roller rocker recommendation
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,724
Likes: 23
From: Minnesota
I'm leaning towards scorpion or harland sharp. I had harland sharp rockers on my 10 second chevelle and never had any problems.
Anyone running harland sharp or scorpion? Scorpion has a lifetime warranty. It sounds like pulling teeth when working with yella-terra on a failure issue.
Anyone running harland sharp or scorpion? Scorpion has a lifetime warranty. It sounds like pulling teeth when working with yella-terra on a failure issue.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,120
Likes: 119
St. Jude Donor '10
They can be a bear to deal with(YT) due to the time frame issue.
I like the scorpion and it still seems they have not bounced back from their stigma. I have used both their 1.7 and 1.8 rockers on LS engines and their new LS3 rockers as well. Plus, they look the best. Too bad they are stuck under the covers!
I like the scorpion and it still seems they have not bounced back from their stigma. I have used both their 1.7 and 1.8 rockers on LS engines and their new LS3 rockers as well. Plus, they look the best. Too bad they are stuck under the covers!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,120
Likes: 119
St. Jude Donor '10
Former Vendor
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 278
Likes: 17
From: Auburn/Dacula/Lawrenceville Georgia
Where did you get this information from? I can think of at least three instances where someone popped a rocker CRUISING.
OP, do a search on here and on LS1tech about the YT rocker failures. In the last 2-3 years, they seem to be the only ones (other than stockers puking needle bearings) that anyone posts about failing.
OP, do a search on here and on LS1tech about the YT rocker failures. In the last 2-3 years, they seem to be the only ones (other than stockers puking needle bearings) that anyone posts about failing.
I don't sell YT nor do I push people in that direction but I've installed several sets with no issues because when the customer requests them, I set the valvetrain up accordingly.
I couldn't disagree more. These are the same as the T&D's.
They're expensive as they come and even set up properly, their geometry is horrible. They have a high MOI and they're quick off the seat, causing valvetrain instability. Speaking from a lot of personal experience with these BTW, not hearsay.
If you insist on changing rockers, you're better off with YT's than these^^.
FYI, I spared very little expense on my latest motor. RHS block, billet rods, billet pistons, MAST heads with the best valves money can buy and I deliberately put stock rockers with the trunions upgraded in it.
They're expensive as they come and even set up properly, their geometry is horrible. They have a high MOI and they're quick off the seat, causing valvetrain instability. Speaking from a lot of personal experience with these BTW, not hearsay.
If you insist on changing rockers, you're better off with YT's than these^^.
FYI, I spared very little expense on my latest motor. RHS block, billet rods, billet pistons, MAST heads with the best valves money can buy and I deliberately put stock rockers with the trunions upgraded in it.
I'm leaning towards scorpion or harland sharp. I had harland sharp rockers on my 10 second chevelle and never had any problems.
Anyone running harland sharp or scorpion? Scorpion has a lifetime warranty. It sounds like pulling teeth when working with yella-terra on a failure issue.
Anyone running harland sharp or scorpion? Scorpion has a lifetime warranty. It sounds like pulling teeth when working with yella-terra on a failure issue.
Unfortunately there really is no "cure all" rocker for the LSX engines, aside from the stock rocker with a trunion upgrade. Have some powdered metal guides put in the Darts (if they're not there already), keep your spring pressure below 450lbs and camshaft lift below .630 and let it eat with stock rockers. Call it a day.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Darts, as delivered, were bronze guides. The PSI springs simply won't develop that much spring force. They actually set up a little light on the seat unless you shim them.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 666
Likes: 11
From: Lafayette Louisiana
I'm with CoSpeed2 on this, and have been preaching this for a while. I have no clue why folks won't give another look at Scorpions rockers. They are USA made, and have a no BS warranty... Lifetime at that. Hell, you can call directly to the CEO of the company and he actually picks up the phone.
If Ed wants me to go rollers on my next build (which I doubt) I'll be going with them. Too much recent YT failures, yet not a single recent post about Scorpion.
Either way, set them up to a "T" and I'd suggest THOROUGHLY going through Vette Nuts thread on that topic.
If Ed wants me to go rollers on my next build (which I doubt) I'll be going with them. Too much recent YT failures, yet not a single recent post about Scorpion.
Either way, set them up to a "T" and I'd suggest THOROUGHLY going through Vette Nuts thread on that topic.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,120
Likes: 119
St. Jude Donor '10
Listen, every rocker company has failed batches at one point. The posts you see about Scorpion and YT are probably, 1. either old posts or 2. someone bought some used rockers with the old design and pushed them to the limit and broke them.
The Scorpions have been redesigned. The YTs have "thickened" several areas of their rockers.
My choice? The Harland Sharps are nice but due to their weight, you get simulated valve float at peak RPMs.
I would go with the Scorpions for their warranty, customer service and reliability. There should be a linky to them on our site somewheres in this thread.
The Scorpions have been redesigned. The YTs have "thickened" several areas of their rockers.
