C5 Tech Corvette Tech/Performance: LS1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Tech Topics, Basic Tech, Maintenance, How to Remove & Replace
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Is my engine toast?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 24, 2011 | 08:52 PM
  #1  
uLs1a's Avatar
uLs1a
Thread Starter
Instructor
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere
Default Is my engine toast?

Back in September I was driving from my parents house to my apartment, around 110 miles. Roughly 25 miles into my trip back to my apartment, I see fluid spraying out from under my hood. I pull over thinking it was my water pump. I get the car towed to my cousins house and change the pump. The next day, I finish the drive but my car would not go below 210*. I would drive for about 10 miles and then shut her down when she was getting hot.The hottest I would let her get was 240*, I took me alittle over 8 hrs to finish the trip.

I think took it to a local mechanic, who diagnosed the problem as a blown head gasket. They quoted my $2,600 to take the head off, replace the gasket and get the head tested and install it. I figured this would be a good chance to do a small heads and cam swap.This is the list of modifcations I did:

-LS2 243 heads with Comp Cams 918 Valve Springs
-EPS 222?226 .596/.598 114 Cam
-LS2 Timing Chain and Gears
-GM LS6 Oil Pump
-Comp Cams 7.425" Pushrods (I asked Patrick G which pushrods to run since he spec'd the cam, he said this length)
-Truck Starter
-Then all your typical gaskets and bolts
-NGK TR55 Spark Plugs

I am up at school so I did the swap when I can and had all the tools. I had a memeber from here help my pull the cam and re-install the new cam . The oil pump was installed fine, I did not pinch the o-ring. I got the car back together and it was very difficult to start. When I was able to get it started, it idled great with no issues. After the first start up, I noticed my drivers side catalytic converter was glowing bright orange and I heard popping (back firing?). I quickly shut the car off. A few hours later, I started the car again and tried to drive it. It started fine, I put it in drive and gave it gas, I was about 2 feet out of my parking spot before it stutard and stalled. I restarted the car and put it in reverse and it barely ran. With the car off and with the foot off the break, you can put the shifter into any gear. People suggest that the transmission linkage was messaed up.

During this time I was in finals and had an unexpected death in the family. From the time it stalled to the next time I was able to work on it again, it was about a month. I was able to get it started and idling good, but whenever I would give it and amount of gas it would die. At this point I contacted a shop about tuning, because I just tought it was running rich. They told me to unplug the MAF and see if it would run. I unplugged the MAF and it wouldnt even turn over. It wouldnt even turn over with the MAF installed. It would take about 6-10 times of cranking it before it started. When it did, it wouldnt idle at all. I could rev it, but after a few seconds it would die. I would repeat the process and I would get the same outcome.

This past weekend I pulled the drivers side sparl plugs and they were fouled and soaked with fuel. Looking under the car, I noticed that oil was leaking in a small amount. I contacted the shop again today and their suggestion was to rebuild the motor and to do a compression test on my current set up. They also said that running the car for that long of a time running that hot, will do or did damage to the engine.

I apologize for such a long thread, but any suggestions?

My car is an A4 1998 Z28 with 111,5xx miles.

Here are some thread about my issue:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...r-heating.html
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/wester...ad-gasket.html
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...catalytic.html
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...ve-issues.html

This was a video I got of the car last weekend, before I pulled the plugs

Last edited by uLs1a; Jan 28, 2011 at 01:11 AM.
Reply
Old Jan 24, 2011 | 08:59 PM
  #2  
uLs1a's Avatar
uLs1a
Thread Starter
Instructor
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere
Default

I know this is a Corvette forum and I have a Camaro, but since the engines are the same Im hoping for some advice.
Reply
Old Jan 24, 2011 | 09:04 PM
  #3  
Jnape's Avatar
Jnape
Burning Brakes
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 983
Likes: 36
From: Middle Of Kali CA
Default

210-240 deg on a c5 is a bit on the hot side BUT is not overheating the engine. The computer sees overheating at 265 deg before it takes action to help you from doing damage. Your mechanic is a CROOK and you need to find a good CORVETTE shop that has a clue at least.
Reply
Old Jan 24, 2011 | 09:34 PM
  #4  
dgrant3830's Avatar
dgrant3830
Tech Contributor
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 29
From: Van Buren Arkansas
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
Default

