Multiple C/I/H build questions
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 216
Likes: 15
From: N/A N/A
Multiple C/I/H build questions
Hello all,
I have a 2001 Z06 and in April I plan to do a moderate build; cam, fast, headers. Right now the car only has a vararam and corsa extremes.
First question is relative to the cam. I am not looking for anything aggressive. My buddy has a 228 and I could perhaps go a little more aggressive but something in this range. Any recommendations are very welcome. I do NOT want to sacrifice "streetability." My main question is what accessories are CRUCIAL? I want to do this the right way. Timing chain, springs, etc...all the way to spark plugs. What are the necessary supporting mods when doing a cam swap?
Second question is with the fast intake. Thinking 92mm with appropriate throttle body. Is the 102 overkill for this kind of set up? I figure that might be best left for the boys with superchargers. Any input on this would be appreciated.
Last question is for the headers. I am leaning toward ARH 1 7/8". I know 3/4 are enough but in the event I want to go bigger in the future...might as well go 7/8 now. My main question pertains to cats vs no cats. I live in Maryland and I don't think they do anything during emmissions other than plug in. If I'm not throwing codes? Will I be okay? Visual inspection might get me? Anyone with experience in MD? I'm leaning toward just getting cats to make sure I don't have any issues. Any impact on performance? I don't care either way...just trying to cut costs. Also...Any input on headers would be appreciated. I know kooks, ARH, and LGs are considered the best and therefor, the most expensive.
Thanks for the help guys - much appreciated
I have a 2001 Z06 and in April I plan to do a moderate build; cam, fast, headers. Right now the car only has a vararam and corsa extremes.
First question is relative to the cam. I am not looking for anything aggressive. My buddy has a 228 and I could perhaps go a little more aggressive but something in this range. Any recommendations are very welcome. I do NOT want to sacrifice "streetability." My main question is what accessories are CRUCIAL? I want to do this the right way. Timing chain, springs, etc...all the way to spark plugs. What are the necessary supporting mods when doing a cam swap?
Second question is with the fast intake. Thinking 92mm with appropriate throttle body. Is the 102 overkill for this kind of set up? I figure that might be best left for the boys with superchargers. Any input on this would be appreciated.
Last question is for the headers. I am leaning toward ARH 1 7/8". I know 3/4 are enough but in the event I want to go bigger in the future...might as well go 7/8 now. My main question pertains to cats vs no cats. I live in Maryland and I don't think they do anything during emmissions other than plug in. If I'm not throwing codes? Will I be okay? Visual inspection might get me? Anyone with experience in MD? I'm leaning toward just getting cats to make sure I don't have any issues. Any impact on performance? I don't care either way...just trying to cut costs. Also...Any input on headers would be appreciated. I know kooks, ARH, and LGs are considered the best and therefor, the most expensive.
Thanks for the help guys - much appreciated
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
WOW.... Your wallet is going to HATE YOU!
I did ALL the stuff that your going to do.. So, that being said:
I did my 02 ZO6 with the following: Patriot Performance Stage 2 Heads, Cam, Fast 90/90mm TB, Stainless Works 1 3/4 primary LT SS headers 3" mid pipe/mufflers VARARAM and ALl the supporting STUFF and a very good tune.. She made 450 RWHP.
Here is what you will need. If you cut cost, the quality and dependability of your build will suffer!
New Quality Lifters Most use LS7 and are happy
New Lifter trays!
New Pushrods MEASURED with a push rod length checker!!!!
New Rocker Trunions
New Rocker pedestals (Things the rockers sit on)
New valve springs and Ti Retainers
Higher compression ported cylinder heads
New high volume oil pump
New LS2/LS7 timing chain or better
LS6 Style timing chain dampener
The correct CAM (we can discuss the specs later)
LS2 Throttle Body with the correct conversion harness.
New Higher flow injectors I used 42 lb/hour but 36 lb/hr may work for you
PROFESSIONAL TUNE!
