starting help!
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,011
Likes: 9
From: Dublin GA
starting help!
I need help!!
I just installed my new motor and have about 500miles. One of the things I did was have the starter rebuilt with new solenoid.From the 1st day, it would occasionally "click" when trying to start. I tightened the hot wire and it got better for about a week, then would not start at all. I could see the solenoid move forward, but starter would not engage. I could turn the flywheel with a screwdriver
I pulled the starter and bench tested it and it was perfect every time. The positive wires were cruded up, so I cleaned them and reinstalled. I tested about 4 times before starting the buttoning up, and it worked perfect.
I installed headers tonight and decided to test again and it turned once and now it makes NO SOUND. It dims the underhood lights, but no sound
I tested voltage, and have
Battery - 12.25 (was 12.54 before I started)
starter hot wire - 12.2
starter S wire (with ignition turned on)11.9
starter nut (from solenoid to starter) 11.8
I HAVE to get this thing going
Any suggestions what to check next?
I just installed my new motor and have about 500miles. One of the things I did was have the starter rebuilt with new solenoid.From the 1st day, it would occasionally "click" when trying to start. I tightened the hot wire and it got better for about a week, then would not start at all. I could see the solenoid move forward, but starter would not engage. I could turn the flywheel with a screwdriver
I pulled the starter and bench tested it and it was perfect every time. The positive wires were cruded up, so I cleaned them and reinstalled. I tested about 4 times before starting the buttoning up, and it worked perfect.
I installed headers tonight and decided to test again and it turned once and now it makes NO SOUND. It dims the underhood lights, but no sound
I tested voltage, and have
Battery - 12.25 (was 12.54 before I started)
starter hot wire - 12.2
starter S wire (with ignition turned on)11.9
starter nut (from solenoid to starter) 11.8
I HAVE to get this thing going
Any suggestions what to check next?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Right now, In in Scotland UK or other wise, I would have you call me.
Here are some brain storms.
Have you checked the battery cable terminals for being properly TORQUED onto the battery terminals. Needs to be 11 ft/lbs.
Main Pos battery wire on the statrer solenoid MUST be clean and tight.
S- wire must be on the S terminal by its self. No other wires should be on that terminal.
IF,,, you use a screw driver and jump the Starter battery terminal to the starter power wire, will the starter turn the engine over. WARNING!!! Make sure that the car is out of gear wheels chocked!!!
When you turn/ have someone turn the ignition to START, do you get full voltage on the S terminal and if you bang the starter with a mallet, does it try to start.
You very well could have a problem with the brushes inside the starter and if you BANG the starter and it tries to start or does crank, take it back and have it fixed.
Bill
Here are some brain storms.
Have you checked the battery cable terminals for being properly TORQUED onto the battery terminals. Needs to be 11 ft/lbs.
Main Pos battery wire on the statrer solenoid MUST be clean and tight.
S- wire must be on the S terminal by its self. No other wires should be on that terminal.
IF,,, you use a screw driver and jump the Starter battery terminal to the starter power wire, will the starter turn the engine over. WARNING!!! Make sure that the car is out of gear wheels chocked!!!
When you turn/ have someone turn the ignition to START, do you get full voltage on the S terminal and if you bang the starter with a mallet, does it try to start.
You very well could have a problem with the brushes inside the starter and if you BANG the starter and it tries to start or does crank, take it back and have it fixed.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Curlee; May 21, 2014 at 12:02 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,011
Likes: 9
From: Dublin GA
Thanks for your response Bill
Please forgive me for be so longwinded, but Im trying to cover all bases.
I pulled the starter completely off, because the "test" indicated a bad starter, but when I bench tested it, it hit hard every time. I guess I should have taken it on to them, but it seemed perfect, so I reinstalled it with everything cleaned up, and here I am.
The key issues that does not make sense, as I mentioned, is # 2
1. The S wire has full voltage, indicating it is not any neutral switch issues, etc
2. MOST CURIOUS - When the key is turned, the starter lug (from solenoid to starter motor, HAS FULL VOLTAGE, which I would think means everything in line is working but yet doesn't make a sound......(At least click!!!)
Is it possible from this to say (based on the observed volt readings)
This is not an ignition or "security" issue
It is either a battery not delivering enough AMPS, or a bad starter?
Thanks again for your reply
Please forgive me for be so longwinded, but Im trying to cover all bases.
Right now, In in Scotland UK or other wise, I would have you call me.
Here are some brain storms.
Have you checked the battery cable terminals for being properly TORQUED onto the battery terminals. Needs to be 11 ft/lbs. (yes; I actually took them back off and reinstalled to make sure they were clean and tight)
Main Pos battery wire on the statrer solenoid MUST be clean and tight. I took them off the starter(they were bad) and cleaned them with a die grinder and scotch bright
S- wire must be on the S terminal by its self. No other wires should be on that terminal. It is by itself and cleaned as well. As I mentioned, when key is turned to start, it receives 11.9 volts. I tried running a jumper wire to it from positive, and it did nothing.
IF,,, you use a screw driver and jump the Starter battery terminal to the starter power wire, will the starter turn the engine over. WARNING!!! Make sure that the car is out of gear wheels chocked!!! I haven't been able to get a screwdriver in there with the headers in the way. I can try with a shorter one if I can get my hand in there.
When you turn/ have someone turn the ignition to START, do you get full voltage on the S terminal and if you bang the starter with a mallet, does it try to start. (I get 11.9 to the s wire) I haven't done it this time, but when I had the issue before when it was just "clicking", I tapped and tapped and nothing.
You very well could have a problem with the brushes inside the starter and if you BANG the starter and it tries to start or does crank, take it back and have it fixed. (I know it is irrelevant, but I had the starter rebuilt by a shop while I had the engine out)
Bill
Here are some brain storms.
Have you checked the battery cable terminals for being properly TORQUED onto the battery terminals. Needs to be 11 ft/lbs. (yes; I actually took them back off and reinstalled to make sure they were clean and tight)
Main Pos battery wire on the statrer solenoid MUST be clean and tight. I took them off the starter(they were bad) and cleaned them with a die grinder and scotch bright
S- wire must be on the S terminal by its self. No other wires should be on that terminal. It is by itself and cleaned as well. As I mentioned, when key is turned to start, it receives 11.9 volts. I tried running a jumper wire to it from positive, and it did nothing.
IF,,, you use a screw driver and jump the Starter battery terminal to the starter power wire, will the starter turn the engine over. WARNING!!! Make sure that the car is out of gear wheels chocked!!! I haven't been able to get a screwdriver in there with the headers in the way. I can try with a shorter one if I can get my hand in there.
When you turn/ have someone turn the ignition to START, do you get full voltage on the S terminal and if you bang the starter with a mallet, does it try to start. (I get 11.9 to the s wire) I haven't done it this time, but when I had the issue before when it was just "clicking", I tapped and tapped and nothing.
You very well could have a problem with the brushes inside the starter and if you BANG the starter and it tries to start or does crank, take it back and have it fixed. (I know it is irrelevant, but I had the starter rebuilt by a shop while I had the engine out)
Bill
The key issues that does not make sense, as I mentioned, is # 2
1. The S wire has full voltage, indicating it is not any neutral switch issues, etc
2. MOST CURIOUS - When the key is turned, the starter lug (from solenoid to starter motor, HAS FULL VOLTAGE, which I would think means everything in line is working but yet doesn't make a sound......(At least click!!!)
Is it possible from this to say (based on the observed volt readings)
This is not an ignition or "security" issue
It is either a battery not delivering enough AMPS, or a bad starter?
Thanks again for your reply
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Some great info.
If you have full battery voltage on the S terminal on the crank position, and when you also touched an external battery source on the S terminal and nothing happens,,,,, YOU HAVE A BAD SOLENOID!! Clear and simple.
