Cam gurus
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 22,681
Likes: 798
From: Hillsborough NC
NC Events Coordinator
Cam gurus
For whatever reason, I had a broken piston in my motor and it will have to be rebuilt. I'll spare the sordid details, but I got it shut down quickly which minimized the damage.
I want to replace a few components that were not damaged. One is the camshaft.
Everything I know about camshafts couldn't fill a thimble and would still leave plenty of room for other stuff I don't know about these engines.
Here's what I want to know; what would be an ideal cam for a street/HPDE kind of car that has to live on good ol' 93 octane gas?
Here's what I've got:
Vengeance LS3 418 stroker short block
Callies/Manley internals
Trickflow 235cc heads
Yellow Terra 1.7 rockers
Trickflow pushrods
Comp lifters
FAST 92mm intake
AR long-tube headers and X-pipe
C5 Z06 ti exhaust
It had a custom-ground cam 234/238 .602/.604 (LSA ???).
It's in a 2001 Coupe with six-speed and Textralia clutch.
This car will see 6-8 HPDEs per year and some street driving. It's not a drag car and not a road racer (except in my fantasies). I don't care what my car sounds like and I'm not trying to impress people with dyno charts. If I have to trade away some horsepower for drivability and durability, so be it.
Any ideas? Comments?
I want to replace a few components that were not damaged. One is the camshaft.
Everything I know about camshafts couldn't fill a thimble and would still leave plenty of room for other stuff I don't know about these engines.
Here's what I want to know; what would be an ideal cam for a street/HPDE kind of car that has to live on good ol' 93 octane gas?
Here's what I've got:
Vengeance LS3 418 stroker short block
Callies/Manley internals
Trickflow 235cc heads
Yellow Terra 1.7 rockers
Trickflow pushrods
Comp lifters
FAST 92mm intake
AR long-tube headers and X-pipe
C5 Z06 ti exhaust
It had a custom-ground cam 234/238 .602/.604 (LSA ???).
It's in a 2001 Coupe with six-speed and Textralia clutch.
This car will see 6-8 HPDEs per year and some street driving. It's not a drag car and not a road racer (except in my fantasies). I don't care what my car sounds like and I'm not trying to impress people with dyno charts. If I have to trade away some horsepower for drivability and durability, so be it.
Any ideas? Comments?
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 22,681
Likes: 798
From: Hillsborough NC
NC Events Coordinator
I also read elsewhere on CF that you should try to keep lift under .600 for track day cars:
Choosing a Cam:
When you choose a Cam remember a few things: 1) Hp vs low End Torque 2) Street Manners 3) Maintenance
Also remember that very aggressive big lobe cams (.600+) need those heavy duty special double springs which can cost $300+ for the set, not to mention the retainers, etc to go with them. All in all $600 - $900 just in springs etc. is not cheap, now add to this thought process that you will need to REPLACE all the springs on a high lift cam every two years it starts to add up in your racing budget. Not to mention that you need special tools and a full weekend to pull the heads, clean them, refresh them, reinstall them... the head and cam package you bought might cost you about $600 - $1200 every two years to maintain depending the the quality parts you buy and if you do the labor yourself or not. For example on the LG Cam page (http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...oducts_id=1509) the GX1 and down are not too bad, but once you hit the GX2 you start to hit .595 and .608 (intake/exhaust) and by the GX3 cam which pulls like a monster after 1800 rpm, you are at .600/.610 and this cam will eat your springs in 2 years even if you do not run the motor all that much based on sheer tension and compression at this lift. Do not just plan for power, but for finances and whether you can do the work yourself or afford to pay someone to. Also do not forget that these big cam motors will require more routine maintenance than a stocker LS1 or LS6 cam will.
For drag racing its all about HP on the dyno, big lift big lobe top HP is all that matters.
For road racing corner speed is the most important, you want torque as you exit the corners which means higher exit speeds.
