Serious clutch issues!!!! Help!!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 168
Likes: 5
From: Rochester NY
Serious clutch issues!!!! Help!!!
Hello All,
I have a serious issue with my new clutch that was just installed by a very reputable race shop that specializes in LS motors. I had a Mantic ER2 installed and already have a Tick adjustable master with new bearings like throw out, pilot and of course while we were there a slave cylinder. So here is the problem. I go to release the clutch on start off it starts vibrating violently, and especially if the rpm is a little higher than it should be as if you were feathering the gas way too high, and even depressing the clutch pedal does not stop it once it starts. And at times when driving it and shifting it vibrates terribly. I was on the highway and dropped it into 3rd gear and had it at 4,000 rpm and it was just shaking the steering wheel and shifter violently. It comes and goes but is very apparent to me and notice it the most cause it is my car. They are basically saying it is just a new clutch and is chatter. But that much vibration in the driveline when releasing clutch should not happen and it should go away if I depress the clutch all the way again. And it certainly should not be so obviously start to shake the whole car while in gear driving down the highway. Sometimes I can get it to go away by changing gears a few times and then going back which tells me there is something wrong with the clutch or the alignment or the master. I am ready to bring it to a different corvette specialty shop and have them look at it so I can get it fixed. But I just spent a lot of money on this and now have to go elsewhere to get it fixed PROPERLY. PLEASE HELP WITH IDEAS OF THE CAUSE!! Thanks.
Kevin
I have a serious issue with my new clutch that was just installed by a very reputable race shop that specializes in LS motors. I had a Mantic ER2 installed and already have a Tick adjustable master with new bearings like throw out, pilot and of course while we were there a slave cylinder. So here is the problem. I go to release the clutch on start off it starts vibrating violently, and especially if the rpm is a little higher than it should be as if you were feathering the gas way too high, and even depressing the clutch pedal does not stop it once it starts. And at times when driving it and shifting it vibrates terribly. I was on the highway and dropped it into 3rd gear and had it at 4,000 rpm and it was just shaking the steering wheel and shifter violently. It comes and goes but is very apparent to me and notice it the most cause it is my car. They are basically saying it is just a new clutch and is chatter. But that much vibration in the driveline when releasing clutch should not happen and it should go away if I depress the clutch all the way again. And it certainly should not be so obviously start to shake the whole car while in gear driving down the highway. Sometimes I can get it to go away by changing gears a few times and then going back which tells me there is something wrong with the clutch or the alignment or the master. I am ready to bring it to a different corvette specialty shop and have them look at it so I can get it fixed. But I just spent a lot of money on this and now have to go elsewhere to get it fixed PROPERLY. PLEASE HELP WITH IDEAS OF THE CAUSE!! Thanks.
Kevin
Drifting
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,547
Likes: 210
From: Huntersville, NC
It kinda hard to understand exactly when the vibration occurs, so if you could, back up a second and walk through the symptoms. give us some facts. Try this: give a simple response to:
1. clutch pedal fully depressed trans in neutral, vibration?
2. Release clutch in neutral, car not moving, vibration?
3. Rev engine, Vibration?
4. Depress clutch fully, put trans in each gear. Goes in smoothly, (indication of full disengagement of clutch) Yes/no
5. Slowly engage clutch, vibration starts immediately? Y/n
6. Drive car up to highway speed like a Chauffeur (that is as easy and smooth as you can) When does vibration begin?
7. in a high gear, can you cause the clutch to slip?
You can probably think of a few more conditions as well, type them in and give the car's response. usually when a frustrated poster writes a long paragraph few responses come back.
My initial guess would be problems in the torque tube, since you indicated all the clutch parts were replaced. Now, did the installer make sure the slave cylinder has the proper dimensional relationship with the clutch? not sure how this could cause a problem, but if it was causing the clutch to slip, then you might have overheated the disc and transferred clutch disc material to the PP and the Flywheel. If your clutch disc is red hot and you shut down, the disc is pressed tight against and you can get transfer if is was smokin' hot when you stopped. That might later cause it to shake like a dog passin' peach pits when the clutch is being engaged. Some clutch compositions give off a funky odor when they overheat.
You might call the clutch mfr and discuss with them and see if there is a break-in procedure for that clutch.
1. clutch pedal fully depressed trans in neutral, vibration?
2. Release clutch in neutral, car not moving, vibration?
3. Rev engine, Vibration?
4. Depress clutch fully, put trans in each gear. Goes in smoothly, (indication of full disengagement of clutch) Yes/no
5. Slowly engage clutch, vibration starts immediately? Y/n
6. Drive car up to highway speed like a Chauffeur (that is as easy and smooth as you can) When does vibration begin?
7. in a high gear, can you cause the clutch to slip?