You will need to start with the basics of an engine. Do a compression test on each cylinder.
Reply
Old Jan 24, 2011 | 09:59 PM
  #5  
Fastguy's Avatar
Fastguy
Team Owner
25 Year Member
Conversation Starter
All Eyes On Me
Liked
 
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 26,679
Likes: 17
From: This vette goes to 11 Milford MA
St. Jude Donor '03-'05
Default

Plugs soaked with fuel almost sounds like a bad crank position sensor or cam sensor. Do you have a code reader? Does the oil smell like fuel?
Reply
Old Jan 24, 2011 | 10:16 PM
  #6  
uLs1a's Avatar
uLs1a
Thread Starter
Instructor
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere
Default

Originally Posted by Fastguy
Plugs soaked with fuel almost sounds like a bad crank position sensor or cam sensor. Do you have a code reader? Does the oil smell like fuel?
I do have a code reader. I have not smelled the oil yet, but whenever I can get the car started all I do is smell gas fumes. Yesterday when I tried cranking it, I would get white smoke coming from the exhaust.
Reply
Old Jan 24, 2011 | 11:59 PM
  #7  
Millenium Z06's Avatar
Millenium Z06
Moderator
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 22,605
Likes: 939
Default

Originally Posted by uLs1a
I do have a code reader. I have not smelled the oil yet, but whenever I can get the car started all I do is smell gas fumes. Yesterday when I tried cranking it, I would get white smoke coming from the exhaust.
White smoke from the exhaust is either steam (head gasket or cracked head) or oil leak into the cylinders.
Reply
Old Jan 25, 2011 | 12:11 AM
  #8  
0331MARINE's Avatar
0331MARINE
Safety Car
Supporting Member
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,903
Likes: 1
From: You know your drunk when you swerve to miss the tree then you realize its your air freshener! Covington Ga
Default

Hey your not far from me. PM me your number and I will try to come down and check it out this weekend if you want.
Reply
Corvette Stories

The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts

story-0

5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2

 Michael S. Palmer
story-1

2027 Corvette vs The World: Every C8 vs Its Closest Competitor

 Joe Kucinski
story-2

10 Most Common Corvette Problems of the Last 20 Years!

 Joe Kucinski
story-3

5 MOST and 5 LEAST Popular Corvette Model Years in History!

 Joe Kucinski
story-4

2027 Corvette Buyer's Guide: Everything You Need to Know!

 Joe Kucinski
story-5

10 Things C8 Corvette Owners Hate (But Won't Tell You)

 Joe Kucinski
story-6

10 Best Corvettes Coming to Barrett-Jackson Palm Beach 2026!

 Brett Foote
story-7

Every Corvette Grand Sport Explained! (C2, C4, C6, C7, & C8)

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

Grand Sport & Grand Sport X Launch Alongside All-New 535hp LS6 V8!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-9

5 Reasons Bad Drivers Crash & 5 Ways to Avoid a Costly Mistake!

 Joe Kucinski
Old Jan 25, 2011 | 12:41 AM
  #9  
uLs1a's Avatar
uLs1a
Thread Starter
Instructor
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere
Default

Originally Posted by 0331MARINE
Hey your not far from me. PM me your number and I will try to come down and check it out this weekend if you want.
Im actually in Azusa right now.

I did some research on camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor and Im thinking that it might be one of those. I will be doing more research on those this week.
Reply
Old Jan 25, 2011 | 12:48 AM
  #10  
0331MARINE's Avatar
0331MARINE
Safety Car
Supporting Member
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,903
Likes: 1
From: You know your drunk when you swerve to miss the tree then you realize its your air freshener! Covington Ga
Default

Originally Posted by uLs1a
Im actually in Azusa right now.

I did some research on camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor and Im thinking that it might be one of those. I will be doing more research on those this week.
Well dang, I thought I had something to do this weekend.
Reply
Old Jan 25, 2011 | 08:43 PM
  #11  
Bill Curlee's Avatar
Bill Curlee
Tech Contributor
Supporting Lifetime Gold
Veteran: Navy
25 Year Member
Liked
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Default

When you said that the mechanic said you had a blown head gasket, I would have turned around and beat feet.