Texas Speed makes a cam called the V2 Torquer with stats of: 232/234 .595/.598 with a 112 (http://texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp...d=898&catid=15)
LG MotorSports makes a good came in the similar range: G5X1 228/232 .588/.574 with 112/114 & G5X2 232/240 .595/.608 with 112/114 (http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...oducts_id=1509)
Again be warned once you cross the dreaded .600 mark the car starts to become less streetable and more race track only car. Street manners and cold idle can get poor. AND once again be warned that as you cross .600 on your way to .650 you need to start changing out your heads springs on a regular basis form the high amount of pre-load even when the car is at rest and not on the track. This means more regular maintenance and if you cant do this yourself more money. Once you cross .650 you are changing springs once ever year. Think about this in your decision. I would rather give up 10 RWHP to spend $1000 less a year and spend more time driving, less time fixing IMHO. But I do HPDE. In wheel to wheel competition for $$ racing you don't win without pushing the envelope and spending the big bucks.
When you choose a Cam remember a few things: 1) Hp vs low End Torque 2) Street Manners 3) Maintenance
Also remember that very aggressive big lobe cams (.600+) need those heavy duty special double springs which can cost $300+ for the set, not to mention the retainers, etc to go with them. All in all $600 - $900 just in springs etc. is not cheap, now add to this thought process that you will need to REPLACE all the springs on a high lift cam every two years it starts to add up in your racing budget. Not to mention that you need special tools and a full weekend to pull the heads, clean them, refresh them, reinstall them... the head and cam package you bought might cost you about $600 - $1200 every two years to maintain depending the the quality parts you buy and if you do the labor yourself or not. For example on the LG Cam page (http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...oducts_id=1509) the GX1 and down are not too bad, but once you hit the GX2 you start to hit .595 and .608 (intake/exhaust) and by the GX3 cam which pulls like a monster after 1800 rpm, you are at .600/.610 and this cam will eat your springs in 2 years even if you do not run the motor all that much based on sheer tension and compression at this lift. Do not just plan for power, but for finances and whether you can do the work yourself or afford to pay someone to. Also do not forget that these big cam motors will require more routine maintenance than a stocker LS1 or LS6 cam will.
For drag racing its all about HP on the dyno, big lift big lobe top HP is all that matters.
For road racing corner speed is the most important, you want torque as you exit the corners which means higher exit speeds.
Texas Speed makes a cam called the V2 Torquer with stats of: 232/234 .595/.598 with a 112 (http://texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp...d=898&catid=15)
LG MotorSports makes a good came in the similar range: G5X1 228/232 .588/.574 with 112/114 & G5X2 232/240 .595/.608 with 112/114 (http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...oducts_id=1509)
Again be warned once you cross the dreaded .600 mark the car starts to become less streetable and more race track only car. Street manners and cold idle can get poor. AND once again be warned that as you cross .600 on your way to .650 you need to start changing out your heads springs on a regular basis form the high amount of pre-load even when the car is at rest and not on the track. This means more regular maintenance and if you cant do this yourself more money. Once you cross .650 you are changing springs once ever year. Think about this in your decision. I would rather give up 10 RWHP to spend $1000 less a year and spend more time driving, less time fixing IMHO. But I do HPDE. In wheel to wheel competition for $$ racing you don't win without pushing the envelope and spending the big bucks.
When you talk to me about cams, you have to speak slowly and avoid big words. This stuff makes my head hurt.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
For a road racing / track day cam, keep the lift below .590.
smaller cams tend to be hotter out of corners and UP to speed. Larger cams have more top end.
I think the V2 Torquer with stats of: 232/234 .595/.598 on a 112 would be a very good off the shelf cam even with the lift above .590
But for extended track day events AND DD, 232/234 .588/.588 112+2 or some where in that range.
the G5X1 228/232 .588/.574
track day engines are NOT dyno KINGS, but tongue monsters.
and to all you nanny's I will let you know I saw JCS driving a Nissan pass a S/C Calloway this past weekend on the track.
Which I had a pic. I was two cars back in the right seat.
But great job JCS.
smaller cams tend to be hotter out of corners and UP to speed. Larger cams have more top end.
I think the V2 Torquer with stats of: 232/234 .595/.598 on a 112 would be a very good off the shelf cam even with the lift above .590
But for extended track day events AND DD, 232/234 .588/.588 112+2 or some where in that range.
the G5X1 228/232 .588/.574
track day engines are NOT dyno KINGS, but tongue monsters.
and to all you nanny's I will let you know I saw JCS driving a Nissan pass a S/C Calloway this past weekend on the track.
Which I had a pic. I was two cars back in the right seat.