My choice? The Harland Sharps are nice but due to their weight, you get simulated valve float at peak RPMs.
I would go with the Scorpions for their warranty, customer service and reliability. There should be a linky to them on our site somewheres in this thread.
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Advanced
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Cinnaminson New Jersey
roller rocker recommendation
The lifetime warranty only covers a replacement part. It doesn't get you home when your rocker breaks a long way from home and you can't get the car flat bedded because they are afraid of damaging your car. Lastly, now you have small aluminum pieces inside your engine that won't get picked up by a magnetic drain plug. Never again based on my past experience.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,120
Likes: 119
St. Jude Donor '10
The lifetime warranty only covers a replacement part. It doesn't get you home when your rocker breaks a long way from home and you can't get the car flat bedded because they are afraid of damaging your car. Lastly, now you have small aluminum pieces inside your engine that won't get picked up by a magnetic drain plug. Never again based on my past experience.
Attachment 47777997
Attachment 47777997
Keep it stock and if stuff breaks, you can get it fixed under warranty because stock parts don't break and GM has never made a mistake in their life and that's why you bought a Corvette, right?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 77
From: Forney Texas
Listen, every rocker company has failed batches at one point. The posts you see about Scorpion and YT are probably, 1. either old posts or 2. someone bought some used rockers with the old design and pushed them to the limit and broke them.
The Scorpions have been redesigned. The YTs have "thickened" several areas of their rockers.
My choice? The Harland Sharps are nice but due to their weight, you get simulated valve float at peak RPMs.
I would go with the Scorpions for their warranty, customer service and reliability. There should be a linky to them on our site somewheres in this thread.
The Scorpions have been redesigned. The YTs have "thickened" several areas of their rockers.
My choice? The Harland Sharps are nice but due to their weight, you get simulated valve float at peak RPMs.
I would go with the Scorpions for their warranty, customer service and reliability. There should be a linky to them on our site somewheres in this thread.
What exactly is "simulated" valve float?
Loss of valve control is like cancer. The driver hears nothing and usually has no idea it's happening. One day a valve breaks and not knowing any better, they blame the valve when it was really caused by a poor valvetrain setup.
What I don't get is how us Corvette owners and forum members never read about valve guides being trashed or valve tips being murdered from friction, yet everyone feels a need change to roller rockers. What I've also never read about is anyone changing rockers on the dyno or a before & after arrangement where someone claims they made out better with a set of them.
The stock rockers with a trunion upgrade really are the best choice. If you have valvetrain issues with stock rockers, someone sold you a cam with ridiculous ramp speeds and roller rockers isn't going to fix it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,120
Likes: 119
St. Jude Donor '10
The lifetime warranty only covers a replacement part. It doesn't get you home when your rocker breaks a long way from home and you can't get the car flat bedded because they are afraid of damaging your car. Lastly, now you have small aluminum pieces inside your engine that won't get picked up by a magnetic drain plug. Never again based on my past experience.
Attachment 47777997
Attachment 47777997
Tech Contributor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 77
From: Forney Texas
It's certainly fair to expect certain things to fail, but why would anyone throw their hard earned money at a product to make their car better, it ends up worse than stock by far and not be justifiably upset?
I think it would be a great idea to post your comment ^^^ up on your Website so that people that purchase them understand how it REALLY is.
Anyone that knows these cars at all knows there are plenty of worthwhile upgrades over stock. What many find out far too late is that THIS ISN'T ONE OF THEM!!
This entire scenario is reminiscent of Tommy Boy's spiel about a warranty.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,120
Likes: 119
St. Jude Donor '10
It doesnt always end up "worse" than stock. Generalizations like that are what causes internet myths.
If your ideals were right, everyone would buy ARH/Kooks headers, because the rest just arent as good.
There have been MANY test over the gains of "full roller rockers". And if you are using bronze valve guides, then it is expressly recommended or if you use over a .600-620 lift cam (varies).
If your ideals were right, everyone would buy ARH/Kooks headers, because the rest just arent as good.
There have been MANY test over the gains of "full roller rockers". And if you are using bronze valve guides, then it is expressly recommended or if you use over a .600-620 lift cam (varies).
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,120
Likes: 119
St. Jude Donor '10
It's certainly fair to expect certain things to fail, but why would anyone throw their hard earned money at a product to make their car better, it ends up worse than stock by far and not be justifiably upset?
I think it would be a great idea to post your comment ^^^ up on your Website so that people that purchase them understand how it REALLY is.
Anyone that knows these cars at all knows there are plenty of worthwhile upgrades over stock. What many find out far too late is that THIS ISN'T ONE OF THEM!!
This entire scenario is reminiscent of Tommy Boy's spiel about a warranty.
I think it would be a great idea to post your comment ^^^ up on your Website so that people that purchase them understand how it REALLY is.
Anyone that knows these cars at all knows there are plenty of worthwhile upgrades over stock. What many find out far too late is that THIS ISN'T ONE OF THEM!!
