Blackwing Cover
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From: Kahnawake Quebec
Blackwing Cover
I just got my Blackwing filter. I would also like to try the cold air box cover? for it too.
Can anyone tell me more about it, and what I need to get with it, and where to get the cover, and how much $$$$ it costs , best place to buy etc...Thanks
Can anyone tell me more about it, and what I need to get with it, and where to get the cover, and how much $$$$ it costs , best place to buy etc...Thanks
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: TX
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St. Jude Contributor '04
Re: Blackwing Cover (Quick Silver Bullet)
We used to carry the cold air cover for the Blackwing but we had reports of some cars surging with the cover. We tested it on 3 cars and 2 out of the 3, surged. We no longer sell it for that reason.
Nate
Nate
Burning Brakes
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From: Finksburg MD
Cruise-In III Veteran
Re: Blackwing Cover (Nate@xtreme)
We used to carry the cold air cover for the Blackwing but we had reports of some cars surging with the cover. We tested it on 3 cars and 2 out of the 3, surged. We no longer sell it for that reason.
Nate
Nate
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Re: Blackwing Cover (jmcassin)
OK, the cover for the Blackwing goes over the Blackwing -- looks kind of like the original intake. Then, you need to cut a whole in the radiator shroud that the filter sits over -- this give you outside air (some call it cold air) from underneath the car. Others claim a "ram air" effect. Some put a screen over the hole before reinstalling the filter, to keep the major debris (like leaves) out.
Now the fun starts. The car, as Nate observed above, will most likely surge.
Suggestion: Don't do it. If there's any gain, it will be mitigated by the surging and check engine lights. The Blackwing flows fine as it is, and the God of Ram Air Laminar Flow Bottom Breathers -- Jim Hall, has discontinued his "bottom breather" and now pushing the under the hood model -- with results "just as good." His is basically a smaller filter (less flow) with a sideways mounted powerduct (think Bill Clinton).
Now the fun starts. The car, as Nate observed above, will most likely surge.
Suggestion: Don't do it. If there's any gain, it will be mitigated by the surging and check engine lights. The Blackwing flows fine as it is, and the God of Ram Air Laminar Flow Bottom Breathers -- Jim Hall, has discontinued his "bottom breather" and now pushing the under the hood model -- with results "just as good." His is basically a smaller filter (less flow) with a sideways mounted powerduct (think Bill Clinton).
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 4,043
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From: Central NJ
Re: Blackwing Cover (EHS)
You will get some surging. Some can deal with it , while others cannot. It really depends on the amount of surging you get. I have the cover and only get very slight surging while I'm slowing down and coasting. I don't get any codes or anything of the sort. I can tell you one thing though. With the cover there is a good deal of performance benefit. It really does suck in the cold air like the other bottom breathers. I did some testing and comparisons with other air boxes in regards to air intake temps. I also did before and after 1/4 mile track tests with and without the cover. I really like the blackwing, but this baby sucks in a lot of hot engine air without the cover. With the cover you can expect a 25 to 30 degree decrease in air intake temps on a hot day.
Tony
Tony
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From: Greenville NC
Re: Blackwing Cover (Quick Silver Bullet)
The Cover causes surging on some ~20-30% it seemed in the past b/c it is not sealed. It gets air from the engine compartment and the outside. Some members sealed theres and the surging went away. Its not "pretty" afterwards though, most of them sealed it with duck tape.
The members that are saying its not worth any gain are incorrect. There is much performance to be had from a Cold Air Intake verses and underhood. When your driving, your underhood is breathing hot air from underneith the car. One vendor tested it and picked up .2 seconds in the quarter with the cover, they had picked up .2 with the Donaldon initially, so the cover was worth the same additional improvment as the filter itself. Of the people I've known to switch between the Donaldson and Vortex (witch is a CAI) they have had noticable gains, according to them, with the Cold Air Intake.
The members that are saying its not worth any gain are incorrect. There is much performance to be had from a Cold Air Intake verses and underhood. When your driving, your underhood is breathing hot air from underneith the car. One vendor tested it and picked up .2 seconds in the quarter with the cover, they had picked up .2 with the Donaldon initially, so the cover was worth the same additional improvment as the filter itself. Of the people I've known to switch between the Donaldson and Vortex (witch is a CAI) they have had noticable gains, according to them, with the Cold Air Intake.
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Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 35
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From: Bend Or
Re: Blackwing Cover (Nate@xtreme)
I just ordered a 2002 Electron Blue Convertible (site unseen!) I have seen photos of the Z06, but not the Vert. Do you have any pics of your Vert?
Thanks in advance.
Marc-Bend, Oregon
mschafler@sunriver-realty.com
Thanks in advance.
Marc-Bend, Oregon
mschafler@sunriver-realty.com
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2000
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From: Cropwell AL
Re: Blackwing Cover (tabbruzz)
After talking to some with the cover and no reports of the surging effect, I have ordered one to try. I now have a homemade cover for the blackwing. Its made of Lexan and I have had zero problems, so ordered the cover for appearance reasons.
