Anti Seize lubrication question
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 71
From: MA
Anti Seize lubrication question
Do you reduce your torque numbers when using anti seize? I have a chart for lubed and non-lubed torques. Lubed is roughly 3/4 of non lubed.
Opinions please.
Opinions please.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,338
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From: Western NY
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 71
From: MA
Permatex is 80-90% oil
I realize that Permatex recommends factory torque, but I checked their Material Data Sheet and it is 80-90% oil! That sure sounds like a lubricant! In fact, they call their anti-seize a lubricant!'
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 71
From: MA
Use listed torque?
I used anti seize on my intake manifold bolts with stock torque recommendations. I just removed the intake manifold again and found some aluminum flakes on the bolt threads when I inspected them 
. The only thing that I can attribute this to is perhaps the torque was to high due to the bolts being lubed. Maybe I should have reduced the torque by about 20 to 25%.
. The only thing that I can attribute this to is perhaps the torque was to high due to the bolts being lubed. Maybe I should have reduced the torque by about 20 to 25%.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: At the beach in little Rhody
Yes, torque is reduced if the specified torque is for an un-lubricated connection.
Torque is used as a very inaccurate measure of the bolt stretch. The actual stretch can vary by a large amount depending on the friction. Lubrication is a way to obtain more consistent stretch, but the torque value for a given stretch is reduced from un-lubricated as a result. 3/4 is the textbook "simplified" value and is likely well within the measuring accuracy of a normal torque wrench.
Torque is used as a very inaccurate measure of the bolt stretch. The actual stretch can vary by a large amount depending on the friction. Lubrication is a way to obtain more consistent stretch, but the torque value for a given stretch is reduced from un-lubricated as a result. 3/4 is the textbook "simplified" value and is likely well within the measuring accuracy of a normal torque wrench.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2011
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From: Olmsted Falls Ohio
St. Jude Donor '12 thru '24
Some lubes will specify the use of a different torque, such as ARP thread sealants and such. Last time I used that stuff on head bolts for a Gen 1 SBC the torque was reduced by 10 lb/ft over other lubes and dry threads. Best to check the product recommendations.
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Brett Foote
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Columbia SC
Having fastener design experience in the nuclear industry, if the original torque was for dry (unlubricated) threads I would reduce the torque by 20%.
There is a lot of industry experience on this which shows a need to reduce torque by 25%on average. I would rather be over on the torque about 5% than below. A little over by that amount should be well within the fastener strength capability.
There is a lot of industry experience on this which shows a need to reduce torque by 25%on average. I would rather be over on the torque about 5% than below. A little over by that amount should be well within the fastener strength capability.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2009
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Unless otherwise stated, all torque specifications are in the dry condition. Torque values are raised or lowered based on the amount of friction present betweent the two surfaces. Lubricants completely change those torque specs and that is why a rule of thumb is to never apply any sort of lubricant to wheel lugs, for example. As others have stated, if lubricants are used, then revised torque specifications need to be calculated or obtained.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 71
From: MA
Read this thread, all two pages. Page 2 has some interesting comments from a Loctite employee.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...ing-bolts.html
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...ing-bolts.html
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 71
From: MA
Called Permatex
I called Permatex and asked about torque values. Their Tech Data Sheet says to use factory torque values. Their tech department didn't have any idea if this is correct. I doubt that it is because it is a lubricant. They supposedly are checking their recommendation and will contact me. Will let everyone know IF I hear from them.