Charging system failure issue
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Charging system failure issue
The other day, I had a problem starting the car. I got a "Charging System Failure" "Low Voltage" message on the DIC. So, I took the battery out and put it on a charger. After fully charging the battery, I reinstalled everything and tried to start the car. Initially, it wouldn't turn over and just clicked. I noticed the A/C was turned on. I turned off the A/C and the car started fine (the voltage read 14 volts on the DIC). I let it run for about ten minutes then turned it off. When I went to restart it, the starter was cranking but the car wouldn't turn over initially. After a few minutes of trying, the car did start, but showed the same error message and the guages/HUD were acting funny. A short time later, the car stalled. Now, the car will not turn over (starter sounds like it is working normally), and the DIC hovers around 6 - 5.5 volts. What is going on? I've done some searching and I've seen remedies ranging from the battery, to the alternator, to the starter.
I had a stereo w/amp professionally installed about three weeks ago, but the car had been fine up until now... Not sure if this would be a factor but I wanted to point that out. Also, the battery has a sticker on it that says 4/11, leading me to believe that is just over a year old. I bought the car in December and haven't really driven it all that much, and during hibernation the battery was not charged, though the car was driven here and there since we had a mild winter. Any suggestions as to what could be wrong? I tried to pull codes but I couldn't... it just kept repeating the Charging System Error. Thanks!
I had a stereo w/amp professionally installed about three weeks ago, but the car had been fine up until now... Not sure if this would be a factor but I wanted to point that out. Also, the battery has a sticker on it that says 4/11, leading me to believe that is just over a year old. I bought the car in December and haven't really driven it all that much, and during hibernation the battery was not charged, though the car was driven here and there since we had a mild winter. Any suggestions as to what could be wrong? I tried to pull codes but I couldn't... it just kept repeating the Charging System Error. Thanks!
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Also, I should probably add that the day before this started happening, I fixed the EBCM with the procedure posted here on the forum. It did fix the service active handling errors, so I'm assuming I didn't screw up anything in that respect. The car was fine for about a day and a half before this started happening. While working on it, I did have the negative battery cable disconnected.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 21
From: Oak Hill Virginia
Two initial steps I would take.
1. Pull and post DTC's; instructions at the bottom of this post.
2. Take your battery out and have it load tested. Most large autoparts stores will do it for free.
Your installer may have installed your aftermarket unit such that there is a constant drain on your battery. Start with the simple things; have it load tested so you know you are working with a strong battery and go from there.
If you do end up needing a new battery spring for a good one. You have aftermarket electronic components and these cars are battery killers in stock form. You want at least 700 CCA and 110 Reserve Capacity. Also, whenever I've needed a new battery I've gone with group 78 batteries instead of the oem group 75. They are larger and usually good for a few more CCAs and I've never had a problem with the fit. Many members on these boards have done the same.
1. Pull and post DTC's; instructions at the bottom of this post.
2. Take your battery out and have it load tested. Most large autoparts stores will do it for free.
Your installer may have installed your aftermarket unit such that there is a constant drain on your battery. Start with the simple things; have it load tested so you know you are working with a strong battery and go from there.
If you do end up needing a new battery spring for a good one. You have aftermarket electronic components and these cars are battery killers in stock form. You want at least 700 CCA and 110 Reserve Capacity. Also, whenever I've needed a new battery I've gone with group 78 batteries instead of the oem group 75. They are larger and usually good for a few more CCAs and I've never had a problem with the fit. Many members on these boards have done the same.
POST DTCS!!!
READING YOUR Engine Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)
This procedure should be carried out any time you experience a problem with your C5. Most inexpensive store bought aftermarket code readers will ONLY read power train DTC’s. Reading the DTC’s with the C5 built in code reader will allow you to read ALL the modules in the vehicle.
The Diagnostic Display Mode is entered with the following procedure:
1) Turn on the ignition but don't start the engine.
