Head and cam combo. 515 HP
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 386
From: Chandler AZ
Head and cam combo. 515 HP
I was going to look at Trick Flow heads, and saw they have kits, with heads, cam, pushrods, rockers, gaskets, etc.
There are 3 kits 485 HP, 500 HP, and the 515 HP, of course I only looked at the 515 HP kit.
Maybe buying this way saves some $$ vs buying piece meal, and time.
For some reason they do not give a new timing set, or lifters, I have read you might as well get new lifter buckets while your in that far.
What do you guys think about a setup like this?
http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail....0&autoview=sku
There are 3 kits 485 HP, 500 HP, and the 515 HP, of course I only looked at the 515 HP kit.
Maybe buying this way saves some $$ vs buying piece meal, and time.
For some reason they do not give a new timing set, or lifters, I have read you might as well get new lifter buckets while your in that far.
What do you guys think about a setup like this?
http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail....0&autoview=sku
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
Likes: 291
From: Pasco WA
Your link doesn't show prices, so I can't attest to the value of that kit, but it does include some good stuff. I found that one way to get the most from new heads, is a custom finish, and a good cam match. I bought my TFs from TEA, which at the time, had Brian Tooley. He hand finished my heads, and they were milled to 61cc for more compression. If you have 93 where you live; I would recommend 59cc, (they come 64cc stock) and of course, a good tune. Assuming you have a manual, and 3.42s, you can benefit from a custom ground cam that maximizes your DCR. I'd also keep the LSA closer to 114 for less overlap, which can really cause your car to stink. It won't affect your overall performance much, if any, and it'll be easier to live with. Get new lifter trays, and lifters, too, IMO. Also, a Melling oil pump, and a LS2 or better timing chain. Now that I'm FI, the TF heads don't make a huge difference at my boost level, but for NA, they're hard to beat.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,785
Likes: 8
From: Sacramento California
is that crank power??? I'm about to ship a set of 243 heads off to Ai for their cnc port and valve work. They are sending me a 224/236 ~ 115lsa cam to pair with it. New lifters, buckets, pushrods, trunion bearing upgrade, Tooley dual springs kit, ported oil pump, LS2 timing chain... I'm pairing it with an LS6 intake with a Shaner P&P throttle body and the new Pfadt Tri-Y headers. Phil at Ai is guestimating me at 430-450rwhp. My tuner thinks I will be in the low 400's but isn't super familiar with the AI heads.
I know it's possible to reach 500rwhp with bolt ons as it's been done before, but I'm usually seeing low to mid 400's.
I know it's possible to reach 500rwhp with bolt ons as it's been done before, but I'm usually seeing low to mid 400's.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 386
From: Chandler AZ
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-k306-515-460
$3,299.97
On the summit site, it says the rockers are Harland Sharp, are those good?
$3,299.97
On the summit site, it says the rockers are Harland Sharp, are those good?
Last edited by 1999corvettels1; Jan 7, 2014 at 03:25 PM.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 386
From: Chandler AZ
Your link doesn't show prices, so I can't attest to the value of that kit, but it does include some good stuff. I found that one way to get the most from new heads, is a custom finish, and a good cam match. I bought my TFs from TEA, which at the time, had Brian Tooley. He hand finished my heads, and they were milled to 61cc for more compression. If you have 93 where you live; I would recommend 59cc, (they come 64cc stock) and of course, a good tune. Assuming you have a manual, and 3.42s, you can benefit from a custom ground cam that maximizes your DCR. I'd also keep the LSA closer to 114 for less overlap, which can really cause your car to stink. It won't affect your overall performance much, if any, and it'll be easier to live with. Get new lifter trays, and lifters, too, IMO. Also, a Melling oil pump, and a LS2 or better timing chain. Now that I'm FI, the TF heads don't make a huge difference at my boost level, but for NA, they're hard to beat.