Race Director
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Re: Blackwing Cover (tabbruzz)
tabbruzz:
...I really like the blackwing, but this baby sucks in a lot of hot engine air without the cover. With the cover you can expect a 25 to 30 degree decrease in air intake temps on a hot day.
Tony
...I really like the blackwing, but this baby sucks in a lot of hot engine air without the cover. With the cover you can expect a 25 to 30 degree decrease in air intake temps on a hot day.
Tony
"I'm willing to give up a little performance for keeping dirt and water off the filter, so no cutting shrouds. The stock airbox is more restrictive, like a vacuum hose pressed against the carpet. Take it away and the vacuum works better. But to a point.
"I'm not a big fan of cutting the shroud, because there are plenty of areas where air can get to the filter. Like a vacuum cleaner, the engine won't suck more air because it's in a bigger room (or outside for that matter). The MAF flows about 650 cfm per minute, and that's all the access you need. Also, sticking the Halltech TRIC snorkel down to the ground because of a "ram" effect is like running down the hallway with your vacuum cleaner's hose held out in front of you. It will not suck any more air that way either.
"The only way to get more air into a vacuum cleaner (like into an engine -- sheees -- there's that analogy again), is to lock your lips around the hose and blow hard -- on a car that's called turbo or supercharging.
"With regard to the temperature argument, a 10 degree differential is worth about 1% in horsepower. That's the temperature of the air that the engine is sucking, not what it feels like when you touch the exhaust manifold.
"Realistically, when you're moving, the difference in air temperature in the compartment where the stock filter resides vs. outside ambient air is about 0-10 degrees. That equates to a gain of about 2 hp at 30 mph, and 1 hp at 60 mph. Big deal."
So, you pick up about 1-2hp with the cover, and trade a potentially surging car for it. If you go to the Halltech or the Z 0 6 Forum website -- they post results for cars with both the "bottom breathers" and the under the hood models. Looking at the results and differences, I don't think you can draw a clear statistical difference between the two types of intakes. As the man said, "your results may vary."
:cheers:
[Modified by EHS, 11:54 AM 5/21/2002]
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From: Greenville NC
Re: Blackwing Cover (EHS)
I need to respectfully disagree with both Tony and ncvetteman. Here is the text of a post from several years ago, which I believe still holds true today:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Manchester NH
Re: Blackwing Cover (Humy)
This will likely be my next mod. I just recently made Swiss cheese out of my stock airbox, and while I don't have any numbers, I'm convinced I've gained upwards of 10-15HP from essentially converting my air box to an open element filter design. The power increase is evident at the very top end, which makes sense. I tend to be a skeptic, but the thing that tells me I really have gained HP is that I'm now hitting the rev limiter much more frequently than before the mod - it's totally catching me by surprise now.
-Pete
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2000
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From: Cropwell AL
Re: Blackwing Cover (EHS)
This is another of those cold air debates over filters that can never be resolved, but I can tell you that the hardcore no waxers group over at zr1 who run low 11s na, all swear by the blackwing with their homemade covers not by sop feel, but by seeing that the IAT is lower on their scans thus colder air thus more power. I changed from the Halltech because of the high IAT and with the blackwing it lowered it 10 degrees or more.
[Modified by DUKE, 11:28 AM 5/21/2002]
[Modified by DUKE, 11:28 AM 5/21/2002]
Race Director
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From: Scarborough ME
Re: Blackwing Cover (Quick Silver Bullet)
I've been running a Donaldson Blackwing filter with the cold air cover for over a year with NO problems. I'm not saying others haven't had surging, only that I haven't. Cold air is supposed to be worth ~1% HP for every 10 degrees you lower your intake temperature. It shouldn't be too difficult to believe you can get 3%-5% additional HP using cold air intakes. Not bad for the price of the cover.
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
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Re: Blackwing Cover (DUKE)
This is another of those cold air debates over filters that can never be resolved, but I can tell you that the hardcore no waxers group over at zr1 who run low 11s na, all swear by the blackwing with their homemade covers not by sop feel, but by seeing that the IAT is lower on their scans thus colder air thus more power. I changed from the Halltech because of the high IAT and with the blackwing it lowered it 10 degrees or more.
Duke, I agree, and I'm going to step out of this thread after this one last post.
If 10 degrees temperature difference is worth 1% more horsepower, then on an otherwise stock 350 hp C5, the difference is about 3.5 hp.
Even if there is a 20-30 degree difference (which there really is not, when you're moving), that's only about 7-10 hp difference (2-3%).
Here's the clincher:
The car weighs 3,246 lbs., which means it has a power/weight ratio of 1 hp for every 9 lbs.
So, for every 9 lbs. you save, you've picked up the equivalent of 1 hp.