2) Press the RESET button to turn off any warning messages. (i.e. door open, trunk open ect)
3) Press and hold the OPTIONS button
4) While holding OPTIONS, press FUEL button four times within a 10 -second period.
Initially, the on-board diagnostics go into an Automatic Mode which will cycle through each module and shows diagnostic codes in a pre-set sequence: PCM - TCS - RTD - BCM - IPC - RADIO - HVAC - LDCM - RDCM - SCM - RFA. All codes will be displayed for each module. ( i.e. PCM = 4 codes) If none are present in a given module, you will see No More Codes on the display.
There are two types of diagnostic codes, Current and History designated with a letter suffix, “C” or “H”. A current code indicates a malfunction is present in the module displaying data. A history code indicates a problem existed sometime in the last 40 or 50 ignition cycles. When not accompanied by a current code of the same number, it's potential evidence of a previous problem, now resolved, that was not removed by clearing the codes. More likely it's an indication of an intermittent malfunction.
Intermittent codes are the most challenging of the diagnostics. An intermittent code may have happened once, may have happened more than once but is inconsistent or may be happening on a regular basis but not at the time the codes are displayed. History codes can also be caused by a current malfunction in a system that is not operating at the time codes are displayed. An example is the rear window defogger which doesn't operate until the Body Control Module detects engine rpm. For history codes set by a module that does not operate with the key on and engine off, a special diagnostic tool called a Scan Tester is necessary to properly diagnose the malfunction.
Once the system has displayed all modules, it goes into the manual mode which allows selection of each module using combinations of Driver Information Center buttons. Manual mode can also be entered during the automatic sequence by pressing any button except E/M. Once the display shows Manual Diagnostics, select a module by pressing the OPTIONS button to go forward or the TRIP button to go back. Once a module is selected, a code is displayed, and if more than one are present; press GAGES to go forward or FUEL to go back.
To exit the diagnostic mode at any time, press E/M. If you want to erase codes in a given module, press RESET To reset the codes once in manual mode, press and hold RESET until it displays NO CODES Press OPTIONS to go to the next module. Repeat the steps until you have reset the codes in all the computer modules.
NOTE!! Only reset the codes IF you want to - it is NOT necessary to do this. Clearing a code does not repair a problem. You are simply erasing the evidence of it in the module's memory. If you clear the code/s, and extinguish the Check Engine Light, your emissions status ready will NOT allow you to pass an emissions test until you have completed the required driving cycles. There are a few body module DTC’s that if set will prevent the module from operating properly. Once the DTC is cleared, the module will return to full function. This is not true for power train DTCs.
If you have never read and cleared your codes, there will probably be a lot of old history DTCs. It is recommended that you clear your codes and see if any come back during a driving cycle. Those are the ones that you need to concentrate on diagnosing.
Once you have the codes, the next question is: What to do with the information?
First, consult the factory service manual. Any serious C5 Do-It-Yourself owner should invest in the Corvette Service Manual of the appropriate model year. The Service Manual is really a requirement if you want to understand and work on your C5.
NOTE and a WARNING. You can read the DTCs while the engine is running. I pull mine up all the time while driving.
WARNING. Don’t become distracted while reading DTCs while your driving and cause an accident!!!!! Use common sense and drive safe.
These are some very good C5 Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) explanation web sites!!! They also explain how to read the DTCs
Here are some very good sites that explain what DTC mean:
http://www.gearchatter.com/viewtopic11755.php
http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_cod...d-ii-codes.php
Make sure to include the H or C suffix when you post your DTCs!!
READING YOUR Engine Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)
This procedure should be carried out any time you experience a problem with your C5. Most inexpensive store bought aftermarket code readers will ONLY read power train DTC’s. Reading the DTC’s with the C5 built in code reader will allow you to read ALL the modules in the vehicle.
The Diagnostic Display Mode is entered with the following procedure:
1) Turn on the ignition but don't start the engine.
