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I'm posting this as a reference for others who may have the same issue, as I spent months Google searching (and procrastinating) and found very few threads that exactly matched the symptoms I was having.
I had a MS3 camshaft installed, along with all the supporting mods, push rods, seals, springs, ect.
After the install the car was consuming oil, and smoking. The smoke got worse the warmer the engine got, especially at idle. The longer the car sat idling the worse the smoke got, even after leaving idle it would be very strong until the car cooled.
Different days there were different levels of smoke. Some days it was like I was spy-hunter leaving a smoke trail trying to lose the cops, other days it was lighter. Smoke was always present once the engine was fully warm, it was just light or heavy.
At startup the car didn't really spit out the "puff" of smoke that's typically associated with a valve seal. In fact there was almost never smoke on cold start up.
I installed a catch can, which did catch some oil (about a table spoon or less in 5k miles), but made no difference on the smoke.
I put the car on the Dyno and pulled 440 at the rear wheels, leading me to believe it's not a ring. If I had low compression/bad rings on a cylinder I wouldn't have put down that much HP. Though a leak down test can/would have confirmed that for me.
I finally broke down and replaced the valve seals even though it didn't fit typical valve seal symptoms, I really had no other things to check that weren't more involved.
At least 10 of the 16 valve seals were visibly damaged, which looked like the damage came from install (they were beat on too hard ripping the rubber and exposing the metal ring at the edges). Small cracks in the rubber of the seal. Some were barely visible, some were very visible. The other 6 I really didn't inspect that closely, at that point I assumed they were all bad, and they all got replaced.
Replacing all the seals the smoke was gone instantly.
Typical Valve Seal Symptoms that I did *NOT* have:
1) Blue/White smoke during cold startup
2) Fouled/Oil Deposits on spark plugs
3) Blue/white smoke during decel
Symptoms that I *DID* have:
1) White smoke during operating temp idle (Smoke increased the longer it idled) (don't even dare going through a drive through)
2) No smoke during cold start up, smoke appearing after warming up and idling
3) No smoke during hwy cruising, smoke worse during stop/go traffic.
4) Heavy Smoke during very hard sprint driving.
Hopefully some day this thread will help someone who has similar issues.
hmm I noticed mine has been doing that afew thousand after my cam install. Some of them I installed with the valve seal tool and some other I did it with socket..Seemed like the socket drove them further down and I got a "thunk sound" meaning the were bottoned out vs the actual GM tool. I have my coil packs off and I need to change the valve cover seals since they are leaking. I will have to take a look and see if I can see any issues. Thanks for the info I would of never thought about that..
Good report. When I did mine I bought the install tool. Did the first one and thought that it was going to damage the seal. Went back to the old trusty deep set socket and it worked great.
hmm I noticed mine has been doing that afew thousand after my cam install. Some of them I installed with the valve seal tool and some other I did it with socket..Seemed like the socket drove them further down and I got a "thunk sound" meaning the were bottoned out vs the actual GM tool. I have my coil packs off and I need to change the valve cover seals since they are leaking. I will have to take a look and see if I can see any issues. Thanks for the info I would of never thought about that..
Originally Posted by Paul 75 L82
Good report. When I did mine I bought the install tool. Did the first one and thought that it was going to damage the seal. Went back to the old trusty deep set socket and it worked great.
I didn't install them the first time, I paid someone to do it. They insured/promised me they were installed properly, which was another reason I was looking elsewhere for a long time.
When I just installed them I used a 12mm socket, gentle taps until i heard the distinct bottoming out sound then one or two more taps + an inspection to make sure the seal wasn't damaged. I also lubed them with oil before putting them on.
I did damage one every so slightly by being too aggressive. Luckily a friend had extra seals, and I was able to borrow a few.
If I do it again, I'd probably order 20 instead of 16 in case I botch 1 or two. They only cost $1.75.
I have a question, I've never replaced valve seals with the head on the block.
how far down will the valve drop without the keepers? Do I need to take the head off?
you need an air compressor, and a compression tester. remove the schrader valve, connect the compression tester hose to the air compressor instead of the compression gauge. this keeps the valves up. Or else the will go into the cylinders.
Take off the coilpacks and remove the 4 8mm bolts and you should see this. Don't mind the crooked looking one I had loosened it before I took the pic
Take out this 8mm on the rocker.
Take the pushrod out..
This is what you should have..
Then take the rocker arm pedestal out and for some reason mine was on upside down...wonder why?
all out
and in order
Here is the tool..besides the guy using it..
I just used fitting you find in a compression tester..Figured I better not drink during this process..
Take out the shrader valve and screw it into the cylinder you are working on. I also used the TDC method because I didn't wanna end up what I did on the first one almost dropping the damn thing..
Tighten everything up and then start cranking down..SOme of the locks needed a tap on them to come loose..
Once you take those locks off you just pull the spring/retainer out and your left with the seal and seat.
old stuff.
I used a pair of plies and a little twist and turn and they come right out and used a magnetic tool for the seats to come out.
The install is the opposite oil everything up drop the seat in. Put the new seals in and I used the tool that your supposed to use I didn't like the socket and hammer idea. It was 7 bucks off ebay..J-42078 Valve Stem Oil Seal Installer
I read somewhere that the locks are a pain to install and use some lube to keep them on the top of the valve. It worked like a champ..
one is done..
15 more to go..It goes quick after the first one..all done!!!
I'm trying to free this Friday up to get the cam and meth in..
There is a small hole I tagged in this picture. You can see in my procedure below where I stuffed the blue shop paper towels in the holes. I was warned by two friends who dropped a valve lock and it did a 1 in a million bounce and went in the hole.
I dropped a lock and it fell in the Long Tube collector, took about an hour to find it, but the whole time I was wondering "did it go in the hole into the head?" save your self a *FML* moment and just stuff a towel in the holes.
That sure is a fancy valve spring tool ya got there. I've used the Crane tool like Chicago1 posted. One of the washers from that tool ended up down that oil drain back port in the head. In fact, just as I was saying to a buddy... "Be careful with that washer.. don't let it fall down the hea..." right when he dropped the washer (or maybe it was the nut) into the head. It wedged between the lifter tray and the side of the head.
08-25-2014, 04:54 PM
Smoking / Consuming Oil (solved)
I've used the Crane tool like Chicago1 posted. One of the washers from that tool ended up down that oil drain back port in the head. In fact, just as I was saying to a buddy... "Be careful with that washer.. don't let it fall down the hea..." right when he dropped the washer (or maybe it was the nut) into the head. It wedged between the lifter tray and the side of the head.