I've been reading on the forums a whole lot, and I've narrowed down my decision to several good choices. I'd like to hear some opinions from you guys and if anyone has these cams. I have a '99 M6 C5, I'm installing LG Street Long tubes and a cam soon. It'll have the stock LS1 intake, stock 853 heads, and stock 3.42 gears. It's not a daily driver, but I do use it to romp around on the streets and it may see a track once a year (if ever) so a massive cam with all top end power, it's going to be good for my style. I like the following cams:

TSP 233/239 595/603 on 112

TSP Torquer V4 231/234 619/612 on 111

Tick SNS Torquemax Stage 3 235/243 62X/62X on 111 + 2

BTR n/a stage 3 231/242 617/592 on 112 + 2


Also, are the stock clutches really that weak that i'll fry this thing quickly playing around the street? Also considering LS7 Clutch upgrade.

 

all too big for stock heads and stock compression.

texas speed 224R is as big as i would ever consider on a stock engine. more compression and more head would allow more cam, then your bottom end becomes a limiting factor in the rpms it can handle. you start getting above 230deg and you start having pretty solid airflow in the mid to high 6s. that isn't going to keep your bottom end alive for long if you drive hard frequently

stock heads are stalling by 550 lift, a 224r on 112 is going to have a very strong midrange and keep your bottom end alive.

 

Wow that is Excellent information! I did forget to mention that I am having my stock heads milled to up the compression and a 5 angle valve job (I know 853s suck but I can get it done for dirt cheap). How does that change the equation?

 

not by a lot. you're still flow limited and rpm limited due to the bottom end and stock heads.

you're going to be a LOT happier with a 224R with what you'd doing.

things you need to research

1. how duration affects cylinder fill and relates to rpm
2. the effect of the LSA on powerband
3. how duration comes into play with engine size and compression
4. how lift numbers and head flow charts basically tell you how much lift to use

with stock heads you won't have a lot of flow but smaller runners are great for velocity off the bat. take advantage of this and your ls1 intake manifold with a cam that's already on the ball by 3000rpm like the 224R. this also will save your bottom end as you will shift around 6000 not a bearing spinning 6800-7000 like some of those really race oriented grinds

if you build a larger displacement engine at 11:1 compression those larger cams start really making great power, they always have. on a 346 at 10:1 or 10:5-1 they are just too big

 

I really appreciate the insight, this is exactly the kind of answer I was hoping for! I have some more research to do and I certainly will look at that cam. What are safe RPM's on a stock LS1 bottom end with stock rod bolts? Keep her at 6k RPM? That's for steering me in the right direction

 

i honestly don't know. first you have pre 01 bottom ends and post 01 bottom ends, the post 01 bottom ends seem to hold up better. the pre 01 bottom ends....ask those in the know. my inkling is around factory redline.

maybe one of the guys who's really up on 97-00 stock bottom ends will chime in

i'm looking at the whole picture when that 224r came to mind. your head flow and the bottom end. a pair of 243 heads even with a basic bowl blend done in the garage would probably net you a solid 30hp with that cam by the way

from what people have said, the guys at texas speed are really helpful. chat them up and go over cam basics and what you want to achieve. they have a lot of tested combos they can share with you and what expected dynos will likely be

 

Go ahead with the cheap milling, IMO. Go for around 11:1 SCR for a nice torque boost with that small cam. That CR works even with 91 too if you're in one of those places. Also, a good tune.

 

What size chambers gives me 11:1 CR? Do I have to start worrying about PTV at this point? I'm going to have Geoff with EPS tune my car, and it sounds like I just need to go ahead and have him spec me a cam too... I've heard nothing but amazing things about EPS cams!

 

Geoff tuned my 2000 Coupe after my longtube header install and I couldn't be happier.

 

depends on how much overlap the cam has. what you need to do is hone in a cam then set the compression for what that cam wants. a cam that builds cyl pressure early will be happier with less compression. more duration and overlap will like 11:1

let's get you figured on a cam then discuss compression.

 

I say just the opposite. Plan your cam specs around higher compression, and airflow estimates. EPS will know what to do. Generally, about 60 cubic centimeter chambers will get you 11:1. I make this recommendation based on your plan of cheap machine work.

 

The stock clutch will not survive long....depending the miles, maybe not even the dyno.

 

with stock 853 heads? if you put that up to 11:1 it's going to have detonation issues on smaller grinds if you run a full timing curve. the only way i could think of to get around this is with a lot of overlap and that could get hard to tune. it's either that or you're pulling timing in the map and or trying to band aid it running rich

if he had more flow you could argue a larger cam but it's basically pointless to lift an 853 to 600 lift. more stress of the VT and more rpm for what?

take advantage of the velocity of a small port with a cam that comes on early.

most the 220-225deg grinds are designed around 10:1 and 10:5-1 and build good cylinder pressure with those numbers. using 11:1 on a cam like that runs the risk of either needing 94-95 octane or a reduced timing curve which reduces mpg and increases emissions

until the total airflow and desired rpm are figured i don't see why someone would select compression first, it could be completely wrong for the rest of the parts

if the OP is after hp. really, the best thing he could do is spend 12hrs with a die grinder and get a set of 243 heads along with a 2001+ intake manifold. ported those can move some air and they are a very simple casting to port. you just follow the lines, stock shape is great. then you could take about a bit more compression and a bit more duration.

then....it's just he bottom end that's the limiting factor...which is yet something else to figure. what can an early ls1 spin to over and over and still go 50k more miles

 

I talked to Geoff over at EPS today and he recommended his 226/234 604/604 at 113 to accomplish my goals. He said that cam would be happy at around 10.8:1 compression with that setup and have crazy power under the curve. I would like a set of 243s and an LS6 manifold, and will probably eventually purchase them. I am on a budget though, getting married in September and this is what I can afford to do now. My goal is 400rwhp and a torque monster, so this should get me there with room to grow.

 

Now save up for a clutch, and congrats!

 

Well what's y'alls opinion of the "best bang for your buck" clutch?

Monster stage 1, LS7, or Spec ?

Also, I noticed that you can get a Luk LS7 clutch and flywheel for $300.. is this worth a damn since it's not a OEM LS7 clutch?

 

Only experience I have is my RPS twin. Great clutch, but pretty spendy. I got lucky, and traded other parts for it.

 

problem is you will be tuning twice, unless you are doing your own tunes that's another added expense. you're looking at 1000 bucks for the heads and manifold + your time porting the heads and $50 in sanding rolls and bits for the air die grinder.

you're also going to need a clutch, ls7, monster etc $600-800

if your local shop will give you a deal on retunes that could make sense. around here it's just $400 a wack so definitely ask first.


if you're on a budget you could just do headers until you save up for the rest. headers you can run alright on a stock fuel/timing map. isn't ideal but it's not a problem

btw did you ever find out where the early ls1 bottom ends start to fly apart? most the time when you get around 230deg of duration with that LSA you have a 6500-6700 cam. might be lower with your heads simply because of where they will stall but it's something i would be wanting to find out if i was in your shoes