Thread locker or Anti-seize on headers?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 233
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From: Macon GA
Thread locker or Anti-seize on headers?
OK, I have done the search thing and still haven’t found a satisfactory answer. The question is what thread locker or anti-seize should I use on header bolts? The service manual for my car (2000 A4) says to use GM 12345493 or like equivalent. So I did extensive research and finally determined that Permatex #27200 (High Temp Red) is the equivalent of GM 12345493. Now the confusion. The Permatex stuff is a thread locker. Shouldn’t you use an anti-seize in the aluminum heads? 
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Dyer, IN
OK, I have done the search thing and still haven’t found a satisfactory answer. The question is what thread locker or anti-seize should I use on header bolts? The service manual for my car (2000 A4) says to use GM 12345493 or like equivalent. So I did extensive research and finally determined that Permatex #27200 (High Temp Red) is the equivalent of GM 12345493. Now the confusion. The Permatex stuff is a thread locker. Shouldn’t you use an anti-seize in the aluminum heads?
Racer
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: South Bend IN
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Dyer, IN
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Blue Ridge Georgia
I've had lots of headers in the past. And have tried all different ways. Here's what I do. I use anti seize on the threads and I buy the expensive bolts that have the Allen head lock screw in the center of the head that locks the bolt in. I have never had any problems with those bolts.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
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From: Western NY
Personally, I think there's some confusion in terminology going on here. GM "red" thread locker is a fairly mild product, similar to a product called "Vibra-Tite". It's like a liquid lock washer.
Loctite "red" is some serious s**t, used for fasteners that you NEVER want to easily come apart.....
Loctite "red" is some serious s**t, used for fasteners that you NEVER want to easily come apart.....
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Dyer, IN
Not only is Permatex interchangeable with the GM part number in the service manual............it's probably one in the same. http://www.permatex.com/documents/td...tive/24026.pdf
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,367
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From: Western NY
I disagree. Do you think GM makes their own threadlocker in Detroit? Not only is Permatex interchangeable with the GM part number in the service manual............it's probably one in the same.
http://www.permatex.com/documents/td...tive/24026.pdf
Not only is Permatex interchangeable with the GM part number in the service manual............it's probably one in the same. http://www.permatex.com/documents/td...tive/24026.pdf
For instance, you want exhaust manifold/header bolts to remain tight, yet still be removable with a reasonable amount of force. You also want the threads to remain undamaged when those bolts are removed. That is why GM recommends THAT particular locking compound.
There is a different thread locking compound made by the LOCTITE Corporation, which also happens to be red, to differentiate it from the other products in THEIR product line, which creates a bond that is almost as strong as welding the bolt in place. In fact, in order to remove a fastener installed with this thread locker, the product instruction sheet recommends the use of a torch.
I highly doubt you'd want that product used on header bolts......
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Tech Contributor
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From: Dyer, IN
Le Mans Master
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From: Columbia SC
I would never put thread locker on bolts or studs into the head, especially Loctite "Red" which is for when you don't want to remove the fastener. I would use anti seize for removal ease and either use specially locking fasteners as discussed in the post or just check tightness once a year,etc. based on how many thermal cycles (heatup/cooldown) you go through.
Pro
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From: Montgomery Texas
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: PNW
For Disassembly
1. Apply localized heat to nut or bolt to approximately 260°C
(500°F). Disassemble while hot.
A PIA ...
1. Apply localized heat to nut or bolt to approximately 260°C
(500°F). Disassemble while hot.
A PIA ...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: PNW
Speaking of ... if GM uses this thread lock from the factory (or are they really?), how are guys that remove the OEM manifolds finding it difficult to remove the bolts, or snapping off bolts if they don't know it should be heated up to 500 deg F before removal?
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: South Western Ontario
Some comments in this thread border on stupidity.
I suppose we should all blindly follow the factory for everything. After all, they manage to build perfect car without any defects. And they most certainly must have taken into account the use of aftermarket parts and the fact the cars might be modified when they wrote the manual.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,367
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From: Western NY
Mine came off pretty easily, and since I was re-installing the OE manifolds, I cleaned the threads of the bolts and used anti-sieze for the re-installation.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Farmington CT
Cruise-In VII Veteran
I've had lots of headers in the past. And have tried all different ways. Here's what I do. I use anti seize on the threads and I buy the expensive bolts that have the Allen head lock screw in the center of the head that locks the bolt in. I have never had any problems with those bolts.
