i had the same thought and i'll give you the quick version of a few hours of research

1. you will never beat the feel of organic for a daily driver

2. the ls7 complete package weighs 60lbs. you can get that down to 48-50 with a fidanza flywheel BUT by switching up you should have the clutch balanced at the machine shop since GM balances clutch kits as a package

3. the monster level 1 is gram balanced +- 4 grams and comes with your choice of a 18 or 28lb flywheel and an organic disc with a stronger non self adjusting pressure plate. one of the reasons the OE clutch gets sticky when driven hard is that self adjusting plate

my take was the monster will be a more performance oriented clutch than the ls7 while still offering that smooth engagement. the drawback? well a stock ls7 kit is what? 500 ? the monster is 700 or more so you're talking 50% more money to go from 60lbs to either 43lbs or 53lbs depending on what flywheel you choose. of course you also won't likely have the sticky pedal problem either

i ordered a monster level 1 over the ls7 and that's more or less why

 

Don't forget that $460 gets you the LS7 but you still need to add the slave, pilot bearing and release bearing which adds about $200 more. Once you add those parts, the $760 Level 2 Premium Monster clutch kit which already includes those parts looks like a hell of a good deal. If you're stock you could use a Level 1 and save $30.

 

it's not really about the money in the 1 vs the 2 it's in the superior performance of an organic disc in daily driving situations

the 1,2 and 3 are all the same clutch, it's just which friction material you want

i've driven organic, kevlar and ceramic and will HEAVILY favor the organic in a daily driver that sees traffic duty

if you're making over 450lb of torque or beat on it a lot then you're forced into something a little more hardcore and or multidisc clutches

 

The 1 and 2 both appear to have organic friction material with some carbon blended into it. They should both drive similar. I haven't heard anyone complain about the 2 doing bad things. The 3 has full ceramic friction pucks on it. Very different than the 1 and 2.

 

They are sometimes rubber Gublois but yes, the rubber couplers in the torque tube can and will give you significant issues when they come apart.

Bill

 

I helped a guy in Canada who had a severe vibration after he installed his new aftermarket clutch and flywheel.

He replaced everything and didn't have a clue about engine balance. Apparently, his old flywheel had a significant amount of OEM weight and it was never transfered or considered.

Even worse, he tossed his old flywheel once it was removed.
SO,,,, I recommended that he contact a precision balancing company that does on site machine balancing of rotating assemblies. He googgled the topic for a company in his area and found one.

The guy came out and analyzed his engine and he was able to provide him with the exact point of imbalance and how much weight to add. He added Stainless Steel washers under one of the pressure plate bolts and resolved the issue!

So,,, there is another solution to an imbalance issues.

Bill

 

the 2 is kevlar. it's not really too bad but they can glaze in stop and go traffic. the one kevlar clutch i had in a c4 didn't chatter at all but it was pretty grabby. just depends on a persons intended us and hp as to which one is better

 

after spending about 3 hours reading yesterday and getting a good handle on what you were saying something occurred to me. we don't really know if the weights were there to balance the clutch assembly OR if they were a fine tune on the engine. simply transferring weight would seem to be guessing which may be part of the reason GM updated that bulletin.

if someone has a good deal of weight on the flywheel it would seem that the only way to really know and be trouble free would be to take both clutch assemblies to the machine shop and have them offset balance the new clutch exactly like the old one

 

The 2 is the same friction material as the 1. They released a new version.

And yes, balance the new clutch to match the balance of the old clutch. Don't just add the same amount of weight.

 

you call and ask them ? almost looks like a web mistake. they just updated the site 2 weeks ago when the sale was over. wonder if a mistake got made.

it would be cool if they did create an organic that could handle more power with a higher carbon content and stronger pressure plate but my money is on web mistake

 

Ok after doing some research and listening to opinions,

I'm thinking the Monster stage 2 is my best bet, a little more $$ then the LS7 clutch but if i spray a 100+shot down the road or go FI , I should have a little more confidence in this one holding up.

