Harmonic Balancer/UD Pulley - what else?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,938
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From: Rochester Hills MI
Harmonic Balancer/UD Pulley - what else?
Which underdrive pulley is the best? I'm leaning towards BBK or ATI, but the ATI is sooo expensive.
What is the best kit for pinning the crank?
Should I replace any wear components along the way? Front crank seal, timing chain, etc? car is a 99 w 135k.
Any chance it could have the tapped holes for a chain dampener? I recall someone made some dampeners that had the proper hole spacing for an ls1, but I don't know if they are still selling them.
What is the best kit for pinning the crank?
Should I replace any wear components along the way? Front crank seal, timing chain, etc? car is a 99 w 135k.
Any chance it could have the tapped holes for a chain dampener? I recall someone made some dampeners that had the proper hole spacing for an ls1, but I don't know if they are still selling them.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Pasco WA
IMO, the best pulley, for the money is Powerbond. I've used a%25 when I was NA, and now have a stock size PB (pinned) on my SC'd car. A&A Corvettes has a simple kit for pinning. ATI is probably the very best, but as you know, $$$$. Definitely replace the crank seal, and I would advise getting at least a LS2 chain, and maybe a Melling oil pump. My '02 LS6 block didn't have the holes, but yours might.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Well,, My 02 Z block did. 
I installed the chain dampener.
Recommend ARP Dampener bolt!!
Recommend Powerbond and use the ATI Pinning kit. Cost a little more but, man is its NICE!
Melling Oil pump!!
LS2 timing chain!!! (which now replaces the LS1 chain)
Suck out all the antifreeze when you have the pump off with a wet and dry vac. When you refill you will get a better flush. Clean the readiator and AC Condensor well!
NOTE CAUTION WARNING! MAKE SURE that you install the oil pump pick up O ring without damaging it!! Lube it good with dielectric grease, lube the oil pump hole with grease.
BC
I installed the chain dampener.Recommend ARP Dampener bolt!!
Recommend Powerbond and use the ATI Pinning kit. Cost a little more but, man is its NICE!
Melling Oil pump!!
LS2 timing chain!!! (which now replaces the LS1 chain)
Suck out all the antifreeze when you have the pump off with a wet and dry vac. When you refill you will get a better flush. Clean the readiator and AC Condensor well!
NOTE CAUTION WARNING! MAKE SURE that you install the oil pump pick up O ring without damaging it!! Lube it good with dielectric grease, lube the oil pump hole with grease.
BC
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,938
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From: Rochester Hills MI
Thanks for the suggestions Bill. Is there no need to replace the sprockets when you do a new chain? Where did you get your chain dampener? I've also read some that the new replacement chain is the new LT1 chain from the c7. Can anyone confirm?
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Pasco WA
Bill, do you know when your block was manufactured? My car was finished on Nov. 23, 2001. There was a time those chain dampeners were impossible to find. I've been inside the cover at least 3 times, and would have loved to use one.
Last edited by zeevette; Sep 11, 2013 at 04:37 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,938
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From: Rochester Hills MI
here is the thread about the LT1 timing chain:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ing-chain.html
and I found a place that sells the dampeners:
http://store.katechengines.com/dampe...-ls6-p260.aspx
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ing-chain.html
and I found a place that sells the dampeners:
http://store.katechengines.com/dampe...-ls6-p260.aspx
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,337
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From: Western NY
I recently installed a new harmonic damper, as well as timing chain and chain damper, on my '01. I got one of these Trick Flow adapter kits for my car from Total Engine Airflow ( LS Timing Chain Bracket and damper Combo,TFS-30675600-K). They now show OE chain dampers as available, but A) they didn't show them when I bought my parts a couple of months back, and (B) I didn't know if my block was drilled and tapped for the OE damper...it was.
I also bought my LS2 timing chain from them.
I also bought my LS2 timing chain from them.
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Racer
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From: Ohio
Agreed^^^^^ Call Jason at Katech and ask him why they only suggest to Run a stock Gm balancer or an ATI
Long story short here: Balancer is designed to absorbe vibrations and not let them vibrate and ratttle your crank, timing chain, berrings and engine internals....when this happens your wear out parts like berrings, and break timing chains..