FIND ANOTHER SHOP!!!!!!! Your being seriously ripped off! Find a locak shop that understands LS engines if you have to take it to a shop. READ AND POST the DTCs

Your just parts swapping till you know what DTCs are giving you and issue. Your car is going to run like crap till you get a proper tuneMore compression, bigger CAM.

Post those DTC and lets see whwew were at.

BC
Reply
Old Jan 25, 2011 | 09:34 PM
  #12  
uLs1a's Avatar
uLs1a
Thread Starter
Instructor
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere
Default

Then only code that has ever been thrown since I finished the heads/cam was P1635
Reply
Old Jan 25, 2011 | 10:24 PM
  #13  
cruisemon's Avatar
cruisemon
Melting Slicks
25 Year Member
Conversation Starter
All Eyes On Me
 
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 4
From: Brentwood TN
Default

I'll dig out my manual, but I think P1635 has something to do with a 5vdc reference voltage or the MAP or something. I'm really leery of the "mechanic" that diagnosed the blown head gasket.

Charlie
Reply
Old Jan 25, 2011 | 11:12 PM
  #14  
RedRiderZR1's Avatar
RedRiderZR1
Drifting
20 Year Member
Conversation Starter
All Eyes On Me
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 66
From: SoCal
Default

Info on your code http://www.gearchatter.com/viewtopic9428.php
PCM pinouts http://www.chevythunder.com/199798_ls1_pcm_pinouts.htm

Last edited by RedRiderZR1; Jan 25, 2011 at 11:17 PM.
Reply
Old Jan 25, 2011 | 11:23 PM
  #15  
lucky131969's Avatar
lucky131969
Tech Contributor
15 Year Member
Active Streak: 30 Days
Community Builder
Liked
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,273
Likes: 1,103
From: Dyer, IN
Default

Originally Posted by uLs1a
Then only code that has ever been thrown since I finished the heads/cam was P1635
Check G107, at the back of the left head. There should be two wires grounded there.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...e-grounds.html


A P1635 could be a result of damaged wiring, and it will cause the engine to run like crap. Is the code current?
Reply
Old Jan 26, 2011 | 03:59 PM
  #16  
uLs1a's Avatar
uLs1a
Thread Starter
Instructor
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere
Default

This weekend I will check out the connections on everything and I will report what I find and I will scan the car again for codes
Reply
Old Jan 26, 2011 | 04:40 PM
  #17  
SoDiezl350's Avatar
SoDiezl350
Burning Brakes
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 835
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles CA
Default

The glowing cat and the stalling is because the cat is clogged. The fact that your spark plugs are fouled further supports this notion. Cut the pipe at the cat and see if the car still won't start.
Reply

Get notified of new replies

To Is my engine toast?

Old Jan 26, 2011 | 04:56 PM
  #18  
lucky131969's Avatar
lucky131969
Tech Contributor
15 Year Member
Active Streak: 30 Days
Community Builder
Liked
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,273
Likes: 1,103
From: Dyer, IN
Default

Originally Posted by SoDiezl350
The glowing cat and the stalling is because the cat is clogged. The fact that your spark plugs are fouled further supports this notion. Cut the pipe at the cat and see if the car still won't start.
Whoa there Nelly....just because the cat is glowing, does not mean it's clogged......so cutting the exhaust is a little extreme. The OP has a whole bank that sounds like it is not firing, or firing randomly. If this is the case, he may just be dumping fuel into the left cat....and that will make it glow for sure.
Reply
Old Jan 26, 2011 | 05:21 PM
  #19  
SoDiezl350's Avatar
SoDiezl350
Burning Brakes
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 835
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles CA
Default

Originally Posted by lucky131969
Whoa there Nelly....just because the cat is glowing, does not mean it's clogged......so cutting the exhaust is a little extreme. The OP has a whole bank that sounds like it is not firing, or firing randomly. If this is the case, he may just be dumping fuel into the left cat....and that will make it glow for sure.
You're right. Unburned fuel can cause the cat to glow as well. My experience is that this condition will very quickly melt the substrate inside the cat to the point where it clogs within minutes of begining to glow.