Fuel weighs about 6 lbs. per gallon. If you run with 4 or 5 less gallons in your 18.5 gallon tank, you have just picked up more than the difference.
Or, just have the driver lose a couple of pounds.
Now, the question is, can anyone really tell the difference in performance with 4 or 5 additional gallons of fuel? Or for that matter, even with a 150 lbs. passenger?
Food for thought.
:seeya
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Joined: Feb 1999
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From: Central NJ
Re: Blackwing Cover (EHS)
EHS,
I tested the air intake temps with an autotap and then also tested the car at the 1/4 mile track. My experiences are for real and my individual testing proved it to me. I guess results may vary, but my AIT IS 25 to 30 degrees cooler with the cover. I also picked up at least 2 tenths and 2-3 mph with the cover.
Tony
I tested the air intake temps with an autotap and then also tested the car at the 1/4 mile track. My experiences are for real and my individual testing proved it to me. I guess results may vary, but my AIT IS 25 to 30 degrees cooler with the cover. I also picked up at least 2 tenths and 2-3 mph with the cover.
Tony
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 970
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From: Houston, Texas
Re: Blackwing Cover (ncvetteman)
Vendors and members have tested the donaldon both ways in the past, and members have pulled underhoods for CAI in the past.
Donaldson, Halltech bottom breather, Donaldson with cold air cover, Vortex Rammer, Halltech Air Bridge, Breathless Air Bridge, West Coast Air Bridge.
How's that for wasting some money :lol:
Well I am back to the Donaldson without cold air. Im very pleased with the performance. I didnt see one repeatable .10 of a second between the products at the track. :eek: I ran 12.6's with all the setups listed above. I even ran autotap on the cars intake temp numerous times checking intake air temp. The cold air systems did provide any where from 10-25 F drop in intake temp. However the expected 1%-2.5% increase in HP never showed on a time slip.
There are still some that believe there is a ram air benefit with some of the cold air systems mentioned. Perhaps at 125 mph there is a marginal effect.
:yesnod:
As far as "Real World" results. This isnt the "Real World" its the Corvette Forum
where many who have never popped the hoods of their cars can parrot what they have heard from others until it becomes a truth. :yesnod:
The forum is a great place for sharing experiences but dont believe just because you read here it is "Truth". Popular Opinion Rules Here! :flag
Flame if you must but give it some thought
:cheers:Matthew
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 11,309
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From: Valley Ranch, Texas
Re: Blackwing Cover (Adman)
Vendors and members have tested the donaldon both ways in the past, and members have pulled underhoods for CAI in the past.
Well for what its worth...I have used in the following order.
Donaldson, Halltech bottom breather, Donaldson with cold air cover, Vortex Rammer, Halltech Air Bridge, Breathless Air Bridge, West Coast Air Bridge.
How's that for wasting some money :lol:
Well I am back to the Donaldson without cold air. Im very pleased with the performance. I didnt see one repeatable .10 of a second between the products at the track. :eek: I ran 12.6's with all the setups listed above. I even ran autotap on the cars intake temp numerous times checking intake air temp. The cold air systems did provide any where from 10-25 F drop in intake temp. However the expected 1%-2.5% increase in HP never showed on a time slip.
There are still some that believe there is a ram air benefit with some of the cold air systems mentioned. Perhaps at 125 mph there is a marginal effect.
:yesnod:
As far as "Real World" results. This isnt the "Real World" its the Corvette Forum
where many who have never popped the hoods of their cars can parrot what they have heard from others until it becomes a truth. :yesnod:
The forum is a great place for sharing experiences but dont believe just because you read here it is "Truth". Popular Opinion Rules Here! :flag
Flame if you must but give it some thought
:cheers:Matthew
Well for what its worth...I have used in the following order.
Donaldson, Halltech bottom breather, Donaldson with cold air cover, Vortex Rammer, Halltech Air Bridge, Breathless Air Bridge, West Coast Air Bridge.
How's that for wasting some money :lol:
Well I am back to the Donaldson without cold air. Im very pleased with the performance. I didnt see one repeatable .10 of a second between the products at the track. :eek: I ran 12.6's with all the setups listed above. I even ran autotap on the cars intake temp numerous times checking intake air temp. The cold air systems did provide any where from 10-25 F drop in intake temp. However the expected 1%-2.5% increase in HP never showed on a time slip.
There are still some that believe there is a ram air benefit with some of the cold air systems mentioned. Perhaps at 125 mph there is a marginal effect.
:yesnod:
As far as "Real World" results. This isnt the "Real World" its the Corvette Forum
where many who have never popped the hoods of their cars can parrot what they have heard from others until it becomes a truth. :yesnod:
The forum is a great place for sharing experiences but dont believe just because you read here it is "Truth". Popular Opinion Rules Here! :flag
Flame if you must but give it some thought
:cheers:Matthew
:yesnod:
