1998 water leak electrical problems
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Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2013
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From: chesapeake Virginia
1998 water leak electrical problems
bought my 1998 corvette A4 coupe last Monday had heavy rain here on Friday and water came in through the HVAC system (I have gotten all the dirt out of all the drains now)and flooded the passenger side floor after I vacummed the water out I got a whole bunch of DIC messages and of lights (service tpms,service traction control,etc)unhooked battery dried out fuse panel and BCM they were a little damp now I have the pull key out and wait 10 sec. message and service column lock message cant drive more than a couple feet.my car does not lock with the key out so I guess it has had the recall but im not sure its a new car to me .I have read the stickys about the column lock but seeing as the water intrusion seems to have caused it should I go a different route?also i checked fuse 25 and have power on both sides
id appreciate any help
thanks
id appreciate any help
thanks
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: chesapeake Virginia
Chances are that there is some water that got into the metal box that houses the BCM.
Before you start any activity, disconnect the battery to avoid shorting out anything. Don't reconnect until ALL the cleanup and inspection work is completer.
I suggest that you get all the carpet out of the passenger side of the car. (requires removing the seat) Let it dry outside the car. Having it dry inside the car causes very high humidity which then just condenses on colder surfaces.
Carefully mark and remove all the fuses from the fuse box in the passenger foot well. Then carefully inspect for water in the fuse box and clean up as necessary. Inspect and test each fuse as you reinstall it.
Disconnect each of the connectors on the BCM and inspect for corrosion or traces of water. Dry and clean as needed. You may have to remove the BCM board from its metal container to clean up any water that got inside. If there are any white traces on the BCM clean it off carefully with a soft brush and denatured alcohol.
This may sound like overkill but water and the resulting corrosion will cause NO END to the problems you will have with electrical connections and electronics in the car. Many threads on the forum about similar mishaps.
There is no relay for the column lock system on your 98 so any problems with the column lock system is going to be the result of:
1)a weak or bad battery that may have been drained down by electrical components or connections that got wet. Battery voltage measured across the battery posts with the NEG battery cable disconnected needs to be greater than 12.5 volts. Engine will start with 12.2 volts or less but the electronics for the column lock and other electronics will NOT be happy with 12.5 volts or less.
2) the GM K harness failing because of low battery. Here is what happens to the GM K Harness when battery voltage goes low:
3) water that got into the metal box the BCM is located inside, causing the relays to fail to function correctly. Examine the board very carefully and clean as needed.
Before you start any activity, disconnect the battery to avoid shorting out anything. Don't reconnect until ALL the cleanup and inspection work is completer.
I suggest that you get all the carpet out of the passenger side of the car. (requires removing the seat) Let it dry outside the car. Having it dry inside the car causes very high humidity which then just condenses on colder surfaces.
Carefully mark and remove all the fuses from the fuse box in the passenger foot well. Then carefully inspect for water in the fuse box and clean up as necessary. Inspect and test each fuse as you reinstall it.
Disconnect each of the connectors on the BCM and inspect for corrosion or traces of water. Dry and clean as needed. You may have to remove the BCM board from its metal container to clean up any water that got inside. If there are any white traces on the BCM clean it off carefully with a soft brush and denatured alcohol.
This may sound like overkill but water and the resulting corrosion will cause NO END to the problems you will have with electrical connections and electronics in the car. Many threads on the forum about similar mishaps.
There is no relay for the column lock system on your 98 so any problems with the column lock system is going to be the result of:
1)a weak or bad battery that may have been drained down by electrical components or connections that got wet. Battery voltage measured across the battery posts with the NEG battery cable disconnected needs to be greater than 12.5 volts. Engine will start with 12.2 volts or less but the electronics for the column lock and other electronics will NOT be happy with 12.5 volts or less.
2) the GM K harness failing because of low battery. Here is what happens to the GM K Harness when battery voltage goes low:
3) water that got into the metal box the BCM is located inside, causing the relays to fail to function correctly. Examine the board very carefully and clean as needed.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: chesapeake Virginia
Chances are that there is some water that got into the metal box that houses the BCM.
Before you start any activity, disconnect the battery to avoid shorting out anything. Don't reconnect until ALL the cleanup and inspection work is completer.
I suggest that you get all the carpet out of the passenger side of the car. (requires removing the seat) Let it dry outside the car. Having it dry inside the car causes very high humidity which then just condenses on colder surfaces.
Carefully mark and remove all the fuses from the fuse box in the passenger foot well. Then carefully inspect for water in the fuse box and clean up as necessary. Inspect and test each fuse as you reinstall it.