The BAD part about that is,,, you have to remove the starter AGAIN,, to replace the solenoid..
Bill
If you have full battery voltage on the S terminal on the crank position, and when you also touched an external battery source on the S terminal and nothing happens,,,,, YOU HAVE A BAD SOLENOID!! Clear and simple.
The BAD part about that is,,, you have to remove the starter AGAIN,, to replace the solenoid..
Bill
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,011
Likes: 9
From: Dublin GA
Is there any way a battery could have good voltage, but something like a bad cell or something keep it from having the amps??
I am so confused that the starter side of the solenoid has almost 12 volts... How is it getting it???
It makes me nauseated to have to remove it again, but at least the only thing I installed was starter, wires, and headers.
If they had just made the starter wires a little longer so they would allow the starter to drop lower
Im not sure what time it is there, but thanks for the help Bill. Really need this baby running
I am so confused that the starter side of the solenoid has almost 12 volts... How is it getting it???
It makes me nauseated to have to remove it again, but at least the only thing I installed was starter, wires, and headers.
If they had just made the starter wires a little longer so they would allow the starter to drop lower
Im not sure what time it is there, but thanks for the help Bill. Really need this baby running
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
ABSOLUTELY a battery can do that.. Two things make a battery work. Voltage (which is potential) & CURRENT (which is the force).
A battery can have a bad cell and you will see full voltage BUT,,, It will not be able to pass any current.
Take the battery out and have it load tested for Cold Cranking Amps and Reserve Capacity. If its good,,, I would suspect a bad solenoid
OR
The positive and negative battery cable has a CRIMPED connection under the red and black plastic terminal cover. Inspect that and see if it proper
Also check the NEG ground on the engine block!!!! If that loose or corroded,, same symptoms
BC
A battery can have a bad cell and you will see full voltage BUT,,, It will not be able to pass any current.
Take the battery out and have it load tested for Cold Cranking Amps and Reserve Capacity. If its good,,, I would suspect a bad solenoid
OR
The positive and negative battery cable has a CRIMPED connection under the red and black plastic terminal cover. Inspect that and see if it proper
Also check the NEG ground on the engine block!!!! If that loose or corroded,, same symptoms
BC
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,139
Likes: 802
From: Espanola New Mexico
Starter
I am sure your starter is bad, the reason you measured voltage on the lug from the solenoid to starter is because there is an open connection in the starter, hence you will measure voltage but there is no current flow.
Regards Marty
Regards Marty
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,011
Likes: 9
From: Dublin GA
Well; Good news and AWFUL news
MM you were correct; I installed the new starter and it turns over hard and fast like it should
Now the AWFUL news..............
The car will not fire up. I am getting all of the codes and when I check the diagnostic, it has "no Comm" on everything
I don't think it is just a coincident that the "grounds" are suddenly bad, and feel like it has to have something to do with the work I did in that area. Maybe some blown fuses or something
Any ideas?
MM you were correct; I installed the new starter and it turns over hard and fast like it should
Now the AWFUL news..............
The car will not fire up. I am getting all of the codes and when I check the diagnostic, it has "no Comm" on everything
I don't think it is just a coincident that the "grounds" are suddenly bad, and feel like it has to have something to do with the work I did in that area. Maybe some blown fuses or something
Any ideas?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,011
Likes: 9
From: Dublin GA
I have a new HERO!!!!
Between my post in two sections here, and one on another forum, I had over 350 views on my "no Comm" problem and no one had a solution to even TRY. I was on the phone with Bill Curlee for a total of 15 mins and he got me back up and running
All I can say is THANK YOU, THANK YOU !!!
I had spoken too 3 local corvette guys, and they all pretty much agreed that the PCM was fried. I had located a guy that repairs them, and was going to pull it Monday and send it off Tuesday. ($$$$)
Here was the problem;
Check the post above for the details, but bottom line, car would turn over but not fire up, and the gauges were going crazy and EVERY function showed "no Comm" when I pulled up code.
