Hey folks, this forum has been great. I’ve been wrenching on cars for about 18 years now but have never pulled a motor so this is my first. Certainly not as experienced as many of you on here Done plenty of transmissions and clutch jobs though Anyway, I pulled my short block out the side and it actually came out. Of course it helped the heads were off, as I didn’t intend to pull the block originally. This all started as a replace the balancer project, then turns into a near frame up. My car is old and rusty so part of this project is also to POR15 the frame and replace other corroded parts

My experience with machine shops have been limited to getting flywheels and rotors turned, and Advanced Induction porting 243 heads.

I spent the good part of the evening cussing under my car as the bell housing had corrosion welded itself to the torque tube, but I eventually got it out. I plan to take off the starter, mounts, clutch and other stuff before going there. I’ve already talked to them but will call again since I’m about ready to bring it in.

I DO NOT plan on putting in a stroker, forged crank, bore etc, just refreshing the stock LS1 block. Since mine’s an early block it won’t handle gobs of boost nor be bored out anyway. It’s out of a running car that I've driven the past 14 years, so nothing catastrophic happened- just figured with 205k on the clock and the last blackstone report not looking too hot (high levels of iron and aluminum) it was time.

I plan to have the machine shop:
Hot tank everything
Clean and Check the deck for flatness
Change the cam bearings
Check (possibly change) the rings
Hone the cylinder walls
Possibly polish the bearings and journals
Hopefully- have them cut the clearance for the LS6 valley cover and the additional oil channel in the back

I did lots of reading on what to ask the machine shop but some of it was not LS1 specific. I read about asking the shop if they use a torque plate when checking flatness but on a street driven car that will not see much racing I’m not even sure this is worth asking.

My biggest questions-
when I take the block to the machine shop- what questions should I ask them?
What else should I do to prepare?
How far should I disassemble it on my own?
The machine shop said I can either bring it in as whole or take it apart myself, doesn’t really matter to them- though I’m sure having them take it apart will cost more.
Any other tips or things I should have the machine shop do while my block is there?

 

What do you mean you pulled it out of the side? You mean the top? Get the rods resized and run arp bolts while your in there.

 

Yeah I pulled out the motor out of the top but from the side (as seen in the pic) opposed to taking off the hood and front bumper and going straight on. There seemed to be some debate of how to get it out. Yes I realize getting it back in may be a challenge but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Re-reading my post I might have rambled on a bit. The main question I have is- how far should I disassemble the engine before I send it to the shop? I do not have a ring compressor or expander, etc. Just wasn't sure if I should dive that far into it. I do have dial calipers etc from rebuilding transmissions in the past (and I'll be pulling the drivetrain) but never doing an engine before I don't want to potentially screw up

Good call on the rod bolts- the early ones were weak- forgot to put that one in.

 

Jeez lol I didn't even see a car in the pic at first lol. I thought it was just a motor hanging from the picker!

Break it all the way down to the bare block. Itll take you all of 30-45 more minutes once you have it on the stand. I wouldn't worry about rings. Just let the maching shop worry about that once they do the hone. Once its broken down to the bare block you can carry the stuff piece by piece into the shop by your self including the block since itll be so light. OR
Call them first and ask how much they charge for taking it apart at their shop. If its not much and your not interested in looking at every piece of the motor to see the condition of it then let them do it all.

I pull my motor the same way. But I leave the bell housing on the TT. I def woulda pulled the hood though just to be safe.

 

Also you cant polish bearings. You replace them. If your not into labeling EVERYTHING correctly and keeping everything from each cylinder organized then let the Machine shop do the disassemble and reassemble. Taking it apart is a pretty easy. But labeling everything takes time. Then putting it back together takes a bit more time as you have to measure every thing and Tq everything to spec and triple check it.

 

just let them disassemble the short block.
As for shop questions
First ask have then done many LS1,2,3 motors if not walk away.
This block prep requires a little more care on cylinder prep.
I would have them assemble the new short block also.
New rings- total seal conventional with napier second ring.
New ARP connection rod bolts as previously mentioned.
New Clevite bearings for main and connection rods.
New coated cam bearings
New timing set
new oil pump
provide a cam of your chose.
Check your balancer if rubber is degraded or you have signs of separation replace it and let the install it.
Get a solid estimate-you may find that someone like Texas Speed can compete with a ready build short block.

You can replace the lifters.
Upgrade lifter trunions
Get the heads prepped, replace valve springs, seals
Resurface heads
use a cometic 0.040 head gasket
Get ARP head bolts -you cannot reuse the old GM bolts.

 

I would tear it down and reassemble yourself and save the money on that portion, its not hard. Preassembly is tedious but if you if you do it yourself you know it will be done right. I wrote up a checklist in a thread of mine you could use to help you be **** regarding reassembling. When reassembling/disassembling just make sure you don't let the rod ends scrape the cylinder wall while you pull the pistons out, other than that there really isn't any risk to damaging parts while putting it together assuming you do so correctly. Also keep the rod caps together with the rods they came from and label where everything came from. You can borrow piston ring pliers, piston ring compressor, blind hole puller and 3 arm pulley pulle from autozone. The last two tools listed will allow you to pull the pilot bearing and the crank sprocket.