Disconnect each of the connectors on the BCM and inspect for corrosion or traces of water. Dry and clean as needed. You may have to remove the BCM board from its metal container to clean up any water that got inside. If there are any white traces on the BCM clean it off carefully with a soft brush and denatured alcohol.
This may sound like overkill but water and the resulting corrosion will cause NO END to the problems you will have with electrical connections and electronics in the car. Many threads on the forum about similar mishaps.
There is no relay for the column lock system on your 98 so any problems with the column lock system is going to be the result of:
1)a weak or bad battery that may have been drained down by electrical components or connections that got wet. Battery voltage measured across the battery posts with the NEG battery cable disconnected needs to be greater than 12.5 volts. Engine will start with 12.2 volts or less but the electronics for the column lock and other electronics will NOT be happy with 12.5 volts or less.
2) the GM K harness failing because of low battery. Here is what happens to the GM K Harness when battery voltage goes low:
3) water that got into the metal box the BCM is located inside, causing the relays to fail to function correctly. Examine the board very carefully and clean as needed.
Before you start any activity, disconnect the battery to avoid shorting out anything. Don't reconnect until ALL the cleanup and inspection work is completer.
I suggest that you get all the carpet out of the passenger side of the car. (requires removing the seat) Let it dry outside the car. Having it dry inside the car causes very high humidity which then just condenses on colder surfaces.
Carefully mark and remove all the fuses from the fuse box in the passenger foot well. Then carefully inspect for water in the fuse box and clean up as necessary. Inspect and test each fuse as you reinstall it.
Disconnect each of the connectors on the BCM and inspect for corrosion or traces of water. Dry and clean as needed. You may have to remove the BCM board from its metal container to clean up any water that got inside. If there are any white traces on the BCM clean it off carefully with a soft brush and denatured alcohol.
This may sound like overkill but water and the resulting corrosion will cause NO END to the problems you will have with electrical connections and electronics in the car. Many threads on the forum about similar mishaps.
There is no relay for the column lock system on your 98 so any problems with the column lock system is going to be the result of:
1)a weak or bad battery that may have been drained down by electrical components or connections that got wet. Battery voltage measured across the battery posts with the NEG battery cable disconnected needs to be greater than 12.5 volts. Engine will start with 12.2 volts or less but the electronics for the column lock and other electronics will NOT be happy with 12.5 volts or less.
2) the GM K harness failing because of low battery. Here is what happens to the GM K Harness when battery voltage goes low:
3) water that got into the metal box the BCM is located inside, causing the relays to fail to function correctly. Examine the board very carefully and clean as needed.
BCM
B2587H
B2592H
SCM
BO851H
B2605H
U1255H
U1064H
U1016H
RFA
U1255H
U1096H
U1064H
U1016H
and heard a lot of relay clicking in the pass. footwell
I pulled the battery yesterday night and am in the process of cleaning the BCM and fuse/relay center now.also where is the CLB located? and how would I tell if its bad just do a visual and see if its burnt like the one you showed?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 32
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From: chesapeake Virginia
The two BCM codes are the Column Lock Failure.
The important other codes are the Uxxxx and specifically the U1255 which is a serial data buss generic loss of communications.
This might be because water got into the two star connectors in the passenger footwell. Here is a link to go to and then scroll to post #9. Shows what the Star connectors are. Pull the gray part out and insure that the contacts are not wet or corroded. Clean/dry as needed and replace the gray part.
The clicking is likely caused by a low battery or possibly by moisture inside the BCM can.
I suspect your car does NOT have a CLB. Rather it has a GM K Harness that has failed. It is located under the drivers side knee bolster. Here is a link to how to install a CLB. The first part is good because it describes and has pictures of how to drop the knee bolster:
http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=24
The following work needs to be done with the battery connected......
Once You have the knee bolster dropped down, you are looking for the K Harness. Here is a picture of one:
Coming down the left side of the steering column is 4 wires that have a male connector on the end. The male connector will be plugged into a female connector. The back side of the female connector will have only 2 wires, 1 white and 1 purple. Disconnect the male connector from the female connector and then follow the white and purple wire to the relay portion of the K Harness. Then follow the 4 wires from the relay to another male connector plugged into a female connector that should be attached to the bottom of the dash. Unplug the male connector. The take the first male connector (from the lock motor) and plug it into the female connector attached to the bottom of the dash. This eliminates the K Harness from the system (NOT NEEDED).
