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Old Jun 16, 2015 | 05:38 PM
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Default Pull key wait ten seconds...

Can someone tell me what is happening during the 10 seconds your waiting before you reinsert the key and start?
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Old Jun 16, 2015 | 06:04 PM
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You're getting more and more pissed?
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Old Jun 16, 2015 | 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mrlmd
You're getting more and more pissed?
Lol... I can see that... I don't have the issue, just wondering what is taking place with the car during that interval....
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Old Jun 16, 2015 | 10:09 PM
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Awesome explanation, thank you! I always just assumed the car was just trying to remind me it could ruin my day for no reason at any time.
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 01:18 AM
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I thought it was the car saying " I don't like the way you turn me on" so try again.
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 04:42 PM
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Are 2004 C-5 automatic transmission cars subject to this nonsense?
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 05:43 PM
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Great description 8vette7, i don't even have my first vette yet, have heard of steering lock issues and I think I understand.
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Old Jun 19, 2015 | 10:59 AM
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Thank you Chuck, I now have a better understanding of the process that the C5 column lock system goes through before, during, and after key insertions... It's no wonder these cars have so many electronic issues with all that is going on at the same time when you insert a key in the ignition... it's like "LET THE GAMES BEGIN" it's normally all good, as long as the voltage makes everybody playing happy...
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Old Jul 19, 2015 | 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 8VETTE7
First you have to understand what causes that message to appear!!

The BCM issue commands to what it thinks is the lock motor and expects back responses to the Lock or Unlock commands. The BCM also keeps "state" of what it "thinks" is the position of the lock pin. Because the BCM has no PHYSICAL way to know if the pin is inserted (locked) or retracted (unlocked) it must rely on a command and response protocol. The BCM further knows the difference between inserting the key into the key cylinder and removing the key from the key cylinder.

When the system is working normally this is what happens:

Insert key, BCM recognises insertion and checks its state of the lock pin. If the state is inserted then it sends an UNLOCK command to the lock motor. Lock motor receives unlock , retracts the pin and sends completed signal on the unlock path to BCM. BCM receives completed for unlock and marks state of the pin as retracted then allows the engine to be started and car driven.

Engine is turned off and key removed from cylinder. BCM recognises removal of key and sends a Lock command to the lock motor. Lock motor inserts pin and sends completed on lock path to the BCM. BCM receives completed on lock path and marks the state of the pin as inserted.

There are many conditions that can cause the BCM and lock motor to get out of sync such that the BCM may 'think" the column is locked (pin inserted) when it is actually unlocked ( pin retracted) and vice versa.

If the BCM has a state of "retracted" and sees the key being inserted it knows something is WRONG so it makes an attempt to get back in sync by raising the "Pull Key..." message in the DIC. If this is done by the driver and the signals flow correctly between the lock motor and the BCM, the BCM will see the key removal, send a LOCK command and hopefully get back a completed signal and then change the state to locked and get itself back in sync with the lock status.

If the BCM has a state of locked and sends an UNLOCK command it expects to get back a completed signal. If the BCM fails to get back the completed signal and the car has had the 2mph fuel shutoff set by the GM Recall Service, the BCM sends an "enable fuel shutoff" to the PCM then raises "Service Column Lock" in the DIC. The PCM will shut off the fuel when the value of the fuel shutoff has been reached. That is why setting the fuel shutoff speed to a high number defeats the GM intended feature that would prevent a "dumb" driver from attempting to drive the car with the column locked. Great idea to prevent the car from being driven but in actual implementation the car may or may not actually have its column locked. The problem is that there are far too many ways for the BCM to get out of sync with the actual condition of the lock pin. GM chose to fail on the safe side with their implementation even if it left the driver stranded because a weak battery was preventing signals from being transmitted.

The LMC5 and CLB simply "fool" the BCM into thinking the column is functioning correctly by more reliably responding to the BCM commands than does the lock motor. A prerequsite for either the CLB or LMC5 is that the column be physically unlocked and then the power path to the lock motor is removed. This leaves the column physically UNLOCKED forever. Then all that is necessary is for something to respond to the BCM commands. The advantage the LMC5 has over the CLB is that it connects right at the BCM so there is no factory wiring, relays, etc still in the electrical path. The CLB connects under the steering column and therefore relies on the factory wiring and Column Lock Relay. Those often fail and the result is the CLB no longer gets the BCM commands or if it gets them it may not have a path back to the BCM to reply on.

Long winded explanation but that is what is happening and why.
I have the LMC5 and I still get the "pull key..." message. I have also got the Service Column Lock message, but that can be cleared by pulling a fuse. The "pull key..." message has come back with a vengeance in that past month or so, that's why I was searching and found this thread.

Is it also true that the "pull key..." message will be displayed if the alternator voltage is not correct on start-up?
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Old Jul 19, 2015 | 08:06 PM
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Not sure about the voltage business... but, have you done the brown wire MOD?
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Old Jul 24, 2015 | 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 8VETTE7
...I suggest you contact Compliance parts and discuss your symptoms with them. Their number and email address is on their web site.
I'm taking your suggestion. Thanks.
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Old Jul 24, 2015 | 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 73Corvette
Not sure about the voltage business... but, have you done the brown wire MOD?
No, I had not heard of it. I just spoke with Richard at Compliance and he feels that will fix my problem. Thanks!
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Old Aug 1, 2015 | 01:12 PM
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Quick update- The brown wire mod seems to have fixed the problem. I know I just jinxed myself by writing this.

Edit- Ha! I just realized I hijacked somebody else's thread. Sorry. But, my problem is still fixed, so I'll just run with it...

Last edited by TorqueWinsRaces; Aug 1, 2015 at 01:20 PM.
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Old Aug 1, 2015 | 03:00 PM
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Glad you were able to get your problem solved....
ANY hijack that gives RICHARD at COMPLIANCE parts air time is GREAT!
HE IS AWESOME!!!
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