In addition to your machine work on the engine I would get the crank polished, replace rings, rod and main bearins, oil pump, timing chain, lifters and cam, ARP head/flywheel bolts. As for how far to upgrade depends on your goals, if you're not planning on doing much more than bolt ons and don't rev high I would forgo over building it. I went with mildy upgraded bearings and rings over stock and retained stock main and rod bolts. Thus far it held up to 730whp/601wtq though I don't take RPMs higher than 6k ever and don't race my car around in general. Knock on wood through 1500 miles after rebuild I have no oil consumption, nothing alarming has appeared in my numerous oil changes and the car is running very well.

I bought this book and read cover to cover when rebuilding. Great resource to have.

 

Great points! I mistyped- yeah I meant polish the crank journals..


Yup- got the new lifters. Trunnions- do you mean the rocker trunnions? I bought new rockers and have the comp cams upgrade kit but haven't put them in. I had another thread going that the newer trunnions are upgraded already and the kit isn't necessary but that's another discussion altogether. I have the Cometic .040 head gasket and the ARP head studs . The heads were massaged by Advanced Induction already so they're sitting in my dining room for the moment the local machine shop will only be doing the block.

Wonderful advice. Yup, I read through and printed off the check list.

I've yanked the pilot bearing before- from doing the clutch jobs- and plan to go into the transmission to replace some synchos (did that before about 10 years ago). Good call on the autozone rental.

I already have new pump, chain, lifters, cam (Brian Tooley stage 1). I'll definitely get the crank polished, replace the rings, rod and main bearings as well. Any thoughts on the rod bolts (since mine is early LS1). I drive like you do- I don't race or rev the F out of it. I've grown past the driving like an idiot on the street. Just want a reliable, decently powered vehicle that's noticably stronger than the stock LS1 I was used to, that I can daily drive for another 200k+ miles

I've talked to the shop on the phone but will stop by today after work, then get the engine on my stand and start pulling the clutch, starter, oil pan....

 

SOME THINGS that need to be addressed and no one has mentioned or explained:

1. ENGINE BALANCE. Your engine is internally balanced from the factory.. IF you have a NM6/MN12 transmission the engine gets an additional HOT BALANCE PROCEDURE to reduce NVH that will be felt in the drive train of a manual trans C5/C6 and YES C7.
The fly wheel needs to be matched marked to the crank and replaced in the exact same orientation when reassembled. IF,,, you get NEW flywheel, you need to MATCH BALANCE it to the OLD OEM FLYWHEEL.
If the machine shop does something to CHANGE the internal balance, the engine needs to be rebalanced to GM Specs. You will be ON YOUR OWN as to the HOT BALANCE.

2. The connecting rod caps on each rod are FRACTURED ROD caps. The rods are manufactured as one WHOLE rod, machined and the large rod cap IS BROKEN off the main rod. When the rod is bolted back together, it will be very difficult if almost impossible to see the parting line on the rod when its bolted back together. They can ONLY BE REASSEMBLED as they were disassembled. If they are mixed up or reassembled 180 deg out, your screwed!

3. I AGREE! ARP CONNECTING ROD BOLTS for a bullet proof lower end.

4. I use ARP Head studs. The ARP Head Bolts are a far cry better than the OEM one time use Torque to Yield head bolts BUT, the ARP head studs are worlds better than OEM or ARP bolts.. I've see tooo many people STRIP out the block head bolt holes using head bolts, even properly torqueing them in place with a proper torque wrench.

5. Have the shop CLEAN the head bolt holes using a cleaning tap,,, NOT A THREAD TAP!! There IS a difference!!! REMEMBER, the head bolt holes are BLIND HOLES. If there is any liquid or dirt inside the holes, it can and will damage the block.

6. If your block isn't factory drilled to accept and use a C5 timing chain dampener, have it drilled and use one.


7. Im sure there are MORE but my mind is blank right now..


Some things that I would purchase NEW or UP-GRADE

1. Install COMP CAMS Rocker Trunions
2. NEW Lifter Buckets
3. Examine the rocker trunion stands. The strip of aluminum that the rocker trunions mount on. They can and do wear and cause the rocker to sit crooked on the valve.
4. Melling Oil pump
5. Valve guide and valve guide seals
6. ARP DAMPENER BOLT
7 Aftermarket POWERBOND or ATI dampener
8 Pin the dampener to the crank
9. NEW LIFTERS and the CORRECT length pushrods. Get the bigger dia pushrods!
10. Im sure there are MORE but my mind is blank right now..



