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 327
Likes: 0
From: Metamora IL
Been there /done that. I did a motor swap and forgot to change the PB. My friend bought a 3ft extension and a Craftsman swivel that has the 13MM socket built in. Those 2 tools help make VERY short work of the bellhousing!
Safety Car
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,812
Likes: 46
From: Taylorsville North Carolina
I bought the flywheel tool from NAPA that rotates or holds flywheel so I wouldn't have to remove bellhousing. Worked well. I bought the Kevlar bearing but didn't have the guts to use it and put stock style back in.
Just curious how the pilot bearing makes it hard to get into reverse as I am having trouble getting mine into reverse after less that 1 week of driving. Sometimes it goes and sometimes it just locks(?) the gate. I have rebled the clutch thinking that was the problem. I triple checked the lockout sensor on tranny so I am pretty sure it is not that. Just curious.
Thanks.
Just curious how the pilot bearing makes it hard to get into reverse as I am having trouble getting mine into reverse after less that 1 week of driving. Sometimes it goes and sometimes it just locks(?) the gate. I have rebled the clutch thinking that was the problem. I triple checked the lockout sensor on tranny so I am pretty sure it is not that. Just curious.
Thanks.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria Ca.
The prop shaft keeps spinning when the clutch is depressed,because the pilot bearing "grabs" it if the bearings are toast,and it seems like the synchros for reverse aren't strong enough to "stop" the spinning so it'll go into gear.
First was also difficult,but not impossible.
If your pilot is bad,you should definitely hear some rumbling/groaning/squeaking noises when not moving,car running,clutch in, trans in gear.
In neutral,clutch out,the propshaft spins up to match engine speed,and the noises will go away.
I didn't remove the bellhousing,either,just the inspection plate-I really didn't like the looks of those upper bellhousing bolts!
My choice of pilot bushings was between sintered bronze and Kevlar,(no more needle bearings for me)and I decided to go with the new technology on this one.
Guess I'm the guinea pig here,since after numerous searches on the forum,I didn't find anyone else who had used one yet.
In my line of work,I have seen kevlar composite friction materials that were still like new after ten years of constant use,so I know it's some pretty durable stuff-We'll see how well that durability translates to bearing surfaces...
First was also difficult,but not impossible.
If your pilot is bad,you should definitely hear some rumbling/groaning/squeaking noises when not moving,car running,clutch in, trans in gear.
In neutral,clutch out,the propshaft spins up to match engine speed,and the noises will go away.
I didn't remove the bellhousing,either,just the inspection plate-I really didn't like the looks of those upper bellhousing bolts!
My choice of pilot bushings was between sintered bronze and Kevlar,(no more needle bearings for me)and I decided to go with the new technology on this one.
Guess I'm the guinea pig here,since after numerous searches on the forum,I didn't find anyone else who had used one yet.
In my line of work,I have seen kevlar composite friction materials that were still like new after ten years of constant use,so I know it's some pretty durable stuff-We'll see how well that durability translates to bearing surfaces...
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria Ca.
It's a Kevlar/Hi-Temp Nylon composite-the Nylon provides the lubrication,Chopped(short) Kevlar fibers provide the strength.
It's supposed to have a constant working temp of around 375-400f,with a max temp of 500f
Just how well it's gonna work remains to be seen-looks good on paper,though.
The Composite is Hydlar-Z,but ZM or ZT looks like it'd work even better,but I couldn't find anything made from those materials.
Could buy a chunk of it and have one machined,I suppose(but I hope I never have to)
* Hydlar Z - (Nylon/ Kevlar Composite)
* Hydlar ZT - (Nylon/ Kevlar/ PTFE (teflon)Composite) provides increased wear and lubricity.
* Hydlar ZM - (Nylon/ Kevlar/ Molybdenum Disulphide Composite) offers improved surface hardness, increased wear and lubricity.
It's supposed to have a constant working temp of around 375-400f,with a max temp of 500f
Just how well it's gonna work remains to be seen-looks good on paper,though.
The Composite is Hydlar-Z,but ZM or ZT looks like it'd work even better,but I couldn't find anything made from those materials.
Could buy a chunk of it and have one machined,I suppose(but I hope I never have to)
* Hydlar Z - (Nylon/ Kevlar Composite)
* Hydlar ZT - (Nylon/ Kevlar/ PTFE (teflon)Composite) provides increased wear and lubricity.