Before you reassemble the knee bolster, put the key into the ignition and turn it to the start position but do not start the car. If you get the Pull Key.... message, do as it says. Remove the key for at least 10 seconds. Reinsert the key and repeat. You should no longer get any column lock messages.
I STRONGLY urge you to get and install either a CLB or LMC5. While the column lock system is now working, the next low battery will cause similar issues and could damage the BCM. Or the lock motor itself could fail and cause the column lock symptoms again........
The important other codes are the Uxxxx and specifically the U1255 which is a serial data buss generic loss of communications.
This might be because water got into the two star connectors in the passenger footwell. Here is a link to go to and then scroll to post #9. Shows what the Star connectors are. Pull the gray part out and insure that the contacts are not wet or corroded. Clean/dry as needed and replace the gray part.
The clicking is likely caused by a low battery or possibly by moisture inside the BCM can.
I suspect your car does NOT have a CLB. Rather it has a GM K Harness that has failed. It is located under the drivers side knee bolster. Here is a link to how to install a CLB. The first part is good because it describes and has pictures of how to drop the knee bolster:
http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=24
The following work needs to be done with the battery connected......
Once You have the knee bolster dropped down, you are looking for the K Harness. Here is a picture of one:
Coming down the left side of the steering column is 4 wires that have a male connector on the end. The male connector will be plugged into a female connector. The back side of the female connector will have only 2 wires, 1 white and 1 purple. Disconnect the male connector from the female connector and then follow the white and purple wire to the relay portion of the K Harness. Then follow the 4 wires from the relay to another male connector plugged into a female connector that should be attached to the bottom of the dash. Unplug the male connector. The take the first male connector (from the lock motor) and plug it into the female connector attached to the bottom of the dash. This eliminates the K Harness from the system (NOT NEEDED).
Before you reassemble the knee bolster, put the key into the ignition and turn it to the start position but do not start the car. If you get the Pull Key.... message, do as it says. Remove the key for at least 10 seconds. Reinsert the key and repeat. You should no longer get any column lock messages.
I STRONGLY urge you to get and install either a CLB or LMC5. While the column lock system is now working, the next low battery will cause similar issues and could damage the BCM. Or the lock motor itself could fail and cause the column lock symptoms again........
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: chesapeake Virginia
Chances are that there is some water that got into the metal box that houses the BCM.
Before you start any activity, disconnect the battery to avoid shorting out anything. Don't reconnect until ALL the cleanup and inspection work is completer.
I suggest that you get all the carpet out of the passenger side of the car. (requires removing the seat) Let it dry outside the car. Having it dry inside the car causes very high humidity which then just condenses on colder surfaces.
Carefully mark and remove all the fuses from the fuse box in the passenger foot well. Then carefully inspect for water in the fuse box and clean up as necessary. Inspect and test each fuse as you reinstall it.
Disconnect each of the connectors on the BCM and inspect for corrosion or traces of water. Dry and clean as needed. You may have to remove the BCM board from its metal container to clean up any water that got inside. If there are any white traces on the BCM clean it off carefully with a soft brush and denatured alcohol.
This may sound like overkill but water and the resulting corrosion will cause NO END to the problems you will have with electrical connections and electronics in the car. Many threads on the forum about similar mishaps.
There is no relay for the column lock system on your 98 so any problems with the column lock system is going to be the result of:
1)a weak or bad battery that may have been drained down by electrical components or connections that got wet. Battery voltage measured across the battery posts with the NEG battery cable disconnected needs to be greater than 12.5 volts. Engine will start with 12.2 volts or less but the electronics for the column lock and other electronics will NOT be happy with 12.5 volts or less.
2) the GM K harness failing because of low battery. Here is what happens to the GM K Harness when battery voltage goes low:
3) water that got into the metal box the BCM is located inside, causing the relays to fail to function correctly. Examine the board very carefully and clean as needed.
Before you start any activity, disconnect the battery to avoid shorting out anything. Don't reconnect until ALL the cleanup and inspection work is completer.
I suggest that you get all the carpet out of the passenger side of the car. (requires removing the seat) Let it dry outside the car. Having it dry inside the car causes very high humidity which then just condenses on colder surfaces.
Carefully mark and remove all the fuses from the fuse box in the passenger foot well. Then carefully inspect for water in the fuse box and clean up as necessary. Inspect and test each fuse as you reinstall it.
Disconnect each of the connectors on the BCM and inspect for corrosion or traces of water. Dry and clean as needed. You may have to remove the BCM board from its metal container to clean up any water that got inside. If there are any white traces on the BCM clean it off carefully with a soft brush and denatured alcohol.
