Engine Block Digitizing at TSP!
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Engine Block Digitizing at TSP!
Here is a movie we recently made of our new Centroid B4250 4-Axis CNC machine. This is the first part of our machining process where we use the machine to locate where the block is at, and what we need to do to get the motor back to blueprint specs. We sped the video up a little(4x) to get through a bit quicker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIa0StHVYQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIa0StHVYQs
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 105
From: Northville Michigan
Here is a movie we recently made of our new Centroid B4250 4-Axis CNC machine. This is the first part of our machining process where we use the machine to locate where the block is at, and what we need to do to get the motor back to blueprint specs. We sped the video up a little(4x) to get through a bit quicker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIa0StHVYQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIa0StHVYQs
John,
I would like to suggest that you mount the engine via its engine mounting points and the bellhousing attaching surface, rather than using a bar through the main bearings.
NASCAR engine builders find enough bending of the block when mounted as I state above to change the centerline of the crankshaft, the cam bores, and the cylinder's roundness.
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Joined: May 2001
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From: Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed.
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
Nice!!
Matt told me recently how you guys have now brought all your machine/assembly work in-house on your engines and have a bunch of new equipment and some new folks to get the work done.
Is this digitizing part of the procedure on all your engine builds? I'm thinking LS7 441......hmmm.
Matt told me recently how you guys have now brought all your machine/assembly work in-house on your engines and have a bunch of new equipment and some new folks to get the work done.
Is this digitizing part of the procedure on all your engine builds? I'm thinking LS7 441......hmmm.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 105
From: Northville Michigan
John,
I am sorry, but the video that I viewed did not have the engine mounted using the ENGINE MOUNT pads.
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Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 134
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Thread Starter
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Nice!!
Matt told me recently how you guys have now brought all your machine/assembly work in-house on your engines and have a bunch of new equipment and some new folks to get the work done.
Is this digitizing part of the procedure on all your engine builds? I'm thinking LS7 441......hmmm.
Matt told me recently how you guys have now brought all your machine/assembly work in-house on your engines and have a bunch of new equipment and some new folks to get the work done.
Is this digitizing part of the procedure on all your engine builds? I'm thinking LS7 441......hmmm.
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Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Texas Speed TX
I want to clear something up real quick because I think your not looking at it correctly. The crankshaft & camshaft bar are not there for mounting, they are used to perfectly locate the block in a manor that allows us to put the camshaft & crankshaft directly in line. This is a common problem in production blocks, the factory does not typically put the cam & cranks in alignment. By using this machine we can digitize the camshaft & crankshaft centerlines & locate them perfectly in line. The block is actually mounted off dowels & bolts on the back of the block. The camshaft & crankshaft bars will actually spin freely in the block while it's mounted in this fixture. One of the steps we take when mounting the motor in the machine is spin the bars to make sure the block isn't binding up. 
Compare this to any LS shop in the entire world. I bet nobody does anything anywhere near the level of detail that we put into our short-blocks.
Compare this to any LS shop in the entire world. I bet nobody does anything anywhere near the level of detail that we put into our short-blocks.
Last edited by Jason 98 TA; Aug 5, 2011 at 11:00 AM.
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From: Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed.
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
Yes sir we digitize every block to make sure everything is correct in the motor. This is part of the process that has to be done before the motor can be shipped. You would be amazed at how many brand new GM blocks have to be fixed in order for the motors to be "right."
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 105
From: Northville Michigan
Jason,
I applaud your efforts to make improvements in the measuring and machining of engine blocks.
What my original comments was meant to do was to stimulate your thinking:
- NASCAR engine builders have learned that the crank and camshaft centerline and roundness are significantly effected by how their machining centers mount the block as it is being measured and machined.
- The most advanced shops measure and machine the block while it is mounted by the same fastener holes as it is mounted in their cars.
- They have also learned to Line Bore the blocks while they are mounted in car-position, using only the engine mount pads and the rear face of block while the block is in car position.
- They bolt the cylinder heads to the block, using a head gasket, while they Line Bore.
- They attach any main cap mounted oil pump housing to the main cap while they Line Bore.
- Finish Honing is done with the block heated using hot oil to 190 degrees F.
I hope some of this adds to making your machining facility even more accurate.
I applaud your efforts to make improvements in the measuring and machining of engine blocks.
What my original comments was meant to do was to stimulate your thinking:
- NASCAR engine builders have learned that the crank and camshaft centerline and roundness are significantly effected by how their machining centers mount the block as it is being measured and machined.
- The most advanced shops measure and machine the block while it is mounted by the same fastener holes as it is mounted in their cars.
- They have also learned to Line Bore the blocks while they are mounted in car-position, using only the engine mount pads and the rear face of block while the block is in car position.
- They bolt the cylinder heads to the block, using a head gasket, while they Line Bore.
- They attach any main cap mounted oil pump housing to the main cap while they Line Bore.
- Finish Honing is done with the block heated using hot oil to 190 degrees F.
I hope some of this adds to making your machining facility even more accurate.
I want to clear something up real quick because I think your not looking at it correctly. The crankshaft & camshaft bar are not there for mounting, they are used to perfectly locate the block in a manor that allows us to put the camshaft & crankshaft directly in line. This is a common problem in production blocks, the factory does not typically put the cam & cranks in alignment. By using this machine we can digitize the camshaft & crankshaft centerlines & locate them perfectly in line. The block is actually mounted off dowels & bolts on the back of the block. The camshaft & crankshaft bars will actually spin freely in the block while it's mounted in this fixture. One of the steps we take when mounting the motor in the machine is spin the bars to make sure the block isn't binding up.
Compare this to any LS shop in the entire world. I bet nobody does anything anywhere near the level of detail that we put into our short-blocks.
Compare this to any LS shop in the entire world. I bet nobody does anything anywhere near the level of detail that we put into our short-blocks.
Last edited by Pumba; Aug 9, 2011 at 09:03 AM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,843
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From: Howell Michigan
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
I want to clear something up real quick because I think your not looking at it correctly. The crankshaft & camshaft bar are not there for mounting, they are used to perfectly locate the block in a manor that allows us to put the camshaft & crankshaft directly in line. This is a common problem in production blocks, the factory does not typically put the cam & cranks in alignment. By using this machine we can digitize the camshaft & crankshaft centerlines & locate them perfectly in line. The block is actually mounted off dowels & bolts on the back of the block. The camshaft & crankshaft bars will actually spin freely in the block while it's mounted in this fixture. One of the steps we take when mounting the motor in the machine is spin the bars to make sure the block isn't binding up.
Compare this to any LS shop in the entire world. I bet nobody does anything anywhere near the level of detail that we put into our short-blocks.
Compare this to any LS shop in the entire world. I bet nobody does anything anywhere near the level of detail that we put into our short-blocks.
What level of misalignment are you finding? What tolerance of alignment do you hold? How many blocks have you worked on with this issue?
Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,843
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From: Howell Michigan
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
A comment like “factory does not typically put the cam & cranks in alignment” needs to be quantified. Compared to what? To what tolerance do you hold cam to crankshaft alignment on the blocks your company works on? How much better is this than production?
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From: Western NY