* Hydlar ZM - (Nylon/ Kevlar/ Molybdenum Disulphide Composite) offers improved surface hardness, increased wear and lubricity.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,812
Likes: 46
From: Taylorsville North Carolina
The prop shaft keeps spinning when the clutch is depressed,because the pilot bearing "grabs" it if the bearings are toast,and it seems like the synchros for reverse aren't strong enough to "stop" the spinning so it'll go into gear.
First was also difficult,but not impossible.
If your pilot is bad,you should definitely hear some rumbling/groaning/squeaking noises when not moving,car running,clutch in, trans in gear.
In neutral,clutch out,the propshaft spins up to match engine speed,and the noises will go away.
I didn't remove the bellhousing,either,just the inspection plate-I really didn't like the looks of those upper bellhousing bolts!
My choice of pilot bushings was between sintered bronze and Kevlar,(no more needle bearings for me)and I decided to go with the new technology on this one.
Guess I'm the guinea pig here,since after numerous searches on the forum,I didn't find anyone else who had used one yet.
In my line of work,I have seen kevlar composite friction materials that were still like new after ten years of constant use,so I know it's some pretty durable stuff-We'll see how well that durability translates to bearing surfaces...
First was also difficult,but not impossible.
If your pilot is bad,you should definitely hear some rumbling/groaning/squeaking noises when not moving,car running,clutch in, trans in gear.
In neutral,clutch out,the propshaft spins up to match engine speed,and the noises will go away.
I didn't remove the bellhousing,either,just the inspection plate-I really didn't like the looks of those upper bellhousing bolts!
My choice of pilot bushings was between sintered bronze and Kevlar,(no more needle bearings for me)and I decided to go with the new technology on this one.
Guess I'm the guinea pig here,since after numerous searches on the forum,I didn't find anyone else who had used one yet.
In my line of work,I have seen kevlar composite friction materials that were still like new after ten years of constant use,so I know it's some pretty durable stuff-We'll see how well that durability translates to bearing surfaces...
Thanks.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Go Unplug switch underneath car (Transmission) for the reverse lockouts and see if it work. The lockout switch is controlled by the PCM and engages at speeds greater than 3 mph.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,812
Likes: 46
From: Taylorsville North Carolina
I still have my Kevlar bushing I got from JEGs but didn't use. I will sell it to u for what I pd for it. It will save you shipping and taxes. Let me know if you want it. It is still up-opened in the box.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,812
Likes: 46
From: Taylorsville North Carolina
OK, I unplugged the switch and no help. Even with ignition off or on, it's a no go. The switch we are talking about is the one on top of the tranny - right? I may try to get a dmm on it tomorrow and see if there is power. I could not find a fuse related to that switch, so that is not it.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
OK, I unplugged the switch and no help. Even with ignition off or on, it's a no go. The switch we are talking about is the one on top of the tranny - right? I may try to get a dmm on it tomorrow and see if there is power. I could not find a fuse related to that switch, so that is not it.
If you can't get it into reverse with the ignition off, then either your shifter is mis-aligned or you have some internal tranny problems.
The reverse lock-out is not activated until you put the key in ans turn it to the on position.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria Ca.
Uh,...no.
When the reverse lockout solenoid is powered up(key on),the car can then be put into reverse.
It de-energizes at 3 mph,so you can't jam it back in once you're moving.
When you stop,you can once again put the car in reverse,as long as the key is on.
With the key off,the solenoid is in the locked-out position.
The car will not go into reverse with the key off.
Shut it off in reverse. Take it out of reverse. Does it go back in?
try it.
When the reverse lockout solenoid is powered up(key on),the car can then be put into reverse.
It de-energizes at 3 mph,so you can't jam it back in once you're moving.
When you stop,you can once again put the car in reverse,as long as the key is on.
With the key off,the solenoid is in the locked-out position.
The car will not go into reverse with the key off.
Shut it off in reverse. Take it out of reverse. Does it go back in?
try it.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
That's not what the service manual states.
Document ID# 688739
2001 Chevrolet/Geo Corvette
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reverse Inhibit Description and Operation
The reverse inhibit solenoid is a safety feature which prevents an inadvertent shift into reverse at speeds above 5 kp/h (3 mph). The system consist of the following components:
The powertrain control module (PCM).
The reverse inhibit solenoid.