Bill had me pull the data bus (??) that contains the 4 wires and remove the grounding strip. I then checked for codes and it actauly gave, some, so I tried the car and it fired up!!!
Per Bill, I then pulled the drivers seat motor plug and hooked the buss back up, and all is still good. Since I haven't moved the seat in 5 years, I left it unplugged.
Once again, THANKS to Bill for taking the time to help me solve a problem that no one else could help me with
Going to continue the motor break in tomorrow!!
Between my post in two sections here, and one on another forum, I had over 350 views on my "no Comm" problem and no one had a solution to even TRY. I was on the phone with Bill Curlee for a total of 15 mins and he got me back up and running
All I can say is THANK YOU, THANK YOU !!!
I had spoken too 3 local corvette guys, and they all pretty much agreed that the PCM was fried. I had located a guy that repairs them, and was going to pull it Monday and send it off Tuesday. ($$$$)
Here was the problem;
Check the post above for the details, but bottom line, car would turn over but not fire up, and the gauges were going crazy and EVERY function showed "no Comm" when I pulled up code.
Bill had me pull the data bus (??) that contains the 4 wires and remove the grounding strip. I then checked for codes and it actauly gave, some, so I tried the car and it fired up!!!
Per Bill, I then pulled the drivers seat motor plug and hooked the buss back up, and all is still good. Since I haven't moved the seat in 5 years, I left it unplugged.
Once again, THANKS to Bill for taking the time to help me solve a problem that no one else could help me with
Going to continue the motor break in tomorrow!!
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 4
From: cinnaminson n.j.
St. Jude Donor '14
I have a new HERO!!!!
Between my post in two sections here, and one on another forum, I had over 350 views on my "no Comm" problem and no one had a solution to even TRY. I was on the phone with Bill Curlee for a total of 15 mins and he got me back up and running
All I can say is THANK YOU, THANK YOU !!!
I had spoken too 3 local corvette guys, and they all pretty much agreed that the PCM was fried. I had located a guy that repairs them, and was going to pull it Monday and send it off Tuesday. ($$$$)
Here was the problem;
Check the post above for the details, but bottom line, car would turn over but not fire up, and the gauges were going crazy and EVERY function showed "no Comm" when I pulled up code.
Bill had me pull the data bus (??) that contains the 4 wires and remove the grounding strip. I then checked for codes and it actauly gave, some, so I tried the car and it fired up!!!
Per Bill, I then pulled the drivers seat motor plug and hooked the buss back up, and all is still good. Since I haven't moved the seat in 5 years, I left it unplugged.
Once again, THANKS to Bill for taking the time to help me solve a problem that no one else could help me with
Going to continue the motor break in tomorrow!!
Between my post in two sections here, and one on another forum, I had over 350 views on my "no Comm" problem and no one had a solution to even TRY. I was on the phone with Bill Curlee for a total of 15 mins and he got me back up and running
All I can say is THANK YOU, THANK YOU !!!
I had spoken too 3 local corvette guys, and they all pretty much agreed that the PCM was fried. I had located a guy that repairs them, and was going to pull it Monday and send it off Tuesday. ($$$$)
Here was the problem;
Check the post above for the details, but bottom line, car would turn over but not fire up, and the gauges were going crazy and EVERY function showed "no Comm" when I pulled up code.
Bill had me pull the data bus (??) that contains the 4 wires and remove the grounding strip. I then checked for codes and it actauly gave, some, so I tried the car and it fired up!!!
Per Bill, I then pulled the drivers seat motor plug and hooked the buss back up, and all is still good. Since I haven't moved the seat in 5 years, I left it unplugged.
Once again, THANKS to Bill for taking the time to help me solve a problem that no one else could help me with
Going to continue the motor break in tomorrow!!
to Bill Curlee