FAST 92 intake manifold! I have a fast 90 and I home ported the manifold and the TB. Works fantastic! Im NOT loosing any power because of the manifold and neither will you!
RECOMMENDED UP-GRADES and IMPROVEMENTS!
You dont have to have the following BUT,, knowing what I know now, I wouldnt do the job without them:
ARP Head Studs! Trust me,,, you will thank me after your done!
ARP Dampener Bolt
NEW OEM Dampener or UP-Grade to a powerbond dampener.
Pin the dampener to the crank
Oil Pressure sensor relocation kit
Ceramic Coat your new Headers!!!!
New GM Red Performance Spark Plug Wires
Replace the coolant passage block off plugs on the rear coolant crossover passages with a 2001+ front pipe to gain that steam vent for the heads!
As I was tuning my car on the street, My OEM 50,000 mile clutch started to have issues. The clutch peddle will stick to the floor under full power runs.
New clutch Master Cylinder (OEM is fine) unless you replace the clutch
Install a remote bleeder on the slave system and flush the complete system
I installed a $1200 SPEC Dual disk clutch, new TICK master cul, new slave, new pilpt brg, new throwout bearing and aremote bleeded. My bell housing was cracked so I had to install a new bell housing.
I wanted to up-grade my drivetrain so,, I did the following to the differential.
- C5, ragtopws6 , Upgrading your C5 rear with C6 Z06 guts, : http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...-z06-guts.html
-
- C5, Its_Go_Time, Output Shaft Install - Left and Right: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...post1573407966
- C5 Differential Seal replacement: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...on-photos.html
-
I also changed my OEM MN12 transmission to a C5 converted TRANSZILLA T/60/60 trans with a hardened output shaft
I disasembled my torque tube and inspected the rubber couplers. Mine were fine. Yours may not be. Better check!
I probably missed something. Its a SICKNES
Bill
I did ALL the stuff that your going to do.. So, that being said:
I did my 02 ZO6 with the following: Patriot Performance Stage 2 Heads, Cam, Fast 90/90mm TB, Stainless Works 1 3/4 primary LT SS headers 3" mid pipe/mufflers VARARAM and ALl the supporting STUFF and a very good tune.. She made 450 RWHP.
Here is what you will need. If you cut cost, the quality and dependability of your build will suffer!
New Quality Lifters Most use LS7 and are happy
New Lifter trays!
New Pushrods MEASURED with a push rod length checker!!!!
New Rocker Trunions
New Rocker pedestals (Things the rockers sit on)
New valve springs and Ti Retainers
Higher compression ported cylinder heads
New high volume oil pump
New LS2/LS7 timing chain or better
LS6 Style timing chain dampener
The correct CAM (we can discuss the specs later)
LS2 Throttle Body with the correct conversion harness.
New Higher flow injectors I used 42 lb/hour but 36 lb/hr may work for you
PROFESSIONAL TUNE!
FAST 92 intake manifold! I have a fast 90 and I home ported the manifold and the TB. Works fantastic! Im NOT loosing any power because of the manifold and neither will you!
RECOMMENDED UP-GRADES and IMPROVEMENTS!
You dont have to have the following BUT,, knowing what I know now, I wouldnt do the job without them:
ARP Head Studs! Trust me,,, you will thank me after your done!
ARP Dampener Bolt
NEW OEM Dampener or UP-Grade to a powerbond dampener.
Pin the dampener to the crank
Oil Pressure sensor relocation kit
Ceramic Coat your new Headers!!!!
New GM Red Performance Spark Plug Wires
Replace the coolant passage block off plugs on the rear coolant crossover passages with a 2001+ front pipe to gain that steam vent for the heads!
As I was tuning my car on the street, My OEM 50,000 mile clutch started to have issues. The clutch peddle will stick to the floor under full power runs.
New clutch Master Cylinder (OEM is fine) unless you replace the clutch
Install a remote bleeder on the slave system and flush the complete system
I installed a $1200 SPEC Dual disk clutch, new TICK master cul, new slave, new pilpt brg, new throwout bearing and aremote bleeded. My bell housing was cracked so I had to install a new bell housing.
