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C5 from Twilight Zone - Long Winded

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Old Dec 18, 2010 | 09:24 PM
  #1  
Harry Bilgewater's Avatar
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Default C5 from Twilight Zone - Long Winded

In Jan of 2006 I bought my C5 used with 28,000 miles from a seller in Miami, Florida. It had a few problems which appeared shortly after driving away (the Hazard Switch failure causing turn signal loss and the left front headlamp plastic gear failure).

About five months later it threw the infamous Active Handling, Traction Control System, and ABS failure notice. I reset the code for the failure and drove on. Eventually I took it to the shop. After the rough estimate was provided I decided I could reset the code given it was not all that frequent. I tried the usual recommended checks, grounding connectors etc but the TCS code kept returning intermittently after turning the car off and restarting while the engine was hot. It rarely occurred when temperatures were below 50 degrees F. 90 degrees F and you could expect a visit from the code fairy.

About six months later the fuel gauge suddenly dropped to zero. Threw a nice code for that fault. Again checked the forum here for hints but all my efforts were for naught. It was time to cough up some moldy old greenbacks for the dealer. The first thing the dealer did was to replace both fuel sensors. Picked the car up with it indicating 3/4 tanks of gas. Drove around for a couple of days. Oddly the fuel level did not change after driving over 90 miles. Stopped at a gas station and it took 15.9 gallons of gas to fill the tank. That was close.

Back to the dealer. After a week of them scratching their heads they produced a TSB indicating that the replacement fuel sensor in the right tank may experience mechanical interference with the old tank. Solution? Replace the right side fuel tank. Now being something of a tightwad, I was not thrilled with the latest estimate of $1100.00 to replace a fuel tank which had previously worked fine until the sensor was replaced. Best explanation was that the sensor design had changed and in about half of the Vettes replacing the sensor meant replacing the tank. I decided I would use the trip odometer as the metric to determine when I needed to refuel. On the way home the gas gauge went to zero again. I will not regale you with the expletive laden commentary about the incestous relationship of the dealers mechanics.

So I continued to drive the Vette and tolerated the oddities.

Last week the Vette instument panel lit up like an AC-130 gunship after being hit by AAA. There were mutliple error messages on the DIC, from "Loss of Comms" failures to various Control Module failures to "Reduced Engine Power" warnings. The HVAC panel wonked out, the car radio went off to parts unknown. The head lights popped up. It was as if the car was possessed.

Pulling into a "Kiss and Ride" parking lot I checked things but could not initially identify any specific thing that triggered all this. Finally checking the battery revealed the voltage was 11.4 volts which clearly meant time for another battery. Replaced the battery. The starter would not turn over. Checked the new battery and it was ok. Oddly the Remote Keyless Entry system was intermittent, the windows would not operate, the car radio made only a garbled noise, and the only sound from the starter was a click when turning the ignition key.

Finally decided I had to have it towed to a shop. The shop called after three days and said they needed to replace the starter. Next evening they called again to tell me the starter had allowed them to start the car but they needed to replace the EBCM and BPMV as they had noted the Active Handling Error Codes. They also told me that in addition to the current $1300.00 bill for the starter replacement the parts and labor to service the TCS, AH, ABS system would be $3800.00 extra. GULP!

I stopped the repairs with the starter.

Now the TWILIGHT ZONE!

The drive from the shop back to my home was 75 miles. Prior to having the starter serviced I would have experienced the gas gauge going to zero at least once in that distance and after that length of drive the TCS would have thrown an error code for the AH/TCS/ABS. Yet neither occurred.

So my question is:

Can a starter on a C5 cause TCS codes to be thrown and the infamous gas gauge going to zero problem?

I assume the battery failed and the loss of filtering of the power to the computer modules caused all the other squirrely error codes on the DIC.
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Old Dec 18, 2010 | 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Harry Bilgewater
In Jan of 2006 I bought my C5 used with 28,000 miles from a seller in Miami, Florida. It had a few problems which appeared shortly after driving away (the Hazard Switch failure causing turn signal loss and the left front headlamp plastic gear failure).

About five months later it threw the infamous Active Handling, Traction Control System, and ABS failure notice. I reset the code for the failure and drove on. Eventually I took it to the shop. After the rough estimate was provided I decided I could reset the code given it was not all that frequent. I tried the usual recommended checks, grounding connectors etc but the TCS code kept returning intermittently after turning the car off and restarting while the engine was hot. It rarely occurred when temperatures were below 50 degrees F. 90 degrees F and you could expect a visit from the code fairy.