Anyone know a better place to buy it?

this is the best price i've found so far.

http://www.tickperformance.com/monst...-capacity-550/


so according to the general public here i should take my clutch & flywheel to a place that can balance test these? and possibly shave some material off if necessary

 

you can order from monster direct

i would see if they will price match and i would ask what the deal is with the stage 2 since they now have a picture of an organic disc

long story short on the balance is mark your flywheel position on the engine before you remove it. once removed inspect the flywheel for balance weights. if you have some take the full clutch package with you along with your new one and have the new clutch offset to the same weight as the old.

then, have the machine shop mark your new clutch so you know where the balance weight is relative to your old clutch and how to install it. you don't want to counterbalance a flywheel 8 grams then bolt it on 2 holes off.

chirs at monster has said they haven't had a car that's had a vibration issue with their clutches AND GM also says the counterbalance isn't necessary via the update.

really comes down to which camp you go with.

if you don't counterbalance don't thrown your old stuff out and make sure you mark how it attached. if you do have a problem at least then you could fix it without getting specialty balance shops involved

 

So Monster clutches don't need to be balanced and GM says there's no need to transfer any old FW weights to a new clutch assembly?

Also, does the torque tube, trans, and diff drop as 1 piece? Going to be doing this job in the fall or winter to replace my slipping stock unit.

 

that's the weird part. everything bill said on the 1st page is totally true about the counterbalance and gm firing each manual trans corvette to check that the engine/clutch was no more than 1/2 ounce out of balance.

the ls1/6 is also an internal balance engine

but

that doesn't mean that an engine may not sneak past that's 1oz out of balance and gets a final correction on the flywheel to bring it down under half an ounce.

if you checked your old pressure plate and flywheel and they were only a few grams out of balance you would know that a monster would bolt on just fine.

if your old combo was something like 16 grams out of balance that's a red flag that your car was externally corrected and you will have a vibration if you don't counterbalance your new combo

if this whole thing sounds clear as mud it's because it is. on one hand GM and chirs say a zero balanced clutch package will work

on the other, i know how engine balancing works and if an ls engine cleared internal balance more than .5oz out of wack you would have a vibration problem unless it was corrected via the flywheel, which is what bill was pointing out

i'm speculating that a small % of cars were corrected with enough weight to be noticed and i only base that on answers from clutch builders who bolt these things in everyday and say they have no issue along with GM telling techs NOT to transfer weights on clutch jobs. also keep in mind this is ONLY for stock motors. a true gram balanced built motor will be very happy with a zero balanced clutch. this whole chat is about stock engines and how to stay within that 1/2 ounce rule which is GM spec.

monster gets their clutches +- 4 grams which i suppose would mean your bottom end could be up to 10 grams off from the factory....which is actually quite a bit beings the average race motor is balanced within 1 gram.

when i do mine, my game plan is to pull it all. if i have one weight or a small amount of correction i'll run the monster as is

if i have 3-4 weights all in tight synch i'll take the clutch in along with the old one and have it counterbalanced to the same degree as the old unit

one would hope the ls6 has a tighter internal balance since it had a higher redline and was the performance engine of the day

 

Just an FYI. My car had the clutch replaced when I got it. It's got a vibration around 2000rpm. Not terrible, but bad enough I doubt they'd ship the car like that. However, I have no idea how a factory original C5 would compare.

 

or what caused it

GM and others only sell complete balanced packages. if someone did a pressure plate and disc and re used your old flywheel and didn't balance it, you could have a really off clutch assembly. with a different pressure plate it throws everything off.

that's not even counting this whole discussion we have going about engine counterbalancing

any idea what happened? what clutch is in it and how much effort went into your clutch replacement?

 

Ya, it looks stock but I have no idea what they did. I've got lots of receipts for oil changes and a few other repairs but no clutch receipts. However, it seems almost every clutch for a C5 includes the flywheel (because every stock clutch was shipped balanced as an assembly) so the flywheel likely was not re-used.

 

I hope this is not a highjack.

I am a week away from swapping my A4 to an RPM Stage 5 MN12.

So... to summarize the above posts:

Factory A4 engines should be neutral balanced.
I purchased a new GM flywheel and LS6 clutch/pressure plate from GM Partshouse.
I took the flywheel and pressue plate to a machine shop to be neutral balanced.

I should be good to go now. Correct?

Thanks

 

ALL......... A4 cars, have an internally balanced engine.. ALL,,,, MN6/MN12 cars go thru an additional flywheel& dampener balancing step.

That step gets the engine much closer to zero balance. The manual cars are more sensitive minor off balance issues that A4 cars are imune to.

Having a ZERO balanced flywheel DOES NOT guarantee that you will not feel some drive train vibrations after switching gear boxes.

Without that finial step, you very well could have some vibration issues.

Bill

 

I just installed a Mcleod twin setup and as much as I was in a hurry I took the flywheel and clutch assembly into the machine shop and had it balanced. It was 28G off!!!!!


One these cars this IS NOT the part to try and save or rush on...LOL I never missed my mustang days so much as when I was doing the motor and clutch work..LOL