With the ignition ON battery voltage is supplied directly to the reverse inhibit solenoid. At forward speeds above 5 kp/h (3 mph) the PCM grounds the control circuit of the reverse inhibit solenoid. This energizes the solenoid and mechanically blocks the shift lever from going into the REVERSE position.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Document ID# 688739
2001 Chevrolet/Geo Corvette
Document ID# 688739
2001 Chevrolet/Geo Corvette
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reverse Inhibit Description and Operation
The reverse inhibit solenoid is a safety feature which prevents an inadvertent shift into reverse at speeds above 5 kp/h (3 mph). The system consist of the following components:
The powertrain control module (PCM).
The reverse inhibit solenoid.
With the ignition ON battery voltage is supplied directly to the reverse inhibit solenoid. At forward speeds above 5 kp/h (3 mph) the PCM grounds the control circuit of the reverse inhibit solenoid. This energizes the solenoid and mechanically blocks the shift lever from going into the REVERSE position.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Document ID# 688739
2001 Chevrolet/Geo Corvette
Uh,...no.
When the reverse lockout solenoid is powered up(key on),the car can then be put into reverse.
It de-energizes at 3 mph,so you can't jam it back in once you're moving.
When you stop,you can once again put the car in reverse,as long as the key is on.
With the key off,the solenoid is in the locked-out position.
The car will not go into reverse with the key off.
Shut it off in reverse. Take it out of reverse. Does it go back in?
try it.
When the reverse lockout solenoid is powered up(key on),the car can then be put into reverse.
It de-energizes at 3 mph,so you can't jam it back in once you're moving.
When you stop,you can once again put the car in reverse,as long as the key is on.
With the key off,the solenoid is in the locked-out position.
The car will not go into reverse with the key off.
Shut it off in reverse. Take it out of reverse. Does it go back in?
try it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,383
Likes: 14
From: Kinston North Carolina
Uh,...no.
When the reverse lockout solenoid is powered up(key on),the car can then be put into reverse.
It de-energizes at 3 mph,so you can't jam it back in once you're moving.
When you stop,you can once again put the car in reverse,as long as the key is on.
With the key off,the solenoid is in the locked-out position.
The car will not go into reverse with the key off.
Shut it off in reverse. Take it out of reverse. Does it go back in?
try it.
When the reverse lockout solenoid is powered up(key on),the car can then be put into reverse.
It de-energizes at 3 mph,so you can't jam it back in once you're moving.
When you stop,you can once again put the car in reverse,as long as the key is on.
With the key off,the solenoid is in the locked-out position.
The car will not go into reverse with the key off.
Shut it off in reverse. Take it out of reverse. Does it go back in?
try it.
This is from the Service Manual.
---------------------------------------------
With the ignition ON battery voltage is supplied directly to the reverse inhibit solenoid. At forward speeds above 5 kp/h (3 mph) the PCM grounds the control circuit of the reverse inhibit solenoid. This energizes the solenoid and mechanically blocks the shift lever from going into the REVERSE position.
----------------------------------------------------
EDIT:----ajg1915, I guess you type faster than me!
Last edited by byronhunter; Dec 24, 2009 at 10:12 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria Ca.
From the GM 1998 Corvette Service Manual
1998 Corvette Service Manual Volume 3 of3
Page 6-810 Engine Controls-5.7L
DTC P0801 Reverse Inhibit Solenoid Control Circuit
" When the Reverse Inhibit solenoid energizes,the operator can shift the transmission into reverse. The PCM enables the reverse inhibit solenoid whenever vehicle speed is below 5 MPH.When the vehicles speed is above 5 MPH,the PCM de-energizes the solenoid,which prevents the operator from shifting the transmission into reverse."
This is how Mine (1998) works,if other years are different,then I apologize for jumping to any conclusions.
(although this way makes more sense,IMO)
1998 Corvette Service Manual Volume 3 of3
Page 6-810 Engine Controls-5.7L
DTC P0801 Reverse Inhibit Solenoid Control Circuit
" When the Reverse Inhibit solenoid energizes,the operator can shift the transmission into reverse. The PCM enables the reverse inhibit solenoid whenever vehicle speed is below 5 MPH.When the vehicles speed is above 5 MPH,the PCM de-energizes the solenoid,which prevents the operator from shifting the transmission into reverse."
This is how Mine (1998) works,if other years are different,then I apologize for jumping to any conclusions.
(although this way makes more sense,IMO)
Last edited by Carcass; Dec 25, 2009 at 02:12 AM.