This may sound like overkill but water and the resulting corrosion will cause NO END to the problems you will have with electrical connections and electronics in the car. Many threads on the forum about similar mishaps.
There is no relay for the column lock system on your 98 so any problems with the column lock system is going to be the result of:
1)a weak or bad battery that may have been drained down by electrical components or connections that got wet. Battery voltage measured across the battery posts with the NEG battery cable disconnected needs to be greater than 12.5 volts. Engine will start with 12.2 volts or less but the electronics for the column lock and other electronics will NOT be happy with 12.5 volts or less.
2) the GM K harness failing because of low battery. Here is what happens to the GM K Harness when battery voltage goes low:
3) water that got into the metal box the BCM is located inside, causing the relays to fail to function correctly. Examine the board very carefully and clean as needed.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: chesapeake Virginia
What was the voltage measurement across the battery posts with the Neg battery cable disconnected????
As I said in post #2 it MUST be greater than 12.5 volts or the column lock electronics is going to fail............. Don't use the dash gauges to measure it. They show the state of health of the charging system and NOT the state of health of the battery. A Digital Multi Meter is the best measurement tool.
A good battery at full charge with No Load will measure 12.7 to 12.9 volts or more.
It may also be that the lock motor is hung up. I have seen that happen on older cars because the grease inside it gets a little thick. Since your car is an automatic and doesn't physically lock the column there is no way to physically shock the system into moving the lock pin. About the ONLY solution left is a CLB or LMC5 to keep the BCM happy with response signals to the BCM lock/unlock commands and that assumes the BCM is functioning correctly. A final solution to getting rid of the 2mph fuel shutoff is to have a tuner with either HP Tuner or EFI Live tuning software set the fuel shutoff speed to a high number like 200 or 255. But that will NOT get rid of the DIC messages if the problem is in the BCM. It does allow the car to be driven up to the new fuel shutoff speed.
As an FYI on helping understand what is happening, the column lock system works like this:
When the key in inserted in the ignition cylinder the BCM senses the insert and checks the "status" that it keeps on the column lock. If the status indicated locked then the BCM sends an unlock command to the lock motor. The lock motor is supposed to retract the pin and respond to the BCM with a "completed" signal. Upon receipt of the completed signal the BCM changes its status to UNlocked and allows the car to be started and driven. When you shut the engine off and remove the key from the ignition the BCM senses key removal and sends a signal to the lock motor to LOCK the wheel. The lock motor is supposed to extend the pin and respond "completed" to the BCM. Upon receipt of the completed signal the BCM changes the status to LOCKED. The BCM has NO PHYSICAL way to know the column is locked or unlocked and relies on resposes to its commands to keep a "logical" status. Hence it is possible for the BCM to get out of sync if/when it fails to get a given response or when the battery is disconnected/connected.
If when you insert the key into the ignition the status is UNlocked, the BCM knows there must be a problem since it sensed the key insertion and the status SHOULD have been locked and raises the "Pull Key.... message in the DIC. If the driver does that and the BCM properly senses the removal of the key, the BCM will send a LOCK command. If the lock motor receives the command and does what it is supposed to do, extend the pin and respond completed, AND the BCM receives the "completed" then the BCM gets back in sync. If for some reason the completed for the lock command does not get received then the next time the key is inserted you get BOTH the Pull Key... and Service Column Lock messages in the DIC and the BCM then signals the PCM to enable fuel shutoff. If the driver starts and tries to drive the car then the PCM shuts off fuel when the fuel shutoff speed is reached.
Since this entire operation is relying on the sending and receiving of electrical signals, there are MANY places that something could go wrong. If the problems are OUTSIDE of the BCM then a product like the LMC5 which connects directly to BCM wiring usually will resolve the problem. If the problem is a stuck or failed relay on the BCM board then you are only going to get around the fuel shutoff by programming it to some very large number. However, the messages WILL still appear in the DIC. Car can be driven but you must use the reset button to remove the message from the DIC display each time you start the car.
As I said in post #2 it MUST be greater than 12.5 volts or the column lock electronics is going to fail............. Don't use the dash gauges to measure it. They show the state of health of the charging system and NOT the state of health of the battery. A Digital Multi Meter is the best measurement tool.
A good battery at full charge with No Load will measure 12.7 to 12.9 volts or more.
