trk982003

Just installed my TSP 233/239 112lsa cam! (2000 coupe mn6) Well I installed it on an otherwise stock engine and tune and it is drivable, but needed a tune. That I knew. I went to the tuner today and got my dyno #s. He said the knock sensor was pulling timing and the fuel was lean. He corrected everything and the best pull was 309hp, 292 tq.The most timing he could run was 21* without KS interrupting. How bout that for a kick in the pants. He said the stock cats in 2000 were very restrictive, and they are rebuilt cats (LOoooooong story) he said to ditch the cats and you'll seethe improvement I'm looking for. I know about the MIL and everything thats all taken care of as far as cats. I'm just looking for some input from anyone about how dismal these numbers are, I'm borderline depressed about it. He showed me that Voulmetric Efficiency peaked around 4/5k rpm at about 73% then dropped as the RPM went higher. (PS please don't question my tuner's ability he's top notch, highly recommended and highly trusted)

DeltaBravo

WOW, I'm basically bone stock except for Z06 intake box/exhaust, K&N filter, and a 160 thermostat. My numbers are 312 RWHP and 328 RWTq. And, it's an A4 with 43K miles.

I wonder why you're numbers are so low with that cam, or any non-stock cam!

Dennis

0331MARINE

Somthing isnt adding up here....

ctusser

Hmmm,

Do you have a dyno graph? The new cam is going to want to make its peak power a bit higher than the stock one, did the tuner bump the rev limiter to a higher rpm to let the cam run out more? I trust you replaced the valve springs with heavier ones?

trk982003

I have a dyno graph but no way to post it its a piece of paper, its aweful to look at... Its reaching its peak arund 6300 rpm (rev limit moved to 6600), replaced valvesprings and pushrods, factory timing set (no adjustablility) i have an open air box with k&n and the open foglight screens, borla stinger cat-back. The car is tuned to its potential, i think he had be running 13.6 air/fuel (conservative its a street car). The timing is maxed without KS pulling timing. Compression is equal across the board around 175 psi. The cam isnt running out of RPM range, and the torque is crap! He suggested the cam timing could be ground retarded/advanced? How could i have missed that if thats the case? TSP didnt advertise it. I'll go check the cam card but even still everyone else who installed these cams have great results. I lined up the dots on the timing set it doesnt get much easier than that... I didnt degree the cam but i didn't see the need. Theres no way I could've installed a cam a tooth off. Can anyone see exhaust resrtiction being the factor? Like i said theyre re-builds. I'm about to hollow them out and try again but rather not if I dont have to. Thanks for the quick responses. Just my luck tho. Better me than have had somone else install it and be this upset

GM Fan

Did he indicate what a dead stock LS1/6spd typically puts down on his dyno? Could be a conservative reading dyno. Does the printout show if it is a Dynojet or Mustang Dyno? I've seen dead stock LS1s put down 285-290 rwhp before on more conservatively calibrated Dynojets, and I'm sure it could go even lower on a conservative mustang dyno. So it all really depends on what your before numbers would have been, which I presume you didn't ever get. I guess I could understand you only picking up 15-20 rwhp from a cam swap on a stock car though.

Guess now you found out why no one throws a cam in a near stock car... Look on the bright side though, now all the smaller intake/exhaust bolt ons you do will be worth that much more power since those stock parts will be bottlenecking you currently. I see headers/hi-flow cats and a LS6 intake in your future. Still going to be lower than average numbers for the mods it seems unless that truly was a pretty conservative reading dyno.

trk982003

I didnt find anything out by doing this, not a single thing. Not even why noone swaps a cam first, why not? Its the foundation of all supporting mods and makes the most sence to start with, for me at least because i have a lift and do my own work. I didnt have unobtainable goals however I did have GAINS in mind... He showed me an 03 vert A4 on HIS dyno ( dont know if its dynojet or mustang) 309hp 333tq. STOCK. The reason i didnt have a stock pull is because i thought all stock cars are, within reason, the same. I understand that stock parts will now be flowing at their limits, but their limits should be slightly above stock. (according to TSP's charts) If my base numbers were less than these than why would anyone... I'll stop myself from typing in anger there. But honestly anything less than that is stock Mustang GT area... I do see guys on the LS1tech forum running same cam and LT headers (granted I dont have those) above 360whp. It doesnt add up. The motors not tired. Brakes aren't dragging. Any input on the Voulmetric efficiency readings?