You can probably think of a few more conditions as well, type them in and give the car's response. usually when a frustrated poster writes a long paragraph few responses come back.
My initial guess would be problems in the torque tube, since you indicated all the clutch parts were replaced. Now, did the installer make sure the slave cylinder has the proper dimensional relationship with the clutch? not sure how this could cause a problem, but if it was causing the clutch to slip, then you might have overheated the disc and transferred clutch disc material to the PP and the Flywheel. If your clutch disc is red hot and you shut down, the disc is pressed tight against and you can get transfer if is was smokin' hot when you stopped. That might later cause it to shake like a dog passin' peach pits when the clutch is being engaged. Some clutch compositions give off a funky odor when they overheat.
You might call the clutch mfr and discuss with them and see if there is a break-in procedure for that clutch.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 168
Likes: 5
From: Rochester NY
1.Trans in neutral seems to get rid of vibration.
2.Release clutch in neutral and seems fine.
3.Rev engine in neutral there is no problem. Reving it too high on starting off and release clutch a little and vibration is terrible and depressing the clutch once it starts does not help.
4. Clutch seems to get the car into all the gears fine but sometimes is a fight and when driving and depressing the clutch fully the shifter vibrates badly and is hard to shift. It feels bad as if the clutch is not completely disengaging. Which gives me the issue of fighting it while driving.
5. Slowly engaging the clutch sometimes helps unless you give it too much gas. But always vibrates badly when it starts to engage but obviously more apparent when the engine is revving higher instead of feathering the gas.
6. Vibration in the clutch when driving up to speed is noticed at all speeds and gears but when the car starts to get to 50mph you start feel vibration through the whole car much worse. In 4th gear is the worse. A constant vibration in the driveline.
7. The car does seem to slip but what I feel is a studder or hesitation as if it is slipping and then finally grabs and goes. Which I didn't think because its brand new! But very well could be slipping on me which is the hesitation I feel.
Hopefully this helps, like I said, car shifted beautifully for awhile when I first got it back and also never vibrated nor caused driveline vibration when just driving down the road in gear. And never in start up shoke the car violently. Now all this takes place and they say it is a new clutch but it didn't do this at first and seems to be getting worse. Thanks for your help.
Kevin
2.Release clutch in neutral and seems fine.
3.Rev engine in neutral there is no problem. Reving it too high on starting off and release clutch a little and vibration is terrible and depressing the clutch once it starts does not help.
4. Clutch seems to get the car into all the gears fine but sometimes is a fight and when driving and depressing the clutch fully the shifter vibrates badly and is hard to shift. It feels bad as if the clutch is not completely disengaging. Which gives me the issue of fighting it while driving.
5. Slowly engaging the clutch sometimes helps unless you give it too much gas. But always vibrates badly when it starts to engage but obviously more apparent when the engine is revving higher instead of feathering the gas.
6. Vibration in the clutch when driving up to speed is noticed at all speeds and gears but when the car starts to get to 50mph you start feel vibration through the whole car much worse. In 4th gear is the worse. A constant vibration in the driveline.
7. The car does seem to slip but what I feel is a studder or hesitation as if it is slipping and then finally grabs and goes. Which I didn't think because its brand new! But very well could be slipping on me which is the hesitation I feel.
Hopefully this helps, like I said, car shifted beautifully for awhile when I first got it back and also never vibrated nor caused driveline vibration when just driving down the road in gear. And never in start up shoke the car violently. Now all this takes place and they say it is a new clutch but it didn't do this at first and seems to be getting worse. Thanks for your help.
Kevin
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,644
Likes: 479
From: OK
1.Trans in neutral seems to get rid of vibration.
2.Release clutch in neutral and seems fine.
3.Rev engine in neutral there is no problem. Reving it too high on starting off and release clutch a little and vibration is terrible and depressing the clutch once it starts does not help.
4. Clutch seems to get the car into all the gears fine but sometimes is a fight and when driving and depressing the clutch fully the shifter vibrates badly and is hard to shift. It feels bad as if the clutch is not completely disengaging. Which gives me the issue of fighting it while driving.
5. Slowly engaging the clutch sometimes helps unless you give it too much gas. But always vibrates badly when it starts to engage but obviously more apparent when the engine is revving higher instead of feathering the gas.
6. Vibration in the clutch when driving up to speed is noticed at all speeds and gears but when the car starts to get to 50mph you start feel vibration through the whole car much worse. In 4th gear is the worse. A constant vibration in the driveline.
