Sway Bar Installation
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 5
From: Forsyth Illinois
Sway Bar Installation
I am finally getting around to installing my new Hotchkis sway bars on my 2000 vert I have had setting around for too long.
The rear bar has 3 holes to choose from. I think the outer hole is the stiffest and inner hole is least stiff, correct?
The poly bushings that come with these says "Do not grease these bushings, they are dry lube impregnated". Was wondering if anyone has experienced any squeaking from these?
And last, the end links are adjustable, (pic included) how do I know where to pre adjust them too? I plan on using Mobil Synthetic grease on the end link grease certs.
Thanks Mark
The rear bar has 3 holes to choose from. I think the outer hole is the stiffest and inner hole is least stiff, correct?
The poly bushings that come with these says "Do not grease these bushings, they are dry lube impregnated". Was wondering if anyone has experienced any squeaking from these?
And last, the end links are adjustable, (pic included) how do I know where to pre adjust them too? I plan on using Mobil Synthetic grease on the end link grease certs.
Thanks Mark
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 89
From: Indy IN
No, the longer that you make the arm, the softer the bar is...
I would start with the outermost hole and if the car pushes, then move it in a notch...
Nice links, I like the grease fittings, that should help them stay quiet.
What you want to do is set the car on a LEVEL surface. That does not mean your garage or anyplace that simply looks level. Actually finding a level place is the hardest part of the job. You can use shims on the garage floor if you get a long straight edge and put a level on it. You need to do it across the corners and side to side. Once you find a level surface you simply attach the sway bar end links so that they don't have any tension in them. Actually the best and easiest way to do it is on a alignment rack, but that's not as easy to find.
As a last resort, you can install them with the suspension at full droop, but you can end up with preloading on one side and the front bar can move to one side.
I would start with the outermost hole and if the car pushes, then move it in a notch...
Nice links, I like the grease fittings, that should help them stay quiet.
What you want to do is set the car on a LEVEL surface. That does not mean your garage or anyplace that simply looks level. Actually finding a level place is the hardest part of the job. You can use shims on the garage floor if you get a long straight edge and put a level on it. You need to do it across the corners and side to side. Once you find a level surface you simply attach the sway bar end links so that they don't have any tension in them. Actually the best and easiest way to do it is on a alignment rack, but that's not as easy to find.
As a last resort, you can install them with the suspension at full droop, but you can end up with preloading on one side and the front bar can move to one side.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 5
From: Forsyth Illinois
No, the longer that you make the arm, the softer the bar is...
I would start with the outermost hole and if the car pushes, then move it in a notch...
Nice links, I like the grease fittings, that should help them stay quiet.
What you want to do is set the car on a LEVEL surface. That does not mean your garage or anyplace that simply looks level. Actually finding a level place is the hardest part of the job. You can use shims on the garage floor if you get a long straight edge and put a level on it. You need to do it across the corners and side to side. Once you find a level surface you simply attach the sway bar end links so that they don't have any tension in them. Actually the best and easiest way to do it is on a alignment rack, but that's not as easy to find.
As a last resort, you can install them with the suspension at full droop, but you can end up with preloading on one side and the front bar can move to one side.
I would start with the outermost hole and if the car pushes, then move it in a notch...
Nice links, I like the grease fittings, that should help them stay quiet.
What you want to do is set the car on a LEVEL surface. That does not mean your garage or anyplace that simply looks level. Actually finding a level place is the hardest part of the job. You can use shims on the garage floor if you get a long straight edge and put a level on it. You need to do it across the corners and side to side. Once you find a level surface you simply attach the sway bar end links so that they don't have any tension in them. Actually the best and easiest way to do it is on a alignment rack, but that's not as easy to find.
As a last resort, you can install them with the suspension at full droop, but you can end up with preloading on one side and the front bar can move to one side.
I planned on putting the car on 4 corner jack stands. I can get it level front to back, side to side and cross leveled, no problem. On the jack stands the wheels will be free hanging. Is this what I want when I install them?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 5
From: Forsyth Illinois
I was going to start the install today, but decided to wait until I hear from a few others posting their thoughts on if I can do this with wheels hanging, car up on jack stands.
If the car is to be level, but up on jack stands, from where do I level it? I mean from what point under the car do I use as the level point or bench mark? I have a hi quality laser level that I can get perfect level measurements from, but need a point to go by.
Thanks, Mark
If the car is to be level, but up on jack stands, from where do I level it? I mean from what point under the car do I use as the level point or bench mark? I have a hi quality laser level that I can get perfect level measurements from, but need a point to go by.
Thanks, Mark
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
If you want the best setup then you need to corner weigh the car and then set-up the end links so they drop into the holes without putting any tension in the bar. Part of this should likely involve your weight being in the drivers seat.
If you can't or don't want to do that then set the end links up so they are the same length and just install it. You'll get more gain from the bars installed this way then not having it all all.
As for which hole. Think of it this way. The give in the bar is achieved by twisting the bar. The longer the lever you put on the end of the bar the easier it is to twist. If it is easier to twist then the bar has less of an effect.
Peter
If you can't or don't want to do that then set the end links up so they are the same length and just install it. You'll get more gain from the bars installed this way then not having it all all.
As for which hole. Think of it this way. The give in the bar is achieved by twisting the bar. The longer the lever you put on the end of the bar the easier it is to twist. If it is easier to twist then the bar has less of an effect.