The car is a 6 speed with 3.42 gears, I would most likely go to 4.10's while having the diff sent out to be updated for the extra power.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,809
Likes: 3
From: Yorktown Virginia
is that crank power??? I'm about to ship a set of 243 heads off to Ai for their cnc port and valve work. They are sending me a 224/236 ~ 115lsa cam to pair with it. New lifters, buckets, pushrods, trunion bearing upgrade, Tooley dual springs kit, ported oil pump, LS2 timing chain... I'm pairing it with an LS6 intake with a Shaner P&P throttle body and the new Pfadt Tri-Y headers. Phil at Ai is guestimating me at 430-450rwhp. My tuner thinks I will be in the low 400's but isn't super familiar with the AI heads.
I know it's possible to reach 500rwhp with bolt ons as it's been done before, but I'm usually seeing low to mid 400's.
I know it's possible to reach 500rwhp with bolt ons as it's been done before, but I'm usually seeing low to mid 400's.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,785
Likes: 8
From: Sacramento California
Judging from the build I just got finished with I would say your tuner is right. I got 455 with a 234/240 .626 and 113lsa and 243 heads to match from them. I also have lg super pro headers, ported fast 92 intake and ls2 tb and fast 36 injectors. Phil told me anywhere from 450-480 at the tires.
Sorry to hijack the thread. Curious what's so special with Trickflo kit mentioned. I can't imagine those heads would be that much better than the AI ported 243's. The cam isn't that much bigger than the one I plan to use.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,809
Likes: 3
From: Yorktown Virginia
Thanks. Guess I will expect a lot less than I hoped then. But the car should still at least be a beast the way it should have come from the factory. Maybe I will get lucky and squeek out 425 or so.
Sorry to hijack the thread. Curious what's so special with Trickflo kit mentioned. I can't imagine those heads would be that much better than the AI ported 243's. The cam isn't that much bigger than the one I plan to use.
Sorry to hijack the thread. Curious what's so special with Trickflo kit mentioned. I can't imagine those heads would be that much better than the AI ported 243's. The cam isn't that much bigger than the one I plan to use.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 386
From: Chandler AZ
Thanks. Guess I will expect a lot less than I hoped then. But the car should still at least be a beast the way it should have come from the factory. Maybe I will get lucky and squeek out 425 or so.
Sorry to hijack the thread. Curious what's so special with Trickflo kit mentioned. I can't imagine those heads would be that much better than the AI ported 243's. The cam isn't that much bigger than the one I plan to use.
Sorry to hijack the thread. Curious what's so special with Trickflo kit mentioned. I can't imagine those heads would be that much better than the AI ported 243's. The cam isn't that much bigger than the one I plan to use.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
Likes: 291
From: Pasco WA
Really depends on tune, but the more compression, the more power. I think 61cc would be about perfect with 91, and a cam that gives you about 8.5:1 DCR, and around 11:1 SCR. If you can get the easier lobes that will still get you close to that DCR number, you don't need huge duration. TF heads have a shallower valve angle, which helps clearance a little, but really benefits from custom work around the valves. At least that was my experience with Brian Tooley. This was a few years ago, and I can't say if there have been any major improvements since.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 167
Likes: 2
From: Artesia New Mexico
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 167
Likes: 2
From: Artesia New Mexico
is that crank power??? I'm about to ship a set of 243 heads off to Ai for their cnc port and valve work. They are sending me a 224/236 ~ 115lsa cam to pair with it. New lifters, buckets, pushrods, trunion bearing upgrade, Tooley dual springs kit, ported oil pump, LS2 timing chain... I'm pairing it with an LS6 intake with a Shaner P&P throttle body and the new Pfadt Tri-Y headers. Phil at Ai is guestimating me at 430-450rwhp. My tuner thinks I will be in the low 400's but isn't super familiar with the AI heads.
I know it's possible to reach 500rwhp with bolt ons as it's been done before, but I'm usually seeing low to mid 400's.
I know it's possible to reach 500rwhp with bolt ons as it's been done before, but I'm usually seeing low to mid 400's.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,785
Likes: 8
From: Sacramento California
If you are talking to me, I sure hope so.