2) Press the RESET button to turn off any warning messages. (i.e. door open, trunk open ect)
3) Press and hold the OPTIONS button
4) While holding OPTIONS, press FUEL button four times within a 10 -second period.
Initially, the on-board diagnostics go into an Automatic Mode which will cycle through each module and shows diagnostic codes in a pre-set sequence: PCM - TCS - RTD - BCM - IPC - RADIO - HVAC - LDCM - RDCM - SCM - RFA. All codes will be displayed for each module. ( i.e. PCM = 4 codes) If none are present in a given module, you will see No More Codes on the display.
There are two types of diagnostic codes, Current and History designated with a letter suffix, “C” or “H”. A current code indicates a malfunction is present in the module displaying data. A history code indicates a problem existed sometime in the last 40 or 50 ignition cycles. When not accompanied by a current code of the same number, it's potential evidence of a previous problem, now resolved, that was not removed by clearing the codes. More likely it's an indication of an intermittent malfunction.
Intermittent codes are the most challenging of the diagnostics. An intermittent code may have happened once, may have happened more than once but is inconsistent or may be happening on a regular basis but not at the time the codes are displayed. History codes can also be caused by a current malfunction in a system that is not operating at the time codes are displayed. An example is the rear window defogger which doesn't operate until the Body Control Module detects engine rpm. For history codes set by a module that does not operate with the key on and engine off, a special diagnostic tool called a Scan Tester is necessary to properly diagnose the malfunction.
Once the system has displayed all modules, it goes into the manual mode which allows selection of each module using combinations of Driver Information Center buttons. Manual mode can also be entered during the automatic sequence by pressing any button except E/M. Once the display shows Manual Diagnostics, select a module by pressing the OPTIONS button to go forward or the TRIP button to go back. Once a module is selected, a code is displayed, and if more than one are present; press GAGES to go forward or FUEL to go back.
To exit the diagnostic mode at any time, press E/M. If you want to erase codes in a given module, press RESET To reset the codes once in manual mode, press and hold RESET until it displays NO CODES Press OPTIONS to go to the next module. Repeat the steps until you have reset the codes in all the computer modules.
NOTE!! Only reset the codes IF you want to - it is NOT necessary to do this. Clearing a code does not repair a problem. You are simply erasing the evidence of it in the module's memory. If you clear the code/s, and extinguish the Check Engine Light, your emissions status ready will NOT allow you to pass an emissions test until you have completed the required driving cycles. There are a few body module DTC’s that if set will prevent the module from operating properly. Once the DTC is cleared, the module will return to full function. This is not true for power train DTCs.
If you have never read and cleared your codes, there will probably be a lot of old history DTCs. It is recommended that you clear your codes and see if any come back during a driving cycle. Those are the ones that you need to concentrate on diagnosing.
Once you have the codes, the next question is: What to do with the information?
First, consult the factory service manual. Any serious C5 Do-It-Yourself owner should invest in the Corvette Service Manual of the appropriate model year. The Service Manual is really a requirement if you want to understand and work on your C5.
NOTE and a WARNING. You can read the DTCs while the engine is running. I pull mine up all the time while driving.
WARNING. Don’t become distracted while reading DTCs while your driving and cause an accident!!!!! Use common sense and drive safe.
These are some very good C5 Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) explanation web sites!!! They also explain how to read the DTCs
Here are some very good sites that explain what DTC mean:
http://www.gearchatter.com/viewtopic11755.php
http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_cod...d-ii-codes.php
Make sure to include the H or C suffix when you post your DTCs!!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,786
Likes: 7
From: Iowa
Just to throw another possibility out there could be dirty or burned contacts in the starter. Fairly common and free to fix if you can perform the procedure yourself.
when the switch fails it produces high resistance on the contacts which are responsible for distributing power all over the car.