Peter
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 5
From: Forsyth Illinois
If you want the best setup then you need to corner weigh the car and then set-up the end links so they drop into the holes without putting any tension in the bar. Part of this should likely involve your weight being in the drivers seat.
If you can't or don't want to do that then set the end links up so they are the same length and just install it. You'll get more gain from the bars installed this way then not having it all all.
As for which hole. Think of it this way. The give in the bar is achieved by twisting the bar. The longer the lever you put on the end of the bar the easier it is to twist. If it is easier to twist then the bar has less of an effect.
Peter
If you can't or don't want to do that then set the end links up so they are the same length and just install it. You'll get more gain from the bars installed this way then not having it all all.
As for which hole. Think of it this way. The give in the bar is achieved by twisting the bar. The longer the lever you put on the end of the bar the easier it is to twist. If it is easier to twist then the bar has less of an effect.
Peter
If I understand the pre load, then the bars and link should be installed with the wheels on the ground, not on jack stands. Correct?
Pro
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 588
Likes: 1
From: Santa Ynez Ca.
I don't get why you need to lift the car off the ground? I just ran my '01 up on my race stands, front then rear and installed the bars. I greased the bushings with synthetic grease, the links as well and made sure to tighten the links and zerk fittings correctly. Pretty simple.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
To go further, you can't even lift the car and then put it on something because that will affect the ride height. You have to do it without taking the weight of the car off the wheels after it has been driven some small distance.
If you want to just install them and enjoy likely 95% of their benefits then just set the links equal length and do it like you were first planning. They are adjustable so you can change the adjustment at a later date.
Well, you didn't understand the holes in the rear bar in your first post...
Peter
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 5
From: Forsyth Illinois
If you're going to adjust them so they're not got any load then yes you have to do it with the wheels on the ground.
To go further, you can't even lift the car and then put it on something because that will affect the ride height. You have to do it without taking the weight of the car off the wheels after it has been driven some small distance.
If you want to just install them and enjoy likely 95% of their benefits then just set the links equal length and do it like you were first planning. They are adjustable so you can change the adjustment at a later date.
Well, you didn't understand the holes in the rear bar in your first post...
Peter
To go further, you can't even lift the car and then put it on something because that will affect the ride height. You have to do it without taking the weight of the car off the wheels after it has been driven some small distance.
If you want to just install them and enjoy likely 95% of their benefits then just set the links equal length and do it like you were first planning. They are adjustable so you can change the adjustment at a later date.
Well, you didn't understand the holes in the rear bar in your first post...
Peter
Your explanation in post #7 explained clearly the holes. Thanks
I think I need some ramps to run it up on, enough to get under her safely. I will look into ramps.
Mark
Pro
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 738
Likes: 2
From: Richmond VA
If you are putting the car on jackstands, then it does not need to be level. The leveling only applies if the wheels are supporting the car. Think of it this way. If the car is down on the tires and the ground is not level then you will have one or more wheels supporting more weight (suspension more compressed) than they normally would on a level surface and will cause preloading of the sway bar. If the suspension is at full droop, there will be no load on any wheel so having it level will make no difference. Short answer.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
Just to be clear. I put my front sway bar on twice with the frame on jackstands and the rear swaybar on once with the frame on jack stands. Make sure it's centered and it's fine.
Peter
Peter
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 5
From: Forsyth Illinois
If you are putting the car on jackstands, then it does not need to be level. The leveling only applies if the wheels are supporting the car. Think of it this way. If the car is down on the tires and the ground is not level then you will have one or more wheels supporting more weight (suspension more compressed) than they normally would on a level surface and will cause preloading of the sway bar. If the suspension is at full droop, there will be no load on any wheel so having it level will make no difference. Short answer.
(1) I have jack and jack stands and have had the car on the stands several times. I originally was going to install the bars with car on jack stands and wheels at full drop.
I thought, from previous posters that this was not the way to do it??
(2) I can get ramps, but if I run the front of the car on the ramp and rear is on the ground, will this not preload the suspenshion?? Am I missing something?
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,321
Likes: 1,586
From: Western NY
I'll throw in my $0.02 worth....
Essentially, with the car sitting on a level surface, it's weight on the wheels, you want the arms of the bar to be paralell to the ground. This isn't the easiest to do with a C-5, because the arms are pretty short.
What I suggest you do, is use the frames crossmembers as a visual reference, and get the middle of the bar(s) to be paralell to the crossmember. Then set the length of one link for the front so it easily sets into place, and match the length to the other. Do the same for the rear....
Essentially, with the car sitting on a level surface, it's weight on the wheels, you want the arms of the bar to be paralell to the ground. This isn't the easiest to do with a C-5, because the arms are pretty short.
What I suggest you do, is use the frames crossmembers as a visual reference, and get the middle of the bar(s) to be paralell to the crossmember. Then set the length of one link for the front so it easily sets into place, and match the length to the other. Do the same for the rear....
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
If you want to get the bars installed then set the new links to the same length as the stock links and bolt them up. You can do it np problem with the car on jack stands.
If you want to adjust the end links to change the pre-load then you need to do it with the car sitting on a level surface without jacking the car weight off the wheels.
I'd suggest you put it on the stands and install them. If you want to play with adjustments later you still have that option.
Peter
If you want to adjust the end links to change the pre-load then you need to do it with the car sitting on a level surface without jacking the car weight off the wheels.
I'd suggest you put it on the stands and install them. If you want to play with adjustments later you still have that option.
Peter