I wanted to up-grade my drivetrain so,, I did the following to the differential.
- C5, ragtopws6 , Upgrading your C5 rear with C6 Z06 guts, : http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...-z06-guts.html
-
- C5, Its_Go_Time, Output Shaft Install - Left and Right: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...post1573407966
- C5 Differential Seal replacement: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...on-photos.html
-
I also changed my OEM MN12 transmission to a C5 converted TRANSZILLA T/60/60 trans with a hardened output shaft
I disasembled my torque tube and inspected the rubber couplers. Mine were fine. Yours may not be. Better check!
I probably missed something. Its a SICKNES
Bill
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 216
Likes: 15
From: N/A N/A
Thanks for the detailed write-up. I have no doubt that you did it the correct way and then some.
Here is my follow up question....I am not trying to go ***** deep with this build. Are there not reasonable 228 cams that are simply "drop in?" I'm not interested in gobs of power. I understand that all of those supporting mods are great, but how necessary to reliability. With a mild cam, is that all overkill. I know with the big ones it's all a must but with something reasonable, I feel like I see guys that have a simple timing chain and maybe a couple other things as opposed to the whole lot.
Anyone else care to chime in?
Here is my follow up question....I am not trying to go ***** deep with this build. Are there not reasonable 228 cams that are simply "drop in?" I'm not interested in gobs of power. I understand that all of those supporting mods are great, but how necessary to reliability. With a mild cam, is that all overkill. I know with the big ones it's all a must but with something reasonable, I feel like I see guys that have a simple timing chain and maybe a couple other things as opposed to the whole lot.
Anyone else care to chime in?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,203
Likes: 63
From: Staten Island NY
I have a 228R cam -
Most aftermarket cams put out power way past the 6000 rpm stock factory redline / limit. The lob designs can also be way more aggressive than the stock profile. The stock springs may not be optimal.
Another reason for replacing most of the hardware listed is to upgrade the top end, thats a weak link. The 6 bolt / cross-bolted mains on an LS1s can handle 7000 rpm, (best to replace the rod bolts) the stock top end cant. Even if you don't rev it that high chances are a replacement cam will be making more power higher up.
Other items that have to come off anyway should be replaced. A cam change is no place to cut corners.
Most aftermarket cams put out power way past the 6000 rpm stock factory redline / limit. The lob designs can also be way more aggressive than the stock profile. The stock springs may not be optimal.
Another reason for replacing most of the hardware listed is to upgrade the top end, thats a weak link. The 6 bolt / cross-bolted mains on an LS1s can handle 7000 rpm, (best to replace the rod bolts) the stock top end cant. Even if you don't rev it that high chances are a replacement cam will be making more power higher up.
Other items that have to come off anyway should be replaced. A cam change is no place to cut corners.
Last edited by warren s; Oct 31, 2013 at 10:10 AM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Here is an EXCELLENT post that will help you find the correct cam!!! Josh os always helpful with performance info!
Everyone from the 60s motor head to current day LS engine guy wants the biggest cam that is produced. SOUNDS GOOD.. RACE PROFESSIONALS HAVE THEM! 
Really BIG cams work very well in the very upper RPM ranges where you spend very little if any time
Purchase a cam that has excellent low RPM and MID range TORQUE!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...3-ms3-cam.html
Pay particular attention to Josh's MS3 cam response and ALL MOTOR C5LS6 comments! :
QUOTE!
" Something like a 228/232 or 230/234 on good lobes with ~11.5:1 compression will make gobs of midrange power and still pull nicely to 6600+ rpm's. Midrange power is what you want for a fun street car. A car that's a turd below 4K will not be enjoyable to drive on the street, I can guarantee it. TORQUE moves the vehicle. Cylinder pressure builds torque. Huge cams do not build cylinder pressure. "
AlL MOTOR C5LS6
" I ran the MS3 on a 114LSA on my 346 with ported LS6 heads and ported FAST intake and tb. DCR was 7.7:1 and low end was , mid range was a bit soft, but top end was . It's was a cam that loved rpms, but it didn't fit my driving style, which was daily driving at the time. My car felt heavy driving around town and wasn't too much fun because of the lack of vaccum.
