***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!***
Le Mans Master
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From: Houston Texas
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09
Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (BatMobile)
Neill,
Is there ANY possibility that they sold you a wrecked car? It is a totally sweet ride but it HAD to have been pounded to develop those kinds of metal failures. It's hard to believe it would have made it out of the factory that way. Definitely the General's problem but I would just start talking lawsuit and having them pay all the taxes and transportation fees that got tacked on....have em give it ALL back.
Push em hard. That's what I say!
Snowman
[Modified by Snowman, 9:34 PM 3/25/2002]
Is there ANY possibility that they sold you a wrecked car? It is a totally sweet ride but it HAD to have been pounded to develop those kinds of metal failures. It's hard to believe it would have made it out of the factory that way. Definitely the General's problem but I would just start talking lawsuit and having them pay all the taxes and transportation fees that got tacked on....have em give it ALL back.
Push em hard. That's what I say!
Snowman
[Modified by Snowman, 9:34 PM 3/25/2002]
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'10-'11
Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (Snowman)
Snowman...the car was a Museum Delivery...typical Caves dealership thing...32 miles at time of delivery.
I can't see where the car would have been damaged.
I have hit the odd pothole here and there, but I can't see where it would be any worse then what others may encounter.
General is not getting off of the hook THAT easily...
Neill
I can't see where the car would have been damaged.
I have hit the odd pothole here and there, but I can't see where it would be any worse then what others may encounter.
General is not getting off of the hook THAT easily...
Neill
Le Mans Master
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From: Houston Texas
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09
Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (BatMobile)
Wow just totally hard to believe. TOTALLY!
Tell em you want a Z06 at the Cruisein this year as a replacement. Better than a Caddy for the burnout contest!!
Sorry you've got these kinds of troubles.
Doug
Tell em you want a Z06 at the Cruisein this year as a replacement. Better than a Caddy for the burnout contest!!
Sorry you've got these kinds of troubles.
Doug
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Spring TX USA
Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (BatMobile)
:eek: Those welds are terrible! :mad They look like some amateur exahust pipe welder was practicing on your suspension. :bb Get GM to get you a new Vette, that's just pitiful workmanship!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,112
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From: Sindelfingen Germany
Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (RedC5)
First of all I´m so sorry for you., but these things happen....everywhere
In looking at the welds I´m 100% with RedC5. The weldments are just bad as stated yesterday. Now the mayor problem lies in the frame. The cracks are so large that part of the frame maybe has to be completely changed. But that is really not your problem.
You made perfect pictures, specially when you did them before and after cleaning. IMO you got very good material for the next step: get GM to that car to have a look on and take care of. Just leave the car as it is, do not do anything on it, do not move it.
Here at our plant in Stuttgart we sometimes have some similar production problems. The way we handle it is to go to the customer, and when it´s far away we go by plane. Have a look on the car maybe with the customer and then decide a good repair or as we call it a correction. Correction in our terminology means, from durability aspect it is as good as it should leave the plant. Also GM must have a department called Global Service. Get one offical from there to your car. He should do the rest, not you. IMO GM will not hesitate if they get your pictures.
Keep your head up, we all are with you.
Frederik
[Modified by C5 Frederik, 9:21 AM 3/26/2002]
In looking at the welds I´m 100% with RedC5. The weldments are just bad as stated yesterday. Now the mayor problem lies in the frame. The cracks are so large that part of the frame maybe has to be completely changed. But that is really not your problem.
You made perfect pictures, specially when you did them before and after cleaning. IMO you got very good material for the next step: get GM to that car to have a look on and take care of. Just leave the car as it is, do not do anything on it, do not move it.
Here at our plant in Stuttgart we sometimes have some similar production problems. The way we handle it is to go to the customer, and when it´s far away we go by plane. Have a look on the car maybe with the customer and then decide a good repair or as we call it a correction. Correction in our terminology means, from durability aspect it is as good as it should leave the plant. Also GM must have a department called Global Service. Get one offical from there to your car. He should do the rest, not you. IMO GM will not hesitate if they get your pictures.
Keep your head up, we all are with you.
Frederik
[Modified by C5 Frederik, 9:21 AM 3/26/2002]
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Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (BatMobile)
SORRY TO SEE THIS BAT!!!!!!!!!
I do all kinds of NDT including welds & perform failure audits.........As previously stated, there is definetly a weld penetration issue and a complete lack of fusion in a few spots. Could have been bad filler metal, frame base metal, poor workmanship or any combination there of. Gotta see it hands on to tell .
I doubt the plant pulls any supplier frames out to do any QA on these types of areas...........but they may now.
The General should handle this one, but being currently screwed by GMC on my P/U, they will probably tell you the salt environment contributed to the catastrophic failure. :rolleyes: Bull&*%$ of course.
Just like our 92' RS Camaro. Wife was pulling out of the parking spot at the dentist office and the whole DS front wheel came off!!!!!!!! Total spindle nut failure @ 27K miles. :eek: She had just gotten off the interstate doing 70 mph + . GM took care of things after a fight of 3 months.
