Just want to throw this out there without giving much of an opinion to start...

What are your thoughts on a tuner who locks your ECU? -- Tuners and Customers both should feel free to chime in

Some questions that come to mind:

If your ECU is locked, would you expect that it be explained to you in advance (maybe even sign a contract that you agree) or find out later on your own? If you sign nothing and are not informed, is it even legal to lock a person out of an ECU that they own? Would you want the tuner to put it in writing and have you agree? Would you even agree if you knew in advance it would be locked? Do you consider it similar to an End User License Agreement (EULA)? Do you feel that you paid for something you subsequently do not own? Do you feel it may change the value of the car if you decide to sell it? Do you think someone who sets up parameters on your car owns that data, regardless if you own the car, ECU, etc.? Do you think it is intellectual property that belongs to the tuner and you simply paid for his/her skills at tuning and not the actual settings entered into your ECU?

Those are just a few questions of which I am sure there are more, but prefer to open it up for some discussion

So, what are you thoughts?

P.S. Locking most ECUs can prevent you from doing very simple things. So, this is not just about messing with your VE or timing tables, etc. If it's locked and you change a sensor and want to input a new calibration, you might be SOL.

Let's discuss

 

I understand to a point why some tuners feel the need to do it. It seems the main reason for doing it is because they don't want others using there work. On that note, any real tuner knows that no two combos are the same so for those out there who would steal someone's work they are usually short lived as tuners as word of mouth seems to be the largest reason tuners get or don't get customer's. Because of that and a couple of other things, I see no real reason a tuner should lock a customer's VCM without the express written consent of the customer. If that happened to me, I'd politely ask the tuner to unlock the VCM. If he refused, I would then offer him his tune back and request a full refund of money paid for tuning service's as well as the unlocking of my VCM as well as never using his services again but all in all we would be in good standing with each other. If he refused that, I would take the appropriate legal steps necessary to rectify the situation and I'd never use his service's again and we wouldn't be in good standing with each other.

 

If your ECU is locked, I guess you are "renting" the settings.

But, let's say you have the ability to pull timing off your trans brake and you are at some track and lifting wheels or spinning and want to access the ECU and pull a little timing off the line. However, you don't have the password. What do you do? You have now lost the ability to do even simple things.

Or, let's say your fuel pressure sensor stops working and you find one at a local store that uses a different calibration. Easy enough to change in the ECU... But, you can't.

next thing you may find out is that each update costs you money - not only for some sensor but a way for the tuner to open your ECU and change a simple calibration.

There are more examples... Maybe I am speaking more to guys who race and make changes in real time at the track versus street tunes, which may not change.

Of course, what ya gonna do if you want to sell the car? Do you sell the tuner with it or advise the person if they ever want to change it they need to wipe it out and start from scratch?

 

Definitely valid points you make. In the end, it's your VCM and your tune and a tuner needa to divulge that information upfront so the customer can make a choice if he wants to enlist the services of that tuner.

 

Doesn't matter, you're still gonna lift the wheels

 

Not if I can help it: Just say no to wheelies. I think you just want me to crap in my pants. So, I'll do that at home and ship em to you in advance

 

I think the tuners that lock PCM's without disclosing that fact up front are being shady. These are the tuners that will lock a PCM and then will only freely put it back to stock in the future once the customer finds out it is locked and is trying to do more tuning work another way. This means the customer loses their investment in the original tune they had understood they owned without any conditions.

I can understand tuners wanting to protect the tuning knowledge they have learned, but at least be up front about it. Many are, and at that point the customer can decide if they want to proceed with that tuner and have a locked PCM before they tune is completed.

 

Jay if you get a package from Dave dont open send back to sender. Dave Jay told me he has your car set up to pull a bigger wheelie than he did.

 

I would go to another tuner it's my [bad words here] car!

 

Locking someone's tune, without advance notification and permission, is pure deception and total BS. Period.

 

Absolutely!

 

It's their way of "locking" you into only being able to come to them for anything pcm related.

I understand them wanting to protect their intellect. I have read many other people's files to get a better understanding of pcm tuning in my day. But I've never locked anyone's file.

 

 

I agree with the comments I've read.

By the way: My ECU is not locked. I just wanted to get thoughts on the topic.

In my humble opinion; I own the car, I own the ECU and, if I pay someone to tune it, I own the parameters they enter into it. I should not be locked out of anything I own unless I explicitly agree to that in advance of any work commencing.

For me, it would not work out: I access my ECU. As for why I access it or what I do with it... irrelevant.

If a tuner feels his/her entries into my ECU are his/her property (for any reason, does not matter) and no one else will/should have access to it, I would take my business elsewhere.

Therefore, I would expect any tuner to outline ECU Locking in advance, including an agreement, similar to an End User License agreement that is accepted and signed. This should include information such as, what would be required to unlock it (e.g., it will never be, it would cost more, etc., etc.). The agreement should also explain how any changes would be made to the locked ECU, who is authorized to make such changes, how much would it cost for such changes (at present and into the future); is it done remote or does the car need to be taken somewhere, how the lock is handled if the car is sold (transfer of support), etc., etc.

Be open up front: tell the customer if you lock the ECU and explain what that means to them, since not everyone may understand it, and let them agree or walk away.

 

Just scanning through the comments here. Might have missed it, but the only reason to lock a tune isn't to protect intellectual data. One more is to protect your business and the customer. What I mean by that is: let's say you build an entire car for a customer and offer a warranty along with it. Motor, tune and all. You get it dialed in perfectly and the customer is super happy with it. One day, they get bored, buy HPT, screw it all up, blow the motor, put the tune back to your calibration and try to get warranty work done. We all know people out there like this.^^^^ In this case you would be protecting the customer from themselves.
I totally agree all should be disclosed in advance.

 

Unless you specifically agree to sign over rights of the software to the tuner, anything you hire the tuner to do belongs to you. It's no different than a company hiring a software programmer to write a piece of custom enterprise software; the software and its subsequent intellectual rights belong to the company. Locking you out of the computer is unethical as the computer modules and the software belong to the car's owner, not the tuner.

 

I will NEVER take my car to a tuner that locks the PCM.. If i want to tune myself later down the road or add a blower and have it adjusted that is my choice. the PCM is yours, the Tune is yours (they are adjusting your cars stock computer and you are paying for it.. Hence you own it.) and that is just bad business. What if you move, sell the car (the next poor sap is screwed), or that tuner goes under what then. That is just something that a tuner should not do to a customers car.. I would find a tuner that will not lock the PCM (Thats what i did). I understand there are people that will copy that tune and send it to the internet/another car... but that is just how it is.. They are the exception not the rule (most people don't buy a tune then blast it out to everyone they know)., no different then a mail order tune... Are they locked? (not to my knowledge).

S

 

What happens if he dies or goes out of business?

 

I can see the validity there.