I contacted Pat G and let him know that I wanted midrange. He spec'd me a custom cam that had a smaller intake and exhaust duration, a smidge less lift and cut on a 111LSA that produced 2* more overlap than the off the shelf MS3 cam. HUGE Difference as my DCR is now 8.3:1 and it make MUCH MUCH more torque low/mid than what my old MS3 made. Top end feels the same as the MS3, maybe a bit stronger. From a 60 hit, it hits much harder than it did with the MS3 and off the line, it's a night and day difference.
Don't go the MS3 route unless you do gears. "
Everyone from the 60s motor head to current day LS engine guy wants the biggest cam that is produced.
SOUNDS GOOD.. RACE PROFESSIONALS HAVE THEM! Really BIG cams work very well in the very upper RPM ranges where you spend very little if any time
Purchase a cam that has excellent low RPM and MID range TORQUE!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...3-ms3-cam.html
Pay particular attention to Josh's MS3 cam response and ALL MOTOR C5LS6 comments! :
QUOTE!
" Something like a 228/232 or 230/234 on good lobes with ~11.5:1 compression will make gobs of midrange power and still pull nicely to 6600+ rpm's. Midrange power is what you want for a fun street car. A car that's a turd below 4K will not be enjoyable to drive on the street, I can guarantee it. TORQUE moves the vehicle. Cylinder pressure builds torque. Huge cams do not build cylinder pressure. "
AlL MOTOR C5LS6
" I ran the MS3 on a 114LSA on my 346 with ported LS6 heads and ported FAST intake and tb. DCR was 7.7:1 and low end was , mid range was a bit soft, but top end was . It's was a cam that loved rpms, but it didn't fit my driving style, which was daily driving at the time. My car felt heavy driving around town and wasn't too much fun because of the lack of vaccum.
I contacted Pat G and let him know that I wanted midrange. He spec'd me a custom cam that had a smaller intake and exhaust duration, a smidge less lift and cut on a 111LSA that produced 2* more overlap than the off the shelf MS3 cam. HUGE Difference as my DCR is now 8.3:1 and it make MUCH MUCH more torque low/mid than what my old MS3 made. Top end feels the same as the MS3, maybe a bit stronger. From a 60 hit, it hits much harder than it did with the MS3 and off the line, it's a night and day difference.
Don't go the MS3 route unless you do gears. "
Last edited by Bill Curlee; Oct 31, 2013 at 11:56 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
Likes: 291
From: Pasco WA
Try to calculate your dynamic compression ratio. Your cam choice should optimally be close to 8.5:1 DCR for the best street manners. You will end up with more overlap, but the results will make it worth a little stink. My original H/C setup was TF heads with 61cc chambers, and a Crane cam that was only 228-232@112, with .600 lift (both), but the lobe design made for a great DCR, and a 10.9 SCR. Torque everywhere, and 453 on a Mustang. I later added an EWP, %25 UD Powerbond pulley, and a ported FAST90/90 setup, and hit 483/432 on a Dynojet. Truthfully, I should have stopped there.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Thanks for the detailed write-up. I have no doubt that you did it the correct way and then some.
Here is my follow up question....I am not trying to go ***** deep with this build. Are there not reasonable 228 cams that are simply "drop in?" I'm not interested in gobs of power. I understand that all of those supporting mods are great, but how necessary to reliability. With a mild cam, is that all overkill. I know with the big ones it's all a must but with something reasonable, I feel like I see guys that have a simple timing chain and maybe a couple other things as opposed to the whole lot.
Anyone else care to chime in?