Stay on them Bro. At least you were not taking a turn @ 60mph + when it happened.
:yesnod:
I do all kinds of NDT including welds & perform failure audits.........As previously stated, there is definetly a weld penetration issue and a complete lack of fusion in a few spots. Could have been bad filler metal, frame base metal, poor workmanship or any combination there of. Gotta see it hands on to tell .
I doubt the plant pulls any supplier frames out to do any QA on these types of areas...........but they may now.
The General should handle this one, but being currently screwed by GMC on my P/U, they will probably tell you the salt environment contributed to the catastrophic failure. :rolleyes: Bull&*%$ of course.
Just like our 92' RS Camaro. Wife was pulling out of the parking spot at the dentist office and the whole DS front wheel came off!!!!!!!! Total spindle nut failure @ 27K miles. :eek: She had just gotten off the interstate doing 70 mph + . GM took care of things after a fight of 3 months.
Stay on them Bro. At least you were not taking a turn @ 60mph + when it happened.
:yesnod:
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Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (2manycars)
The really scary part of this is as RedC5 said, these types of incidents rarely affect a single car. Don't know what type of quality control data GM takes on the welding process, but they better had be pulling the data for a period of time before/after your car was built, and if necessary finding owners and inspecting cars.
Joe (RedC5) - is there anything the non-metallurgical engineers out there can take a look at on our cars to give ourselves some confidence that our cars will not have a similar failure. I will be at Road America in April, and the prospect of a suspension bracket failure at 150 mph isn't too appealing :nonod:
Joe (RedC5) - is there anything the non-metallurgical engineers out there can take a look at on our cars to give ourselves some confidence that our cars will not have a similar failure. I will be at Road America in April, and the prospect of a suspension bracket failure at 150 mph isn't too appealing :nonod:
Race Director
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From: Florida
Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (ALLTHROTTLE&NOBOTTLE)
The General should handle this one, but being currently screwed by GMC on my P/U, they will probably tell you the salt environment contributed to the catastrophic failure. :rolleyes: Bull&*%$ of course.
Question for the welding gurus: those look to me like hand welds as opposed to machine MIG beads. Is it possible that this is a manual process? If it IS a machine process, then Bowling Green has got a BIG problem. And so do the customers.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Sindelfingen Germany
Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (TTRotary)
Question for the welding gurus: those look to me like hand welds as opposed to machine MIG beads. Is it possible that this is a manual process? If it IS a machine process, then Bowling Green has got a BIG problem. And so do the customers.
Frederik
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From: Downingtown PA
Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (BatMobile)
As others have said, it's just fortunate that it didn't cause a serious wreck. This looks liike a golden opportunity for GM to do the right thing and get you a new car. Personally, I would never be confident that a repair was an adequate fix. It's no fun driving a car when you're constantly wondering when and where it will break again. Here's a crazy thought: Does anybody have Bob Lutz's email address? He should see this thread. Best of luck. We'll all be looking for a "happy ending" on this one!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: Rochester Hills Michigan
Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (70L46)
Joe (RedC5) - is there anything the non-metallurgical engineers out there can take a look at on our cars to give ourselves some confidence that our cars will not have a similar failure. I will be at Road America in April, and the prospect of a suspension bracket failure at 150 mph isn't too appealing :nonod:
It's very very difficult if not impossible to determine if an arc weld is sufficient by a topside visual or other methods for that matter....as far as root penetration....you need to section it which of course is impossible. The next best thing to do is inspect visually after cleaning and look for signs of early fatigue or a flat out non-bonded weld as Neill's top left weld. The lack of penetration will usually show a crack in the center of the weld and usually will start from the start of the weld (not the rounded crater side end ...opposite to it). The start has the least penetration (that is is they crater the end right!) and stress raiser from the edge. This is your best bet....but it is not fullproof as I have reviewed thousands of welds in my life and sometimes root cracks are hidden, and don't come to the surface, and are exposed by sectioning only.
Maybe instead of going to the bars with the C5 group, we need a "Weld Inspection" get-together ! I can get some dye penetrant check (kit for crack inspection)or a portable magnaflux (also for cracks) and we can inspect the crap out of our rides! :crazy: :lol:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: Rochester Hills Michigan
Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (TTRotary)
Question for the welding gurus: those look to me like hand welds as opposed to machine MIG beads. Is it possible that this is a manual process? If it IS a machine process, then Bowling Green has got a BIG problem. And so do the customers.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 434
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From: Clermont FL
Re: ***[WARNING] BROKEN SUSPENSION!!*** (RedC5)
Question for BatMobile - Do you know how the car was shipped into Nassau? did the car come into Nassau on a roll on roll off ship or was it off loaded from the ship's deck with a crane? Having dealt with Shipping Ports in the Carribean, those dock workers sometimes like to see how far a car will bounce from a dead drop, especially a nice car. Just a thought.
Good Luck with the fix
Good Luck with the fix