The first set of codes is what I got from pulling codes with my car the second set is from Hp Tuners, Im not sure why Hp tuners gave me two more PCM codes but it did.
Im assuming that P0153 and P0133 are from the sensors not heating up fast enough so Im not too worried about those if thats the problem. And if Im not mistaken the P0140 and P0160 are for rear O2's which I dont have( thought I turned them off but I guess I didnt or didnt do it right) which are consequently the ones that turned on the SES, no big deal if this is the problem just need to tune them out.
Now the loss of communication is whats got me worried a little, could this be caused from disconnecting the battery while doing the install?
10PCM
P0133C
P0140HC
P0153C
P0160HC

80 RADIO
U1064H
U1016H
U1096H
I am assuming that the fuel trims are reading lean because of the headers and I havent tuned it yet? I was under the impression that it would be running rich as it also smells like it may be a little rich.
[PCM] P0140 - HO2S Circuit Insufficient Activity Bank 1 Sensor 2 (SES) (Old) (History) (Current) (Immature)
[PCM] P0160 - HO2S Circuit Insufficient Activity Bank 2 Sensor 2 (SES) (Old) (History) (Current) (Immature)
[PCM] P0133 - HO2S Slow Response Bank 1 Sensor 1 (Old) (Current) (Immature)
[PCM] P0153 - HO2S Slow Response Bank 2 Sensor 1 (Old) (Current) (Immature)
[PCM] P0171 - Fuel Trim System Lean Bank 1 (Old) (Immature)
[PCM] P0174 - Fuel Trim System Lean Bank 2 (Old) (Immature)
[Convenience] C2100 - (History) (Immature)
[Convenience] C2105 - (History) (Immature)
[Convenience] C2110 - (History) (Immature)
[Convenience] C2115 - (History) (Immature)

Oh and I checked the fuse for the O2's under the hood.

 

I was just now reading older posts (from 2010) on header problems/recommendations etc. before I do anything else stupid, and someone said they were told by a number of people to move the rear sensors to the front, but not what to do with the old front sensors... Seems you'd still delete the rear, but maybe not? Hopefully someone with the exact experience required here will chime in with that knowledge.

Also, if you're using a DIY Tuner box, you may be actually running very lean, according to HyperTech's tech support. I made the mistake of buying a HyperTech HyperPac for my '04 CE before reading and asking about this stuff on the forum; and after getting it, I was advised by someone on here I trust that, "Those things are worthless." Well, D'OH!!!

Anyway, I WAS smart enough to read the owners manual before installing the HyperPac and there was one glaring problem with changing differential gear ratios, in that my intention to install a 3.42:1 (ZO6) in place of my '04 CE's "Performance" 3.15:1 isn't recognized, since it isn't actually a "factory option," even though it's stock on the ZO6. So, I wrote and called (after waiting 2 days for an answer to my email) HyperTech's Technical Support. The guy on the phone simply said "no dice" on the gear swap, period. The same day my email got answered and the guy who answered my email was much more thorough, and he also talked about what appears to be your main issue at the moment. He said (at least on my '04 CE) they also can't allow for headers, some intakes, some superchargers/turbos, etc. because for some reason, headers alone on C5 Corvettes only (not Camaros, not Mustangs, Dodges, etc.) make the tuner set the fuel/air with a tendency to run way too lean, no matter what they tried to do to solve their programming problem(s).

Well, that makes most of the stuff I wanted the thing for useless (speedo correction, trying different tunes, etc.), but it will do all the jobs just fine as long as my car is stock. And, after all the planned mods, I could still use everything else, code descriptions & resets, drag race start lights & ETs, engine monitors for things there are no gauges for & aren't in the DIC, etc. Just can't do a performance tune, once it's non stock. There are certain things listed that don't apparently affect things in the tuner like hi-flow intakes such as the complete VaraRam system, even "some" FI seems to be covered, 'cause there are pages in the tuner for them, but headers and gear swaps knock it down & out. Here's the email reply to me in it's entirety, my original question is at the bottom. Very nice of Jim to cover all he did, good Tech Support;

Zeek

Unfortunately you are not missing or not understanding what you've read in the instructions. We do not offer the option to calibrate for non stock axle ratios only for certain model year Corvettes. We used to have the opton for the other ratios when we first came out with the Programmer for these vehicles but had issues that we could not resolve. There were problems with the SES light coming on and the transmission would slip on the 3-4 shift. We do not see these issues on the other makes and models such as the Camaro, Firebirds, SS Impala etc. I do not know of a MFG that does support the other ratios without having issues but there may be someone that does. What does the Forums state that they are using since so many are doing this change?
Our tuning in the Hyperpac, Max Energy and other Programmers we have made in the past are designed around a stock vehicle. There is no problem with a cat back exhaust, air intake systems and most other bolt on emission legal modifications. We do not see the need for custom tuning for air intake systems on most vehicles. There are certain makes and models that do need tuning for air intakes due to the mass air flow sensor calculations such as the 2005 and newer Ford Mustange GM and the new Mazdaspeed turbo cars. We offer air intake tuning for those vehicles.
We do not offer any type of custom tuning for the Supercharger or any other major modifications. Even the Header, high flow cats will cause the engine to run too lean to be used with our tuning.
You can use the other options the Hyperpac offers such as the Dyno Shop, Drag Strip, Diagnostics and Engine Monitor.


Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Zeek Duff [mailto:zeek@zeekduff.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 4:08 PM
To: techsupport
Subject: HyperPac & 2004 Corvette differential gear ratios

Hello,
I just acquired the HyperPac programmer for my "near new" (1,316 mi) 2004 Corvette LeMans Commemorative Edition Convertible with automatic trans and the stock "Performance" 3.15:1 differential gear ratio. And, I am reading the owner's manual before installing the device, so it's not connected to the car, yet. But, before doing that, I want to be sure the HyperPac will do what I need, and disturbingly, it seems I've found that in the differential gear ratio choices, it appears the device only recognizes 2 ratios, 2.73:1 and 3.15:1, and my car will have a 3.42:1 ratio installed, soon. A screen later in the manual (pg 111) says the device will display this on gear ratio screen; "only factory optional gears are supported." The 3:42 is a factory gear ratio for the ZO6, but not on the CE, which is again, the 3:15. Does this mean it won't acknowledge my 3:42 swap? If not, none of the settings will be correct, speedo, shift points, etc.

Is this all correct? If so, are you offering an upgrade to support this ratio? It is THE single-most important upgrade to the "base" (non-ZO6) C5 made by every owner who is interested in the best performance from their Corvettes. I found this information on The Corvette Forum, where I am an active senor member, and this rear end mod is a common "first mod," has been discussed many times, and still is, quite often. Logically, it would seem that merely entering the numbers for whatever ratio one has in the car would be the optimum way of programming the device for any "high performance car." Am I missing that ability by only reading the manual and not seeing the choices on the device, itself? What about intake modifications such as a VaraRam intake and/or a supercharger (also in my plans)? I'll also be making exhaust mods, starting with an SLP PowerFlo set of axle-back mufflers, to be followed by long-tube headers and an X-pipe with high-flow catalytic convertors before adding the supercharger this Fall. E3 sparkplugs are also going in when the headers are installed. Am I wrong in thinking all of these modifications would affect how the HyperPac tuner sees my car? So far, I'm not seeing allowances for these types of things in the owner's manual, at least... It DOES say there is a list of intakes and a separate supercharger page, but how do I know my choices will be there?

Also, it would be nice to have any software/firmware upgrades loadable by both Mac & PC computers via USB. I see there are downloadable upgrades for some of your lesser-featured devices, but not this one (that I've found). So, is there a USB cable and upgrades for the HyperPac?

Sorry to throw so much out there at once, but this is very important to me, wanting the best device for the best tune for a really great automobile, such as mine.

Best regards,
LG "Zeek" Duff
Longmont, CO
(Corvette Forum ID: ZeekDuff)

So, you can see I emboldened the header part, and I either have to return the HyperPac and lose a $10 restocking fee (the unit itself is still factory fresh, I only opened the CD), or run basically all stock (I can do the VaraRam & SLP axle-back I already have) until I do the headers, cats, X pipe, blower, & gear mods all at once at a dyno shop, immediately re-tuning my car there, or among other things, risk engine damage from running too lean. Too rich won't really hurt anything but your gas mileage and horsepower, but too lean will burn up valves and pistons, and pretty soon, too.

Sorry to include a lot of stuff here that isn't directly related to your original question, but maybe there will be some good come from all of it. I'll certainly be very interested in what other info you learn here, before I do anything else! Good luck!

Best regards,
...z

 

Well when I went to turn the codes off I didnt realize there were several for the rear o2's so that should be fixed now once I re-flash my ecu. Also I didnt buy a handheld tuner for some of those reasons, it just doesnt allow the amount of adjustments that would support my future mods, I have Hp Tuners BTW. I also scanned the car a few times now that I have had a chance to get it out on the road and it does appear that the O2's are much slower than the original fronts. Not sure if there is a way to clean them or if I will just have to replace them.
One thing I just found odd was that the lean codes only came up in Hp tuners not with the on board scanner, but like I said Im more worried about the loss of communication codes than anything as I am hopefully going to install my wideband o2 sensor this coming week.

 

How did you learn to use the HP Tuners software, the "The Tuning School Tuning the Right Way Manual and CD" or did you take a class for this stuff or what? In looking at it, there's too many parameters available to just wing it. And, it looks like a sizable investment, although I have an old Win98 laptop that just might run it (I'm mainly a Mac user). What's intimidating is not knowing right off the bat what the ideal specs should be for all parameters. That's why I first went with a dedicated unit. Do you know if anyone teaches (short) classes for this at say a community college for example? It looks like it could be a handy skill set, and just covering all C5s not that much more money for the tools. The "problem" is once we start making non-stock mods, like your losing the communication from removed sensors (I presume that's what's missing), we're kind of turned into Alices in WTF Land... Really curious, now!