Bill

 

Also if you reassemble it yourself make for damn sure you LOCTITE the cam gear AND cam retainer plate bolts. I had to rebuild my Freshly rebuilt motor one time (literaly only drove it 500miles) because the Bolts backed out of the cam and a lifter mushroomed in its bore and broke the roller on my cam, sending metal everywhere in the motor.

There are little things you learn as you go sometimes with these motors if you don't know them. Im pretty sure the FSM doesn't mention using Loctite on those bolts at all. Just an FYI

 

Here's a thread regarding the early ls1 rod bolts where it is is discussed. The general consensus is that if you rev high replace the rod bolts if you don't you'll be fine....

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rod-bolts.html

I think for your application you would be fine to reuse your stock rod bolts but it depends on budget. If you go with upgraded rod bolts you have to resize rods in addition to buying the bolts, not a huge costs but it adds up.

Obviously if money is no object than go big with anything. While rebuilding my motor I found out I was having a baby, which is due any day now. That changed my build from going forged stroker rotating assembly to replace only what is necessary to get the job done.

Didn't cheese out anywhere but also didn't go over the top on anything either. The challenge being a newb trying to accomplish this first time project is to discern between the advice of members who have built motors with a far deeper pockets than myself and those who cheese out and are setting themselves up for a second rebuild.

There are enough stories on forums of shops rebuilding motors and installing a bearing backwards, not preassembling and having poor tolerances for journal clearnaces, or pinching the oil pump o ring causing catastrophic failures that I wasn't worried about doing the tear down and assembly myself. There was no way anyone was going to be more thorough than myself on reassembling even if it took me a month to do. You know the saying no one loves your stuff like you will My .02, Good luck man.

 

That sucks. I don't recall reading how did you pull your motor last time, did you pull the steering rack or just lower the cradle with it attached?

Edit:I used motor oil on the main/rod bolts but loctite everywhere else in terms of bolts going to the motor. On the side bolts for the mains and front and rear covers I put a dab of high temp gasket under the bolt heads.

 

Muy importante.....

 

Rod bolts I have ARP200's so they use the ARP lube (It was $10 a rod to resize them so figure in around $80-$100 if you want new bolts OP). But the Cam bolts absolutely need Loctite on them and not motor oil. Next time your in there make sure to clean the cam bolts with brake cleaner and a qtip and then put Loctite on them instead of oil.

I pull mine out the top from the side every time also. I just put a Jack and a piece of wood under the two header bolts on the Tq tube and support it there leaving the whole tq tube together (I think someone pushed your clutch in while your motor was out and that made it a pain to put back on the Tq tube maybe). I didn't drop the cradle with the Rack on though as I was dropping it by myself at like 2am and I wanted the least amount of weight coming down when I dropped it.

Now if I can just get time to work on it this weekend and figure out why it wont start ill be A ok lol.

 

Totally meant to say I used motor oil on main/rod bolts, not on the cam bolts.

 

Yup- I already have the Fidanza, changed the friction surface once. Fortunately I lucked out on the balance. It's smooth up to redline.

Great to know.

OK sounds good. Looks like there's different versions, I'll research this.


Yup, got them.

Haha yup.. debating if I should buy the thread chase kit and DIY or just let the machine shop do it. Looks like it's kind of an odd larger size and the kit's kinda pricey. Or I could do it the cut the old-bolt method.

Yup, it is and I already have it- from the last batch of custom made ones

I have new rockers- and the kit. Have not pressed in the kit yet, there was some debate on pressing out perfectly good new trunnions.

Got them.

Good call- I was just going to reuse my old ones.

I got an LS7 pump.

Yup, got all the above. Got the 3/8" clearance cut for the larger pushrods while heads were at AI. Will measure after I get everything together for length.

 

That debate on the Rockers is all good until you find a few needle bearings in your oil.

 

I agree with Johnny WW. The APR 2000 rod bolts are a good choice in your application.

 

OK sounds good, they're not too expensive- is it these
Part 234-6301 with the Cracked Cap Design? Is that the same as the Fractured Rod Cap Bill references below?


My OEM ones lasted 205k miles with no needle bearings in the oil. The main dillema I have is

1) Press out the trunnions of my old 205k mile rockers or
2) Put in the brand new rockers (updated design) I bought without pressing out the trunnions
3) Press out the trunnions of the brand new rockers I bought (this one makes the least sense to me)

I have the parts to do any of the 3. Just haven't done it yet as there's lots of other things going on

 

That was a great read. I too, am walking the fine line of a "good value and worth it" upgrade, or a "not worth the $ or effort for the non-racing application" upgrade. I've done so much of the "it's only another $100" and "if I'm this far into it.. might as well...."

This project started out as mainly repairing:
1) Harmonic balancer wobble
2) AC compressor leaks
3) Power steering rack/pump leaks

in one weekend

Turns into- Heads and Cam project

Which turned into- Pull the short block out and refresh, now pull the driveline out, crack open tranny, replace synchros, rear brake lines, POR15 the frame... etc etc 6 months later and growing