This entire scenario is reminiscent of Tommy Boy's spiel about a warranty.
Anyone who has common sense can read the intentions of my reply to his "broken" rocker pic and statement.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Loss of valve control is like cancer. The driver hears nothing and usually has no idea it's happening. One day a valve breaks and not knowing any better, they blame the valve when it was really caused by a poor valvetrain setup.
What I don't get is how us Corvette owners and forum members never read about valve guides being trashed or valve tips being murdered from friction, yet everyone feels a need change to roller rockers.
What I don't get is how us Corvette owners and forum members never read about valve guides being trashed or valve tips being murdered from friction, yet everyone feels a need change to roller rockers.
One other note, not too many pay attention to the pushrods but with the valve spring values many are running these days the pushrods are flexing. I did see a difference in my upper RPM with the addition of stiffer double taper pushrods that indicates I had some instability in the valve train and would have likely had issues later because of this. The high force springs and flexing pushrods are likely a major contributor to the rocker arm failures.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 77
From: Forney Texas
Obviously it's a boring Saturday for some people. Unfortunately I'm not 3 years old and am not easily baited into arguements so you can entertain yourself behind a keyboard.
Anyone who has common sense can read the intentions of my reply to his "broken" rocker pic and statement.
Anyone who has common sense can read the intentions of my reply to his "broken" rocker pic and statement.
Even if the rockers never broke, I have yet to see any good reason to buy and run them and in fact, have seen them cause problems a plenty.
I know for a fact that you offer plenty of great products from a number of great companies that would greatly benefit our Vettes, but refuse to agree this is one of them.
Your response is no less than the typical, childish attempt to attack a person after you've exhausted yourself of anything intelligent to say and I'm not surprised in the least.
I applaud your professionalism!
Pro
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 666
Likes: 11
From: Lafayette Louisiana
The lifetime warranty only covers a replacement part. It doesn't get you home when your rocker breaks a long way from home and you can't get the car flat bedded because they are afraid of damaging your car. Lastly, now you have small aluminum pieces inside your engine that won't get picked up by a magnetic drain plug. Never again based on my past experience.
I agree though, for a low lift cam there's no reason to even consider a roller rocker.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 77
From: Forney Texas
I have seen bronze guide heads damaged in under 8K miles with a poorly setup rocker, i.e., wide wipe pattern. It is not friction but rather the side loading on the valve. If you want to run stock rockers, and keep lift at a reasonable level, then you should change the valve guides out to a powder metal rather than bronze. To preserve the bronze guide requires a vary narrow wipe pattern that is simply not achievable with the stock rockers.
Not sure about others, but as stated above I run the YT's to prevent valve guide damage. There was no expectation on my part that I would gain any power.
They are not the best choice with bronze guides.
One other note, not too many pay attention to the pushrods but with the valve spring values many are running these days the pushrods are flexing. I did see a difference in my upper RPM with the addition of stiffer double taper pushrods that indicates I had some instability in the valve train and would have likely had issues later because of this. The high force springs and flexing pushrods are likely a major contributor to the rocker arm failures.
Not sure about others, but as stated above I run the YT's to prevent valve guide damage. There was no expectation on my part that I would gain any power.
They are not the best choice with bronze guides.
One other note, not too many pay attention to the pushrods but with the valve spring values many are running these days the pushrods are flexing. I did see a difference in my upper RPM with the addition of stiffer double taper pushrods that indicates I had some instability in the valve train and would have likely had issues later because of this. The high force springs and flexing pushrods are likely a major contributor to the rocker arm failures.
regarding pushrods: I chose to run double-taper 7/16" and 3/8", .180" heavy wall pushrods for this reason.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,436
Likes: 403
From: Portland OR
Would be interesting to know exactly why aftermarket heads don't use iron guides?
I had a YT failure on a properly set up valve train, AFR springs and heads. 6600 is where it shifted.
We did some failure analysis at work and it was clear that the crack started in the casting where the pushrods cup was pressed in. The pushrods cup is splined much like a wheel stud.
The crack started at one of those points. It was cracked awhile before it finally broke, while cruising along at 25 mph. Close to home!
I replaced with the third gen which are notably beefier. Which leads me to think they are no longer "ultra light". :-)
My latest project 5.3 L33 turbo motor with ported stock heads got BTR spring set and stock rockers with the trunion upgrade.
Ron
I had a YT failure on a properly set up valve train, AFR springs and heads. 6600 is where it shifted.
We did some failure analysis at work and it was clear that the crack started in the casting where the pushrods cup was pressed in. The pushrods cup is splined much like a wheel stud.
The crack started at one of those points. It was cracked awhile before it finally broke, while cruising along at 25 mph. Close to home!
I replaced with the third gen which are notably beefier. Which leads me to think they are no longer "ultra light". :-)
My latest project 5.3 L33 turbo motor with ported stock heads got BTR spring set and stock rockers with the trunion upgrade.
Ron