Here is my follow up question....I am not trying to go ***** deep with this build. Are there not reasonable 228 cams that are simply "drop in?" I'm not interested in gobs of power. I understand that all of those supporting mods are great, but how necessary to reliability. With a mild cam, is that all overkill. I know with the big ones it's all a must but with something reasonable, I feel like I see guys that have a simple timing chain and maybe a couple other things as opposed to the whole lot.
Anyone else care to chime in?
New LS2 timing chain
Purchase or borrow a push rod length measuring tool
Correct length push-rod for your set up.
NEW OEM LS7 Lifters
New Lifter Buckets
New Correct Springs
New Valve Seals
New Head Bolts
MLS Head gaskets
Check you rocker pedestals. If worn, replace. There like $6 each. X2
New OEM Dampener and New OEM Dampener Bolt
Front cover damper seal
New Comp Cams Trunnions.
Professional Tune
Without removing the heads:
New LS2 timing chain
Purchase or borrow a push rod length measuring tool
Correct length push-rod for your set up.
New Correct Springs
New Valve Seals
Check you rocker pedestals. If worn, replace. There like $6 each. X2
New OEM Dampener and New OEM Dampener Bolt
Front cover damper seal
New Comp Cams Trunnions.
Professional Tune
With ALL cam installs, I always recommend replacing the OIL PUMP with a ported pump or after market high volume pump.
High strength locktite the Cam Retainer bolts!!!!!!
Either way, you will most likely need higher flow injectors. Follow your Tuners recommendations but be ready to install some 36 lb/hr injectors.
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Racer
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
From: Wichita Kansas
Well,,,,,,,, Having completed several cam swaps on my own and helping numerous people do theirs and seeing plenty failures out in the field and numerous people with sewing machine sounding valve trains, here are the absolute basics that will help you have a great install:
New LS2 timing chain
Purchase or borrow a push rod length measuring tool
Correct length push-rod for your set up.
NEW OEM LS7 Lifters
New Lifter Buckets
New Correct Springs
New Valve Seals
New Head Bolts
MLS Head gaskets
Check you rocker pedestals. If worn, replace. There like $6 each. X2
New OEM Dampener and New OEM Dampener Bolt
Front cover damper seal
New Comp Cams Trunnions.
Professional Tune
Without removing the heads:
New LS2 timing chain
Purchase or borrow a push rod length measuring tool
Correct length push-rod for your set up.
New Correct Springs
New Valve Seals
Check you rocker pedestals. If worn, replace. There like $6 each. X2
New OEM Dampener and New OEM Dampener Bolt
Front cover damper seal
New Comp Cams Trunnions.
Professional Tune
With ALL cam installs, I always recommend replacing the OIL PUMP with a ported pump or after market high volume pump.
High strength locktite the Cam Retainer bolts!!!!!!
Either way, you will most likely need higher flow injectors. Follow your Tuners recommendations but be ready to install some 36 lb/hr injectors.
New LS2 timing chain
Purchase or borrow a push rod length measuring tool
Correct length push-rod for your set up.
NEW OEM LS7 Lifters
New Lifter Buckets
New Correct Springs
New Valve Seals
New Head Bolts
MLS Head gaskets
Check you rocker pedestals. If worn, replace. There like $6 each. X2
New OEM Dampener and New OEM Dampener Bolt
Front cover damper seal
New Comp Cams Trunnions.
Professional Tune
Without removing the heads:
New LS2 timing chain
Purchase or borrow a push rod length measuring tool
Correct length push-rod for your set up.
New Correct Springs
New Valve Seals
Check you rocker pedestals. If worn, replace. There like $6 each. X2
New OEM Dampener and New OEM Dampener Bolt
Front cover damper seal
New Comp Cams Trunnions.
Professional Tune
With ALL cam installs, I always recommend replacing the OIL PUMP with a ported pump or after market high volume pump.
High strength locktite the Cam Retainer bolts!!!!!!
Either way, you will most likely need higher flow injectors. Follow your Tuners recommendations but be ready to install some 36 lb/hr injectors.
MOST IMPORTANT