But great job JCS.
Last edited by AU N EGL; Jul 1, 2012 at 09:41 AM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 22,681
Likes: 798
From: Hillsborough NC
NC Events Coordinator
For a road racing / track day cam, keep the lift below .590.
smaller cams tend to be hotter out of corners and UP to speed. Larger cams have more top end.
I think the V2 Torquer with stats of: 232/234 .595/.598 on a 112 would be a very good off the shelf cam even with the lift above .590
But for extended track day events AND DD, 232/234 .588/.588 112+2 or some where in that range.
the G5X1 228/232 .588/.574
track day engines are NOT dyno KINGS, but tongue monsters.
smaller cams tend to be hotter out of corners and UP to speed. Larger cams have more top end.
I think the V2 Torquer with stats of: 232/234 .595/.598 on a 112 would be a very good off the shelf cam even with the lift above .590
But for extended track day events AND DD, 232/234 .588/.588 112+2 or some where in that range.
the G5X1 228/232 .588/.574
track day engines are NOT dyno KINGS, but tongue monsters.
Listening to the engine sounds in the dozens of videos of VIR I've watched, it's obvious that a lot of guys are in 4th gear a good bit of the time and just work the throttle instead of shifting all the time. That takes some mid-range torque and flexibility.
I saw JCS driving a Nissan pass a S/C Calloway this past weekend on the track.
Which I had a pic. I was two cars back in the right seat.
But great job JCS.
Which I had a pic. I was two cars back in the right seat.
But great job JCS.
Luckily, you didn't see my adventures at Oak Tree. I drove it so poorly, and that front-driver pushed so much, that I finally ended up putting my left two wheels off there.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
VIR is a 3rd and 4th gear track.
Occasionally, in traffic, down shift to 2nd for T4 and T11a ( Oak Tree)
I run VIR in 3 and 4th. with a little skill you can slide around Oak tree turn in 3rd about 50-52 mph, But you have to slide. a little throttle steer to get the rear end to slide slightly left ( Advance Driver School )before you roll your right foot to the floor to hit red line 3rd gear about 100 ft shy of the south course timing tower, Shift to 4th roll the right foot to the floor again and crest the hill at 150 mph up to red line at 152, then brake HARD down to the 1 marker, downshift 3rd, and SLIGHT turn left just past the arrow. brake again, HARD right hand turn and down the roller coaster.
I run consistent 2:07s to 2:10s on used Hoosiers GAs and down to 2:05s on new Hoosier A's not the fastest but OK times.
My LS6 has a little 224 / 224 581/581 112+4 cam
Occasionally, in traffic, down shift to 2nd for T4 and T11a ( Oak Tree)
I run VIR in 3 and 4th. with a little skill you can slide around Oak tree turn in 3rd about 50-52 mph, But you have to slide. a little throttle steer to get the rear end to slide slightly left ( Advance Driver School )before you roll your right foot to the floor to hit red line 3rd gear about 100 ft shy of the south course timing tower, Shift to 4th roll the right foot to the floor again and crest the hill at 150 mph up to red line at 152, then brake HARD down to the 1 marker, downshift 3rd, and SLIGHT turn left just past the arrow. brake again, HARD right hand turn and down the roller coaster.
I run consistent 2:07s to 2:10s on used Hoosiers GAs and down to 2:05s on new Hoosier A's not the fastest but OK times.
My LS6 has a little 224 / 224 581/581 112+4 cam
Last edited by AU N EGL; Jul 1, 2012 at 11:42 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,585
Likes: 15
From: New Hartford IA
I'd say the cam you had is mild for a 418 so are you wanting the car to be smoother/drive better or just want a change? It's not like a few thousandths extra lift is going to make or break the cam. You want softer lobes (slower ramp rates) like marine, XE or lxl from the comp cam family or custom from other brands.
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Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 22,681
Likes: 798
From: Hillsborough NC
NC Events Coordinator
You want softer lobes (slower ramp rates) like marine, XE or lxl from the comp cam family or custom from other brands.
I'm just doing this to have fun and improve as a driver. The track record will never be in jeopardy when I'm out there. I want a car that's pretty much bulletproof and easy to maintain.
Last edited by jcsperson; Jul 1, 2012 at 01:16 PM.