20vette0107fatboy

Well, i think it has something to do with his dyno. Get yourself some LT headers also. That will make a big diff. I dont know, sorry to here this. Does the car pull alot stonger then it did stock.

0331MARINE

I run a 237/242 112lsa .609 cam with full bolt ons. Before my FAST 92 swap I made 413rwhp at 5800rpm and 396rwtq at 4300rpm on 2 different dynojets. You can try the cats thing, but I think there is something wrong with his dyno.

jonnyc

did you get a baseline run before he started tuning.just wondering how much was gained with the tune.i think the dyno is reading wrong.i've never seen a cammed ls1 with that low of numbers.even if the cats aren't flowing right it should be higher
definately look at getting some lt's and x-pipe.you're loosing out on alot of power with stock manifolds.

trk982003

My initial pull was dangerous he let off at 3500rpm. It was runnin like 35*of timing and KS was pullin timining and was dangerously lean. It was inconclusive. All 3 pulls thereafter were within 5hp of eachother. I know what mods I need to do, but i still expected a gain. Now im gun shy of doing any other mods to this car. I dont know how his dyno could be messed up. I watched him tune a mustang bullitt before my car and he pulled 378rwhp. supercharged 4.6 with 2valve heads, and stock log manifolds. Those manifolds make LS1 manifolds look like shorty headers. I appreciate the input. I dont know what to do. How can i post this graph? The power below 5k rpm is at say a 45 degree slope and after that its like a 15* slope. I know its not an easy visualization. It does seem corked up but oh well it is what it is. Rippin out the cats and ill have him pull again. If it looks good i'll throw some headers on. I planned on boltons (heads, headers, intake) for next year but i cant live with these numbers. Maybe I should have a pull somewhere else? What gear do you MN6 guys have pulls done in?

ctusser

4th

jonnyc

take the best picture you can of the graph and then download the picture.or you can go to kinkos and scan it and send it to your email.

LuCkYSe7eN11

I have a stock 04 c5. I have LG LT headers and big 3 exhaust on the way. I hope I put down more then 309 or I will be pissed.

phils C5 vette

its not as much your tune as it would be your car is not breathing. The 2000 C5 has pre Cats and Cats. You have the LS1 intake, and a stock air bridge. Put a blackwing on it and headers and you'll gain 50 RWHP.

if the dyno was a mustang dyno, I found yesterday that they show a ugly 25-30 RWHP less than a dynocom.

JCamaro

Dirty MAF sensor? or IAT?

AU N EGL

those cats suck, stock headers suck, stock mufflers suck, dirty MAF, dirty Air filter,
LS1 Intake MAF all keep those numbers down.


Remember ONE addition does not make big results.

Combination of CAI, TB, LS6 intake or FAST92/92 combo, LTs high flow cats, X-pipe and low restrictive mufflers or straight pipes.

But the cost of all those are MORE then a NEW Crate LS6 motor which tuned will put down 385 RWHP with only a tune

trk982003

Thanks for the ideas guys. I cleaned te MAF last year, i didnt remove the stock screen though. Think its time? Its got a stock air bridge, CLEAN k&n filter with open air box lid, borla cat back. I understand it wouldn't make huge numbers, but it made worse than stock numbers. The torque curve is practicllay a straight line with a gentle curve but its under the 300 mark. I'll tryn post pics of it. The fact that he showd me a dyno graph of a stock car making better numbers on his dyno is what's got my pantys in a bunch. Thanks for the input. All the boltons are future mods thats why I started with the cam. I didnt expect magic by putting this cam in, but like i said I expected a gain. Thanks guys

AU N EGL

add up the costs of all the bolt ons.

an LS6 crate motor is $5900
http://sdparts.com/details/gm-perfor...parts/17801268

or LS2 crate is $6100
http://sdparts.com/details/gm-perfor...parts/19165484

ipuig

If in fact your air fuel ratio is at 13.6:1 that may be the problem. I had better results by running a little on the rich side (12.5:1) and adding more timing advance (26 - 27 deg).