Jason @ Katech told me the run there Vettes on the 24hr endurance races and have never ever seen a C5R (the top line Timing Chain bad boy) break besides when someone used a cheap balancer.....
Also stay the heck away from a Melling Oil Pump!!!! **** pour design and tolerances, had on blow a motor up on break in and seen it happen to 3 or 4 other Ls cars
Long story short here: Balancer is designed to absorbe vibrations and not let them vibrate and ratttle your crank, timing chain, berrings and engine internals....when this happens your wear out parts like berrings, and break timing chains..
Jason @ Katech told me the run there Vettes on the 24hr endurance races and have never ever seen a C5R (the top line Timing Chain bad boy) break besides when someone used a cheap balancer.....
Also stay the heck away from a Melling Oil Pump!!!! **** pour design and tolerances, had on blow a motor up on break in and seen it happen to 3 or 4 other Ls cars
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Rochester Hills MI
Does the stock replacment balancer still have the separation issue, or is there a new part that fixes the problem?
Thinking about going with stock.
Going with the ported gm oil pump from lingenfelter:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...Store_Code=LPE
Thinking about going with stock.
Going with the ported gm oil pump from lingenfelter:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...Store_Code=LPE
Last edited by SaberD; Sep 13, 2013 at 08:05 PM.
Team Owner
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From: Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed.
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
Like Bill Curlee, I too have been using a PowerBond 25% underdrive unit for 2 or 3 years now with ZERO issues.
HTH
HTH
Last edited by LoneStarFRC; Sep 14, 2013 at 09:16 AM. Reason: add info
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
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From: Western NY
I'm not quite as young and ambitious as I used to be. I just don't have the physical flexibility that I used to have, and also lost some precious work space that I used to have, so my desire to work on cars has diminished over the last 2-3 years. Having said that, I went with the ATI damper because it's a known good piece, and this job is enough of a PITA, that I don't want to do it again.....
Tech Contributor
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Does the stock replacment balancer still have the separation issue, or is there a new part that fixes the problem?
Thinking about going with stock.
Going with the ported gm oil pump from lingenfelter:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...Store_Code=LPE
Thinking about going with stock.
Going with the ported gm oil pump from lingenfelter:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...Store_Code=LPE
The stock OEM damper is the same damper as it was since 97. There have been ZERO changes. I am very surprised at people recommending " Either use OEM or ATI" OEM??? Seriously??? The OEM hub and outer ring are NOT retained and only bonded together. Enough time and heat and the outer ring will separate and come off.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Jackson Tn
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09
ATI is the best. Sometimes you can find it on Ebay where ATI sells blems out the back door. Nothing really wrong with them either. I bought one years ago like that. You just have to watch.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,938
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From: Rochester Hills MI
Ati it is. Anyone know the mass of the 10% ud ati balancer in comparison to the stock one?
Surprised they are still making that crappy part as the stock replacement even though it has known issues.
Surprised they are still making that crappy part as the stock replacement even though it has known issues.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,337
Likes: 1,590
From: Western NY
Probably because some people don't want to spend $400 for a harmonic balancer, vs. $75 for an OE replacement. One thing that I've always wondered is how many of the OE balancers actually fail. Yes, we here at CF tend to be a bunch of "hard core" gearheads, who want both the best performance from our cars, as well as the best parts in order to obtain that performance. But how many LS series engines are running around for 100-150,000 miles in Escalades, Tahoes, Camaros, and even UPS trucks, that still have the damper still intact?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,458
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From: Northville Michigan
The answer is to look at almost every Professional LS engine - ATI.
As to which underdrive ratio to use - 10%.
Then on this forum, we read where many 25% underdrive pulley customers say, "I have been running my pulley for a thousand years and nothing has gone wrong."
We as users should have more faith that GM Powertrain engineers didn't pick the pulley and damper drive sizes so that speed shop owners could sell 25% underdrive pulleys.
In engineering terms, a 25% underdrive pulley is stupid.