Best regards,
...z

 

Well I am actually teaching myself by reading the forums and trying to get advice from people as I do not know anyone in my area who works with this and is willing to help. I have probably taught myself more by just playing around with the vcm editor than anything else, now Im not making changes to my vcm Im just looking at how things are set up in there and I am getting a feel for what to change and how it all works at the same time. I unfortunately do not know of any classes you can take that you dont have to pay a bunch for but if you can learn how to use it right it can be a lot of fun and you will get a lot of use out of it. Remember you can use it for pretty much any ford or chevy not just the corvette.
Also I would suggest using something with a little more power than that old laptop if you were to get hp tuners and you could always run it on your mac by running a dual os on there cant you?

 

I would clear the codes and see what happens. I wouldn't be too concerned about the loss of comms unless it keeps re-occuring.

It seems the slow O2 response will happen when you idle it. The info I found was that you can turn off those codes and it won't affect anything. So, I would as a minimum set them to no MIL and uncheck the SES box. You can also turn them right off if you want. I only disabled the reporting on a few codes because I wanted to see how often they come back.

Were you scanning the LTFT's? Were there any values that were really high there? They should all stay close to 0 on a properly tuned car.

Here's a great guide that gives thebasics of tuning the VE and MAF tables.

http://ls1tuningguide.com/tuningmanu...ons%20rev3.pdf

My car is a 6-speed so I didn't have to do any trans tuning. Probably lucky for me because that's a whole new bunch of tables to play with that I didn't have to worry about. But, if you have a automatic then you'll probably want to learn a little about tuning there too.

I'm still going to have to figure out tuning an auto, but for an 96 LT1 Camaro drivetrain going into a 65 Impala. I'm using Tunercat for it and I'm probably a week away from firing it up. A cam lobe in the old engine went flat or I'd be driving it.


You put the rears in the front holes and get adapter harnesses to connect them to the front O2 plugs on the car. The rear O2 plugs are not used anymore.

And no, you can't use a handheld programmer with the mods you are asking about. You have to go all-out and either use a tuning program or get someone to tune it.

Peter

 

I did clear all the codes and the only ones that continue to come back are the rear o2 ones so I have since turned them off but havent had a chance to reflash my car yet. The slow response has come back too now that I think about it and it does seem like they are about half as fast as the stock front ones were, Im not too worried about that though. I have not logged the LTFT or the STFT yet as I have not installed a wideband yet and dont want to play around with the AFR. I will probably set up the data logging so that it will record the fuel trims and take a look at them tomorrow. Im sure they are off because it has not been tuned at all.

 

You can do a lot of tuning without the wideband. Just set the scanner up on STFT and use a filter afr>14.5 so that it only logs during closed loop. Then, tune the lower rpm/higher vacuum area of the tables. Bring up the status bit's and insert a block. Under the engine pick Fuel Trim Learn. This will add a group of bits that shows the engine in closed loop and fuel learn mode. You can start tuning the ranges where the fuel trim learn and closed loop fuel bit stay green.

That guide says to multiply first with the big errors and then multiply by 1/2 as the errors decrease. I found that went to far for the VE table so I was modifying the table by a few numbers to adjust for the error. The mutliply by 1/2 and then smooth out the curve manually or with the tools worked OK for the MAF table.

You want to concentrate on the 1k-2.5k rpm low map or low airflow range heading in an L shape towards higher map/airflow and rpm's. Basically, set the table to require at least 20 or 30 samples and that will eliminate the 1 off's that will get you all messed up.

Peter

 

Im not too sure how to work all this stuff as I am just getting into it, so how do you apply the filter you are talking about. Im pretty sure I know how to set it up to log the STFT.
Also why would I just tune the lower rpm ranges? I guess you wont really see any higher rpms if you are staying in closed loop though. Im assuming I will need to use the wideband to tune the open loop?

 

I closed my laptop so I can't check, but if I recall it's towards the bottom of the setup screen for the logging table you are creating. I suppose you could also put in to only log when the fuel trim learn bit is set, which might actually be better.


You'll find it stayes closed loop with a fair bit of throttle. However, at a certain percentage of throttle the engine will go into WOT mode which is open loop with the computer only using the tuning data to run at the power enrichment fuel setting. You need the wideband to do this WOT tuning.

You can PM me if you have any questions as you are using the package.

Peter

 

I could use a lesson here too. I have longtubes with all 4 sensors hooked up the same as factory locations. Just tuned off the cat codes. Is that ok?

 

I dont see where this would be a problem but since your rear O2 sensors are just there to see if your cats are working they arent really doing anything.

 

If you have no cats then the rear sensors are just acting as bungs in the pipes. My understanding is that the rear sensors are often moved to the front with certain headers because the wires on the front sensors are too short and won't reach to the new mounting location.

Peter

 

Thanks to both of you. This is very clarifying for me. Once I figure out how to get the wideband routed up into the car, I may pick back up some momentum in this tuning operation. For now, it is good to know those rear sensors don't do anything. They would not fit very well, and the shop was all worried about it. I told them, just bang them in there and let us pray for luck.

 

You would think the shop would know what they are doing with the rear O2's and that they are not needed...

 

Beat me to it.

 

And to think I learned this when I was 15 or 16 and a "professional" is unaware of how the O2 sensors work.