The fact that the engine is having trouble starting and dies when any load is applied to it either suggest what you said, which is there is an ignition problem or that there is excess back pressure in the exhaust system preventing exhaust gasses from escaping thus preventing intake air from entering.

He claims the car once started idles well. I've never unplugged a spark plug wire on the LS1, but on some of the V6s I've worked on, you can definitely tell if a spark plug isn't firing. The v8 most likely masks it better but if a cylinder isn't firing, the ECU will typically lean out the other cylinders causing only 1 spark plug to be fouled. I think he said that all of them were soaking in fuel.

If however the cat is clogged, the motor will see a lean condition due to too much oxygen in the exhaust and begin dumping fuel further propagating the problem.

I figure cutting the pipe before the cat will at least save his cat or tell him if it is in fact clogged. With 110k on the odo, it sounds like the time when cats fail and it's not that hard to weld back together or put a clamp on temporarily.

Like others have said, checking the compression is essential to determining if there is a problem with the motor itself. If it comes out low, then it's possible the motor isn't firing due to lack of compression. If the compression comes out good, a leak down test might be worthwhile, but odds are that will be fine since he just put new heads on the car. An interesting thing to note however is that usually you don't suddenly get low compression in an entire bank of cylinders unless the head gasket was completely botched during installation. If all his driver's side plugs are soaked in fuel than that would mean he isn't getting ignition in all 4 cylinders, if this was due to low compression I would guess the car wouldn't start at all.

About a year ago I had the exact same problem on my Alfa. Car was stalling randomly, plugs were doused in fuel but the O2 sensors kept reading lean. Turned out the cat was bad. Might not be the case here, but it's something that shouldn't be ruled out.

Last edited by SoDiezl350; Jan 26, 2011 at 05:42 PM.
Reply
Old Jan 26, 2011 | 07:17 PM
  #20  
uLs1a's Avatar
uLs1a
Thread Starter
Instructor
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere
Default

What is the typical compression for our motors? I have another stock cat that I will replace.

Last edited by uLs1a; Jan 26, 2011 at 07:41 PM.
Reply



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:52 PM.

story-0
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2

Slideshow: Should you buy a 2020-2026 Corvette or wait for 2027?

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-22 10:08:58


VIEW MORE
story-1
2027 Corvette vs The World: Every C8 vs Its Closest Competitor

Slideshow: 2027 Corvette lineup vs the world.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-24 16:12:42


VIEW MORE
story-2
10 Most Common Corvette Problems of the Last 20 Years!

Slideshow: 10 major Corvette problems from the last 20 years.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-14 16:37:05


VIEW MORE
story-3
5 MOST and 5 LEAST Popular Corvette Model Years in History!

Slideshow: 5 most and least popular Corvette model years.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-08 13:25:01


VIEW MORE
story-4
2027 Corvette Buyer's Guide: Everything You Need to Know!

Slideshow: 2027 Corvette buyer's guide

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-17 16:41:08


VIEW MORE
story-5
10 Things C8 Corvette Owners Hate (But Won't Tell You)

Slideshow: 10 things C8 Corvette owners hate, but won't tell you.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-01 18:36:07


VIEW MORE
story-6
10 Best Corvettes Coming to Barrett-Jackson Palm Beach 2026!

Slideshow: Should you add one of these incredible Corvettes to your garage?

By Brett Foote | 2026-04-01 18:14:05


VIEW MORE
story-7
Every Corvette Grand Sport Explained! (C2, C4, C6, C7, & C8)

Slideshow: Every Corvette Grand Sport explained

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-03-26 07:13:44


VIEW MORE
story-8
Grand Sport & Grand Sport X Launch Alongside All-New 535hp LS6 V8!

Slideshow: Breaking down the 2027 Grand Sport, Grand Sport X, Stingray, and LS6 V8.

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-03-26 13:48:45


VIEW MORE
story-9
5 Reasons Bad Drivers Crash & 5 Ways to Avoid a Costly Mistake!

Slideshow: 5 reasons bad drivers crash sports cars & 5 ways to avoid a costly shame!

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-03-25 16:32:55


VIEW MORE