You are probably right. I have a first year LS1 in my C5, it's a 97. I found a set of 12K mile 243 heads for sale that I picked up for just over $500 shipped so that was my starting point.
AI's price is $995 for the cnc porting and valve work. I'm getting their Heads/cam package which is $1800 I believe. That includes new springs, pushrods, head gaskets... I upgraded the springs to the Tooley dual springs with Ti retainers and Vitan seals. I also had Phil go ahead and provide the new lifters, buckets, timing chain, and his ported/blueprinted LS6 oil pump as well. I'm at around $2300 with them.
But remember, that is heads and cam plus the other goodies mentioned. Unless you are going used, no way for aftermarket heads. Maybe the Patriots but I sure didn't read many good reviews of those.
I was also in contact with Mr. Mamo at AFR. His quote to do the same thing to my heads was a bit more $$$. I chose Advanced Induction because as far as the 243 heads go, thread after thread I read on his porting work to these heads, was positive and happy customers. Can't wait to collect all the parts and get it installed and tuned and report back with the results.
But remember, that is heads and cam plus the other goodies mentioned. Unless you are going used, no way for aftermarket heads. Maybe the Patriots but I sure didn't read many good reviews of those.
I was also in contact with Mr. Mamo at AFR. His quote to do the same thing to my heads was a bit more $$$. I chose Advanced Induction because as far as the 243 heads go, thread after thread I read on his porting work to these heads, was positive and happy customers. Can't wait to collect all the parts and get it installed and tuned and report back with the results.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
Likes: 291
From: Pasco WA
AI's price is $995 for the cnc porting and valve work. I'm getting their Heads/cam package which is $1800 I believe. That includes new springs, pushrods, head gaskets... I upgraded the springs to the Tooley dual springs with Ti retainers and Vitan seals. I also had Phil go ahead and provide the new lifters, buckets, timing chain, and his ported/blueprinted LS6 oil pump as well. I'm at around $2300 with them.
But remember, that is heads and cam plus the other goodies mentioned. Unless you are going used, no way for aftermarket heads. Maybe the Patriots but I sure didn't read many good reviews of those.
I was also in contact with Mr. Mamo at AFR. His quote to do the same thing to my heads was a bit more $$$. I chose Advanced Induction because as far as the 243 heads go, thread after thread I read on his porting work to these heads, was positive and happy customers. Can't wait to collect all the parts and get it installed and tuned and report back with the results.
That looks like a pretty good value. GL with your results.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,226
Likes: 33
From: Morton illinois
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
i think TFS are the best heads out there for the 346. some are saying 450rwhp with 243 heads...not going to happen. not even close. When it comes to internet dyno numbers anyone can make a dyno say anything. if you really want to know, get a trap speed at a track. that tells real hp readings. but anyway...lifter trays are not needed. they are hard plastic cups that see zero wear. they are fine. Id change to a better lifter if you get aggressive on the cam. new doesnt hurt regaurdless though. but...not needed. TFS 215, a fast intake, a good cam will net a real 425rwhp.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,392
Likes: 2,911
From: Fort Worth, Texas
i think TFS are the best heads out there for the 346. some are saying 450rwhp with 243 heads...not going to happen. not even close. When it comes to internet dyno numbers anyone can make a dyno say anything. if you really want to know, get a trap speed at a track. that tells real hp readings. but anyway...lifter trays are not needed. they are hard plastic cups that see zero wear. they are fine. Id change to a better lifter if you get aggressive on the cam. new doesnt hurt regaurdless though. but...not needed. TFS 215, a fast intake, a good cam will net a real 425rwhp.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,226
Likes: 33
From: Morton illinois
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
I agree the TFS 215 heads are some of the best out there for a 346, but a ported 243 can come within 10 imo if not a radical cam that needs more PTV. I made a measely 447 with ported 5.3 heads on our stingy dyno (compared to all other local dynojets) through 4.10 gears and went over 127mph in positive DA.