7. The car does seem to slip but what I feel is a studder or hesitation as if it is slipping and then finally grabs and goes. Which I didn't think because its brand new! But very well could be slipping on me which is the hesitation I feel.
Hopefully this helps, like I said, car shifted beautifully for awhile when I first got it back and also never vibrated nor caused driveline vibration when just driving down the road in gear. And never in start up shoke the car violently. Now all this takes place and they say it is a new clutch but it didn't do this at first and seems to be getting worse. Thanks for your help.
Kevin
2.Release clutch in neutral and seems fine.
3.Rev engine in neutral there is no problem. Reving it too high on starting off and release clutch a little and vibration is terrible and depressing the clutch once it starts does not help.
4. Clutch seems to get the car into all the gears fine but sometimes is a fight and when driving and depressing the clutch fully the shifter vibrates badly and is hard to shift. It feels bad as if the clutch is not completely disengaging. Which gives me the issue of fighting it while driving.
5. Slowly engaging the clutch sometimes helps unless you give it too much gas. But always vibrates badly when it starts to engage but obviously more apparent when the engine is revving higher instead of feathering the gas.
6. Vibration in the clutch when driving up to speed is noticed at all speeds and gears but when the car starts to get to 50mph you start feel vibration through the whole car much worse. In 4th gear is the worse. A constant vibration in the driveline.
7. The car does seem to slip but what I feel is a studder or hesitation as if it is slipping and then finally grabs and goes. Which I didn't think because its brand new! But very well could be slipping on me which is the hesitation I feel.
Hopefully this helps, like I said, car shifted beautifully for awhile when I first got it back and also never vibrated nor caused driveline vibration when just driving down the road in gear. And never in start up shoke the car violently. Now all this takes place and they say it is a new clutch but it didn't do this at first and seems to be getting worse. Thanks for your help.
Kevin
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,596
Likes: 67
From: Bahama North Carolina
1.Trans in neutral seems to get rid of vibration.
2.Release clutch in neutral and seems fine.
3.Rev engine in neutral there is no problem. Reving it too high on starting off and release clutch a little and vibration is terrible and depressing the clutch once it starts does not help.
4. Clutch seems to get the car into all the gears fine but sometimes is a fight and when driving and depressing the clutch fully the shifter vibrates badly and is hard to shift. It feels bad as if the clutch is not completely disengaging. Which gives me the issue of fighting it while driving.
5. Slowly engaging the clutch sometimes helps unless you give it too much gas. But always vibrates badly when it starts to engage but obviously more apparent when the engine is revving higher instead of feathering the gas.
6. Vibration in the clutch when driving up to speed is noticed at all speeds and gears but when the car starts to get to 50mph you start feel vibration through the whole car much worse. In 4th gear is the worse. A constant vibration in the driveline.
7. The car does seem to slip but what I feel is a studder or hesitation as if it is slipping and then finally grabs and goes. Which I didn't think because its brand new! But very well could be slipping on me which is the hesitation I feel.
Hopefully this helps, like I said, car shifted beautifully for awhile when I first got it back and also never vibrated nor caused driveline vibration when just driving down the road in gear. And never in start up shoke the car violently. Now all this takes place and they say it is a new clutch but it didn't do this at first and seems to be getting worse. Thanks for your help.
Kevin
2.Release clutch in neutral and seems fine.
3.Rev engine in neutral there is no problem. Reving it too high on starting off and release clutch a little and vibration is terrible and depressing the clutch once it starts does not help.
4. Clutch seems to get the car into all the gears fine but sometimes is a fight and when driving and depressing the clutch fully the shifter vibrates badly and is hard to shift. It feels bad as if the clutch is not completely disengaging. Which gives me the issue of fighting it while driving.
5. Slowly engaging the clutch sometimes helps unless you give it too much gas. But always vibrates badly when it starts to engage but obviously more apparent when the engine is revving higher instead of feathering the gas.
6. Vibration in the clutch when driving up to speed is noticed at all speeds and gears but when the car starts to get to 50mph you start feel vibration through the whole car much worse. In 4th gear is the worse. A constant vibration in the driveline.
7. The car does seem to slip but what I feel is a studder or hesitation as if it is slipping and then finally grabs and goes. Which I didn't think because its brand new! But very well could be slipping on me which is the hesitation I feel.
Hopefully this helps, like I said, car shifted beautifully for awhile when I first got it back and also never vibrated nor caused driveline vibration when just driving down the road in gear. And never in start up shoke the car violently. Now all this takes place and they say it is a new clutch but it didn't do this at first and seems to be getting worse. Thanks for your help.