About six months later the fuel gauge suddenly dropped to zero. Threw a nice code for that fault. Again checked the forum here for hints but all my efforts were for naught. It was time to cough up some moldy old greenbacks for the dealer. The first thing the dealer did was to replace both fuel sensors. Picked the car up with it indicating 3/4 tanks of gas. Drove around for a couple of days. Oddly the fuel level did not change after driving over 90 miles. Stopped at a gas station and it took 15.9 gallons of gas to fill the tank. That was close.

Back to the dealer. After a week of them scratching their heads they produced a TSB indicating that the replacement fuel sensor in the right tank may experience mechanical interference with the old tank. Solution? Replace the right side fuel tank. Now being something of a tightwad, I was not thrilled with the latest estimate of $1100.00 to replace a fuel tank which had previously worked fine until the sensor was replaced. Best explanation was that the sensor design had changed and in about half of the Vettes replacing the sensor meant replacing the tank. I decided I would use the trip odometer as the metric to determine when I needed to refuel. On the way home the gas gauge went to zero again. I will not regale you with the expletive laden commentary about the incestous relationship of the dealers mechanics.

So I continued to drive the Vette and tolerated the oddities.

Last week the Vette instument panel lit up like an AC-130 gunship after being hit by AAA. There were mutliple error messages on the DIC, from "Loss of Comms" failures to various Control Module failures to "Reduced Engine Power" warnings. The HVAC panel wonked out, the car radio went off to parts unknown. The head lights popped up. It was as if the car was possessed.

Pulling into a "Kiss and Ride" parking lot I checked things but could not initially identify any specific thing that triggered all this. Finally checking the battery revealed the voltage was 11.4 volts which clearly meant time for another battery. Replaced the battery. The starter would not turn over. Checked the new battery and it was ok. Oddly the Remote Keyless Entry system was intermittent, the windows would not operate, the car radio made only a garbled noise, and the only sound from the starter was a click when turning the ignition key.

Finally decided I had to have it towed to a shop. The shop called after three days and said they needed to replace the starter. Next evening they called again to tell me the starter had allowed them to start the car but they needed to replace the EBCM and BPMV as they had noted the Active Handling Error Codes. They also told me that in addition to the current $1300.00 bill for the starter replacement the parts and labor to service the TCS, AH, ABS system would be $3800.00 extra. GULP!

I stopped the repairs with the starter.

Now the TWILIGHT ZONE!

The drive from the shop back to my home was 75 miles. Prior to having the starter serviced I would have experienced the gas gauge going to zero at least once in that distance and after that length of drive the TCS would have thrown an error code for the AH/TCS/ABS. Yet neither occurred.

So my question is:

Can a starter on a C5 cause TCS codes to be thrown and the infamous gas gauge going to zero problem?

I assume the battery failed and the loss of filtering of the power to the computer modules caused all the other squirrely error codes on the DIC.

The answer to your question is..no.
Perhaps the mechanic changing the starter noticed G106 was loose, and tightened it up......it's right above the starter, on the engine block.
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Old Dec 19, 2010 | 12:49 AM
  #3  
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The main power lead from the battery goes a power stud on the starter and then there are some power leads taken from the same power stud. So, the only function the starter has to perform is to work as a power connection stud once the motor is running.

It sounds like you've run into parts changers instead of mechanics. These people don't bother actually diagnosing anything but they rather just change parts until the problem goes away. Well, they hope the problem goes away. When it's a ground issue or wiring problem such as a bad connector in the harness the problem will never get fixed. They don't care though, after all, it's your money not theirs.

I agree with lucky, it sounds like there was a loose ground issue. Who knows, even your starter might have been OK.

Peter
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Old Dec 19, 2010 | 11:45 AM
  #4  
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...About six months later the fuel gauge suddenly dropped to zero.
That sounds like the typical sending unit/switch thingie in the tank being gummed up, which is common with the C5. Ordinarily a few treatments of Techron Plus concentrate in the gas tank will cure that, if you hadn't already tried it (worked for me). Some particularly stubborn sending units have been known to be cured with SeaFoam in the tank when Techron doesn't do the trick.
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