when the switch fails it produces high resistance on the contacts which are responsible for distributing power all over the car.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 35
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You are referring to the ignition switch correct? I've seen some threads about this, and some very detailed information on how to clean them, but where is it located? Is it the actual ignition switch where you put in the key or is it another switch located somewhere behind the dash?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,360
Likes: 1,127
From: Dyer, IN
Just to throw another possibility out there could be dirty or burned contacts in the starter. Fairly common and free to fix if you can perform the procedure yourself.
when the switch fails it produces high resistance on the contacts which are responsible for distributing power all over the car.
when the switch fails it produces high resistance on the contacts which are responsible for distributing power all over the car.
There is an external lug on the "starter solenoid", which has the following connections for distribution:
1) Two terminals from the alternator
2) One terminal for the positive battery cable
If the connection at the lug becomes loose/corroded, it will cause problems.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,360
Likes: 1,127
From: Dyer, IN
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Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 35
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Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,360
Likes: 1,127
From: Dyer, IN
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,786
Likes: 7
From: Iowa
If you are suggesting that there is an internal switch to the starter, which can fail, and is responsible for distribution of power....that would be incorrect.
There is an external lug on the "starter solenoid", which has the following connections for distribution:
1) Two terminals from the alternator
2) One terminal for the positive battery cable
If the connection at the lug becomes loose/corroded, it will cause problems.
There is an external lug on the "starter solenoid", which has the following connections for distribution:
1) Two terminals from the alternator
2) One terminal for the positive battery cable
If the connection at the lug becomes loose/corroded, it will cause problems.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,786
Likes: 7
From: Iowa
You are referring to the ignition switch correct? I've seen some threads about this, and some very detailed information on how to clean them, but where is it located? Is it the actual ignition switch where you put in the key or is it another switch located somewhere behind the dash?
the key cylinder where you put the key to start the car inserts into the ignition switch, its all right there behind the key slot. To get to it you'll have to take the radio bezel out, and I think the knee bolster must be removed also. I haven't tried removing mine yet.
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Update to the situation. I took the battery out and had it tested... it actually tested better than it should have (according to the guy at the autoparts store). The car will crank and run after a longer than usual cranking time, but runs HORRIBLY and the HUD, gauges, etc... are doing crazy stuff. The message on the DIC is still charging system failure/low voltage. I can't pull codes. The minute I turn the key I get those errors and it won't let me do anything else. I would think this would rule out an alternator since I doubt that does much once the car is running. Obviously with the battery testing well this can be ruled out. So now, what do you think... starter or ignition switch? Maybe something else? I can figure out how to do repairs if I know what to repair but I'm not much of a troubleshooter. Another challenge is that I've only got one pair of jackstands... I usually use ramps to raise the front end of the car and since I can't drive it, thats out...
I'm almost ready to have it towed to the dealership, but I'm out of vaseline. I'm not too happy......
I'm almost ready to have it towed to the dealership, but I'm out of vaseline. I'm not too happy......
Thread Starter
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Also come to think of it, when I the car was running what seemed to be normally yesterday (at idle), I was browsing the DIC. I did notice that the tire pressure monitor was not showing the PSI measurements. Not sure if that means anything, but I thought that was odd. They have worked in the past.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,786
Likes: 7
From: Iowa
Also come to think of it, when I the car was running what seemed to be normally yesterday (at idle), I was browsing the DIC. I did notice that the tire pressure monitor was not showing the PSI measurements. Not sure if that means anything, but I thought that was odd. They have worked in the past.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Oak Hill Virginia
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Tried that... doesn't work. The only thing that I can get on the DIC is that low voltage message. When the car does start, sometimes it runs normally but more often than not, run really rough to the point of stalling. That low voltage message is displayed and the HUD and gauges are blinking out.
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Yep, that's next. I was toying with the idea of taking the starter out to have it checked out, but the ignition switch seems like an easier thing to start with. Probably start digging in tomorrow... Thanks!