Advice needed in dealing with a shop
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 48
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From: Madison AL
Advice needed in dealing with a shop
I picked up my car today from the shop after they bled the clutch. The grind/clanking noise is still there, but the shop owner says that the problem is the torque tube and not the new clutch kit they installed a month and a half ago. I drove it home and I swear it sounds like the throwout bearing is falling apart. Sometimes when I push the clutch in, I can hear something spinning and clanking around. Do I take it back to him and demand they drop the drivetrain and check it out or do I go to someone else that knows more about Vettes? I would work on it myself, but I need a lift. I'm not as young as I used to be.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,722
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From: Florida
St. Jude Donor '09
The most likely cause of the noise is relaitively easy to isolate. With the car in neutral and the clutch engaged the complete drive line up to and including the transmission input shaft is rotating along with the engine. If you can hear the noise at this point the most likely culprit is somwhere in the TT.
With the clutch pedal depressed, the torque tube shaft no longer rotates. Now there is relative rotation between the TT input shaft and the pilot bearing and the slave cylinder release bearing. The release bearing is now riding against the pressure plate diaphragm spring actuating fingers. If the noise is most pronounced with the clutch pedal depressed, the release bearing and or the pilot bearing are your most likeky causes for the noise.
I use the term most likely because you will not be able to determine the actual problem until the drive line is dropped and a visual inspection reveals the failed component. Good luck.
BTW what type of clutch did the shop install?
With the clutch pedal depressed, the torque tube shaft no longer rotates. Now there is relative rotation between the TT input shaft and the pilot bearing and the slave cylinder release bearing. The release bearing is now riding against the pressure plate diaphragm spring actuating fingers. If the noise is most pronounced with the clutch pedal depressed, the release bearing and or the pilot bearing are your most likeky causes for the noise.
I use the term most likely because you will not be able to determine the actual problem until the drive line is dropped and a visual inspection reveals the failed component. Good luck.
BTW what type of clutch did the shop install?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Noise is NOT good!! Have them drop the inspection plate and see if you can localize the noise better. Sounds like there not going to be very helpful. Let us know how it turns out.BC
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 48
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From: Madison AL
They installed a Rhino clutch kit. I feel like they should drop the drivetrain and make sure the clutch is not the problem. I really feel that it's a throw out or pilot bearing issue. I'm going to see if I can convince them to inspect it on Monday. I'll let you guys know what happens.
Last edited by scooby99; Jan 29, 2011 at 11:02 PM.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Madison AL
After doing some research on clutch problems, I believe that I am experiencing Step 3 from the following article. Has anyone else had this problem? Could the new Rhino pilot bearing have defective?
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cata...wers_here.html
If the problem is noise coming from the clutch system, a simple test can identify the source of the noise before you tear into the system. There are two potential bearing-noise makers in the clutch system-the release bearing and the pilot bearing. To determine which one, if either, is making the noise follow these steps:
Step 1 With the engine running and the transmission in neutral, if the noise occurs it is in the transmission, most likely the front bearing supporting the input shaft.
Step 2 If that is not the problem, place your foot on the clutch pedal and begin to depress the pedal. If you begin to hear the noise at this point, the problem is the clutch release bearing. If not, proceed to the next step.
Step 3 Push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor. If you hear the noise at this point it is the pilot bearing or bushing. If you do not hear any noise during this test, the problem is not in the clutch system. Identifying these conditions early before removing and replacing the components goes a long way toward preventing a recurrence of the problem.
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cata...wers_here.html
If the problem is noise coming from the clutch system, a simple test can identify the source of the noise before you tear into the system. There are two potential bearing-noise makers in the clutch system-the release bearing and the pilot bearing. To determine which one, if either, is making the noise follow these steps:
Step 1 With the engine running and the transmission in neutral, if the noise occurs it is in the transmission, most likely the front bearing supporting the input shaft.
Step 2 If that is not the problem, place your foot on the clutch pedal and begin to depress the pedal. If you begin to hear the noise at this point, the problem is the clutch release bearing. If not, proceed to the next step.
Step 3 Push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor. If you hear the noise at this point it is the pilot bearing or bushing. If you do not hear any noise during this test, the problem is not in the clutch system. Identifying these conditions early before removing and replacing the components goes a long way toward preventing a recurrence of the problem.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 165
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From: Orlando Florida
With the clutch pedal pressed in and the transmission in neutral the torque tube doesnt rotate. With that said, if the sound occurs under those conditions then theres a very good chance that it isnt the torque tube.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 48
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From: Madison AL
Took the car to another shop and they found the problem to be a torn up pilot bearing. All the needle bearings were gone and the tip of the input shaft was getting all marred up. The pilot bearing was in too bad of shape to determine if it was from the newly installed clutch kit from the other shop or the original GM bearing. They are replacing the pilot bearing, input shaft and front bearing. These guys know what they are doing, but I still think the other shop should help pay for this. Has anyone else had to deal with this kind of situation before?
Thanks,
Sam
Thanks,
Sam
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Sam
I would consider small claims court but, you will have to build a case to prove they were negligent. Go talk to them with the evidence/smoking gun and see what they have to remedy the problem.
I would consider small claims court but, you will have to build a case to prove they were negligent. Go talk to them with the evidence/smoking gun and see what they have to remedy the problem.
Last edited by Bill Curlee; Feb 11, 2011 at 09:27 AM.
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Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 48
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From: Madison AL
Latest update - small claims court
My car is finally fixed and of course the shop that put the pilot bearing in backwards refuses to pay the bill from the other shop. Looks like we will be going to small claims court. Does anyone have any experience with this?
Thanks,
Sam
Thanks,
Sam
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
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From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Does your original paperwork (bill) from the first shop show that they replaced the pilot bearing ?
Did you take pictures showing that is was installed incorrectly ?
Is the mechanic who made the repair willing to go to court and testify on your behalf ?
If you have all (3) of the above evidential items, you might be able to win your case. Without it, you don't have a chance.
Tech Contributor
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
SAM
Yes and NO!
This is what I can tell you. I took a woman to Small Claims Court for damaging my 02 ZO6. The case was accepted. When its accepted, it is PUBLIC DOMAIN.
When it goes public, Peoples Court, Judge Judy, Judge Joe Brown and any other TV show court will contact you and see if you want to have the case adjudicated on the TV Court show.
IF,,,,, you feel that the the shop will NEVER pay you, the TV Show is a way to get your money back.
IF,, you have a bullet proof case and you feel that the shop will honor the judgment if you win, take the county court circuit.
BC
Yes and NO!
This is what I can tell you. I took a woman to Small Claims Court for damaging my 02 ZO6. The case was accepted. When its accepted, it is PUBLIC DOMAIN.
When it goes public, Peoples Court, Judge Judy, Judge Joe Brown and any other TV show court will contact you and see if you want to have the case adjudicated on the TV Court show.
IF,,,,, you feel that the the shop will NEVER pay you, the TV Show is a way to get your money back.
IF,, you have a bullet proof case and you feel that the shop will honor the judgment if you win, take the county court circuit.
BC
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,152
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From: South Western Ontario
Lawyers do. Even if you just go consult for an hour to get an action plan. They may try to push you around so I would not give up until the very end. If you want them to pay then at least drag their time into it. Good luck.
Peter
Peter