It may also be that the lock motor is hung up. I have seen that happen on older cars because the grease inside it gets a little thick. Since your car is an automatic and doesn't physically lock the column there is no way to physically shock the system into moving the lock pin. About the ONLY solution left is a CLB or LMC5 to keep the BCM happy with response signals to the BCM lock/unlock commands and that assumes the BCM is functioning correctly. A final solution to getting rid of the 2mph fuel shutoff is to have a tuner with either HP Tuner or EFI Live tuning software set the fuel shutoff speed to a high number like 200 or 255. But that will NOT get rid of the DIC messages if the problem is in the BCM. It does allow the car to be driven up to the new fuel shutoff speed.
As an FYI on helping understand what is happening, the column lock system works like this:
When the key in inserted in the ignition cylinder the BCM senses the insert and checks the "status" that it keeps on the column lock. If the status indicated locked then the BCM sends an unlock command to the lock motor. The lock motor is supposed to retract the pin and respond to the BCM with a "completed" signal. Upon receipt of the completed signal the BCM changes its status to UNlocked and allows the car to be started and driven. When you shut the engine off and remove the key from the ignition the BCM senses key removal and sends a signal to the lock motor to LOCK the wheel. The lock motor is supposed to extend the pin and respond "completed" to the BCM. Upon receipt of the completed signal the BCM changes the status to LOCKED. The BCM has NO PHYSICAL way to know the column is locked or unlocked and relies on resposes to its commands to keep a "logical" status. Hence it is possible for the BCM to get out of sync if/when it fails to get a given response or when the battery is disconnected/connected.
If when you insert the key into the ignition the status is UNlocked, the BCM knows there must be a problem since it sensed the key insertion and the status SHOULD have been locked and raises the "Pull Key.... message in the DIC. If the driver does that and the BCM properly senses the removal of the key, the BCM will send a LOCK command. If the lock motor receives the command and does what it is supposed to do, extend the pin and respond completed, AND the BCM receives the "completed" then the BCM gets back in sync. If for some reason the completed for the lock command does not get received then the next time the key is inserted you get BOTH the Pull Key... and Service Column Lock messages in the DIC and the BCM then signals the PCM to enable fuel shutoff. If the driver starts and tries to drive the car then the PCM shuts off fuel when the fuel shutoff speed is reached.
Since this entire operation is relying on the sending and receiving of electrical signals, there are MANY places that something could go wrong. If the problems are OUTSIDE of the BCM then a product like the LMC5 which connects directly to BCM wiring usually will resolve the problem. If the problem is a stuck or failed relay on the BCM board then you are only going to get around the fuel shutoff by programming it to some very large number. However, the messages WILL still appear in the DIC. Car can be driven but you must use the reset button to remove the message from the DIC display each time you start the car.
thanks for the replys
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: chesapeake Virginia
I've never seen a circuit diagram for the BCM so even determining which relay (many on the board) to test is a crap shoot. Nothing even close in the FSM for my 04. Since the BCM is not a serviceable unit (replace only) I doubt you will find one. But I have been wrong before.
Use caution testing the BCM. Lots of components that can fail from static electricity.......
When you get the FSM you will find a wiring diagram for the column lock system. You can locate the pins on the harness under the drivers knee bolster and measure voltages or even isolate which pins on the BCM are involved and measure voltages there. Perhaps with the BCM out of the case and knowing which pins are involved you can back into the relay on the board??? Can't use the diagrams for later year cars as GM changed at least the external operation of the column lock by adding an external relay that is triggered by the BCM rather than the way the 97 and 98 work with the relay on the BCM board directly operating the lock motor.
Since you need to wait for the FSM, I would be inclined to reclean very carefully the areas of the BCM board that had the white calcium build up, especially around any relays on the board.
Beyond that I don't have anything else to offer on the column lock.
Good luck.
Use caution testing the BCM. Lots of components that can fail from static electricity.......
When you get the FSM you will find a wiring diagram for the column lock system. You can locate the pins on the harness under the drivers knee bolster and measure voltages or even isolate which pins on the BCM are involved and measure voltages there. Perhaps with the BCM out of the case and knowing which pins are involved you can back into the relay on the board??? Can't use the diagrams for later year cars as GM changed at least the external operation of the column lock by adding an external relay that is triggered by the BCM rather than the way the 97 and 98 work with the relay on the BCM board directly operating the lock motor.
Since you need to wait for the FSM, I would be inclined to reclean very carefully the areas of the BCM board that had the white calcium build up, especially around any relays on the board.
Beyond that I don't have anything else to offer on the column lock.
Good luck.
thanks