Kevin
Drifting
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,547
Likes: 210
From: Huntersville, NC
So revving the engine in neutral should rule out a balance problem with the engine/clutch portion of the system.
If the clutch is slipping the speedo and tach will tell you that. If you put the car in a high gear and press the happy pedal while going down the road steady speed, you should see the tach needle go up not in relation to increasing wheel speed.
I'm with the last two posters. I think it may be clutch, how about a leak in the fluid hydraulics contaminating the clutch, or a bad rear main seal.
There are actually 2 seals associated with the rear main, there is a rear main seal cover and the rear main seal. Usually the rear main seal leaks, but there was a service bulletin out many years ago about porosity in the block casting causing a leak at the rear main cover. I will hunt it down and see if I can find it and post it later. It is an easy fix but the flywheel has to be off and that means dropping the drivetrain.
Was the rear main replaced? or do you see oil on the ground at the bellhousing?. Has the level in the clutch master gone down? Maybe the bolts that hold the flywheel to crank or PP to flywheel are loose.
I think you are headed back to the shop and a clutch inspection. Be sure to check the torquetube when torn down. Maybe too soon to rule out the trans as well.
If the clutch is slipping the speedo and tach will tell you that. If you put the car in a high gear and press the happy pedal while going down the road steady speed, you should see the tach needle go up not in relation to increasing wheel speed.
I'm with the last two posters. I think it may be clutch, how about a leak in the fluid hydraulics contaminating the clutch, or a bad rear main seal.
There are actually 2 seals associated with the rear main, there is a rear main seal cover and the rear main seal. Usually the rear main seal leaks, but there was a service bulletin out many years ago about porosity in the block casting causing a leak at the rear main cover. I will hunt it down and see if I can find it and post it later. It is an easy fix but the flywheel has to be off and that means dropping the drivetrain.
Was the rear main replaced? or do you see oil on the ground at the bellhousing?. Has the level in the clutch master gone down? Maybe the bolts that hold the flywheel to crank or PP to flywheel are loose.
I think you are headed back to the shop and a clutch inspection. Be sure to check the torquetube when torn down. Maybe too soon to rule out the trans as well.
Drifting
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,547
Likes: 210
From: Huntersville, NC
the oil leak tech service bulletin:
05-06-01-034J: Engine Oil Leak at Rear Cover Assembly Area
only appears to apply to vettes 03 and later. Reason I knew about is that it got the clutch on my 2007 CTS-V
05-06-01-034J: Engine Oil Leak at Rear Cover Assembly Area
only appears to apply to vettes 03 and later. Reason I knew about is that it got the clutch on my 2007 CTS-V
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 168
Likes: 5
From: Rochester NY
Moving to a new shop
I'm assuming they checked all that stuff with the new clutch install and they keep blowing me off and tell me everything looks normal when on a lift. But obviously with the way it drives something is wrong and is getting worse. They drive it down the street and back and say it's just chatter but the only way the issue becomes really apparent is to drive it a good amount and on the highway. I'm so annoyed and they obviously are convinced they think nothing is wrong. So the only way to prove them wrong is to have a different shop look at it and find the evidence. Which is costly but I do have 2 lawyers in the family ready to sue if they screwed up and wouldn't fix there mistake. I'm small potatoes to them compared to all the big race car jobs they do for big money customers which is why I'm guessing they have been blowing me off. And they are really busy right now. I have another shop nearby that works on and only sells corvette's so I'm inclined to bring the car to them and get this figured out for once and for all. I know not adjusting my adjustable master can lead to bad clutch problems too which could be part of the issue. Thanks for your help. Really appreciate it and I wish this car didn't become a nightmare for me. I've only owned it 2 months and have yet to drive it in perfect working condition. Frustrating.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,938
Likes: 65
From: Rochester Hills MI
sounds like torque tube bushings to me. How many miles are on the car? If the shop is so reputable they should have recommended them to be checked as it only adds maybe 30 mins to a clutch job to replace them.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 168
Likes: 5
From: Rochester NY
There is 56,000 miles on the car. I had a friend of mine drive the car and he had a hard time finding any issue with it. It is hard to spot unless you really know the car well. I don't know why they wouldn't do the bushings while under there. I am going to drive the car and see if it gets worse or something goes. I'd hate to end up with no transmission cause these guys keep blowing me off. But they are paying for it if my transmission blows up with this clutch acting up. I didn't realize having a new clutch put in these cars was so difficult and fussy. Seems to be a lot of variables involved here and unfortunately I'll probably never know what is wrong until someone pulls the driveline back out.