We as Corvette Forum owners turn our engines to a higher rpm than the owners of Corvette trailer queens so a 10% underdrive pulley makes engineering sense, but let's not overdo it.
-
As to which underdrive ratio to use - 10%.
- Months have been spent by GM Powertrain engineers getting the pulley ratios perfected so that the alternator charges properly for all electrical usage.
- Months have been spent by GM Powertrain engineers getting the water pump pulley properly sized so that effective cooling is achieved for all weather conditions.
- Months have been spent by GM Powertrain engineers getting the power steering pump pulley properly sized so that the pump can keep up with the movement of your steering wheel.
Then on this forum, we read where many 25% underdrive pulley customers say, "I have been running my pulley for a thousand years and nothing has gone wrong."
We as users should have more faith that GM Powertrain engineers didn't pick the pulley and damper drive sizes so that speed shop owners could sell 25% underdrive pulleys.
In engineering terms, a 25% underdrive pulley is stupid.
We as Corvette Forum owners turn our engines to a higher rpm than the owners of Corvette trailer queens so a 10% underdrive pulley makes engineering sense, but let's not overdo it.
-
Last edited by Pumba; Sep 15, 2013 at 12:17 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,938
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From: Rochester Hills MI
Couldn't agree more Pumba. That's why I always do as much research as possible when installing non-oem parts. Even though the ATI is a very high quality part, from what I've read it is also lighter than the oem pulley, most likely resulting in less dampening...
I think I'm going to have the GM dealer order me both the LS2 chain and new LT1 chain and take a pair of calipers with me to make sure the roller diameter, inside width, and link lengths are the same.
I think I'm going to have the GM dealer order me both the LS2 chain and new LT1 chain and take a pair of calipers with me to make sure the roller diameter, inside width, and link lengths are the same.
Last edited by SaberD; Sep 15, 2013 at 11:35 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
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From: Pasco WA
The answer is to look at almost every Professional LS engine - ATI.
As to which underdrive ratio to use - 10%.
Then on this forum, we read where many 25% underdrive pulley customers say, "I have been running my pulley for a thousand years and nothing has gone wrong."
We as users should have more faith that GM Powertrain engineers didn't pick the pulley and damper drive sizes so that speed shop owners could sell 25% underdrive pulleys.
In engineering terms, a 25% underdrive pulley is stupid.
We as Corvette Forum owners turn our engines to a higher rpm than the owners of Corvette trailer queens so a 10% underdrive pulley makes engineering sense, but let's not overdo it.
-
As to which underdrive ratio to use - 10%.
- Months have been spent by GM Powertrain engineers getting the pulley ratios perfected so that the alternator charges properly for all electrical usage.
- Months have been spent by GM Powertrain engineers getting the water pump pulley properly sized so that effective cooling is achieved for all weather conditions.
- Months have been spent by GM Powertrain engineers getting the power steering pump pulley properly sized so that the pump can keep up with the movement of your steering wheel.
Then on this forum, we read where many 25% underdrive pulley customers say, "I have been running my pulley for a thousand years and nothing has gone wrong."
We as users should have more faith that GM Powertrain engineers didn't pick the pulley and damper drive sizes so that speed shop owners could sell 25% underdrive pulleys.
In engineering terms, a 25% underdrive pulley is stupid.
We as Corvette Forum owners turn our engines to a higher rpm than the owners of Corvette trailer queens so a 10% underdrive pulley makes engineering sense, but let's not overdo it.
-
This is nearly total BS. Do what you want, except use the OEM dampener. It's a proven POS, regardless of the infallibility of GM engineers. I remember when my daughter had a in-tank fuel pump go bad, and they replaced it 4 times in two years with the same defective factory part. (not Corvette, but indicative of automakers)
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,337
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From: Western NY
This is nearly total BS. Do what you want, except use the OEM dampener. It's a proven POS, regardless of the infallibility of GM engineers. I remember when my daughter had a in-tank fuel pump go bad, and they replaced it 4 times in two years with the same defective factory part. (not Corvette, but indicative of automakers)
"Pumba" wasn't talking about the quality of the OE harmonic balancer, just the OD of it, in relation to the rest of the pulleys.....
