2004 CE Convertible 106k Miles No Mods
Was getting CEL with Code P0135 - Heated O2 Sensor Bank 1 Sensor 1 Failure.

Replaced all 4 O2 Sensors. Got codes
P0153 Slow response Bank 2 Sensor 1
p1133 HO2S Insufficient Switching Bank 1 Sensor 1
p1153 HO2S Insufficient Switching Bank 2 Sensor 1
p1154 HO2S Transition Time Ratio Bank 2 Sensor 1

But no CEL

This is O2 Sensor output on approx 20 mile drive starting cold in my driveway. Through some stop and go city. Then about 10 min of highway around 50mph. Then slow through small town. Hiway again for about 10 min. One brief hard acceleration. Then back through city and into my driveway

Seemed to run good except at one stop light seemed a bit rough idle.

Any thoughts or advise?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA0B...ature=youtu.be

 

You Tube Vid would not work.

Have you FULLY checked the O2 Sensor HEATER CIRCUIT?????????????????????

Good OXYSEN FUSE voltage and a good Chassis GROUND?????? The O2 Sensor heaters MUST work for proper O2 sensor operation!!
.
Feel the body of each O2 sensor when the Ignition key is in ON Engine OFF after about 5 Min.

The sensor base should be VERY warm to the touch!!

You also need to get a DC Volt Meter and read the test Points on top of the OXYSEN Fuse Read the Fuse Test points to chassis ground with ignition ON. Should see FULL BATTERY VOLTAGE.

BC

 

[QUOTE=Bill Curlee;1596020155]You Tube Vid would not work.
/QUOTE]

Thanks Bill, Youtube blocked because I had Bob Dylan playing on stereo ... I will re record in silence.

 

[quote=UM Rebel;1596020180]See if this vid works any better

 

I recorded how my O2 sensor behaved after startup and they start switching after 40-50 sec after I have started the engine .
After this periode the O2 sensor voltages switch between approx. 0.1-0.9 volts .
This switching seems to be missing on your engine maybe due the missing voltages as Bill Curlee mentions.

 

I'd like ANYBODYS opinion on something... I am getting the P1153 sensor 1 bank 2 passenger side forward 02 sensor. I have a 2002 Corvette with 82 K miles and I installed long tubes and am running with 4 cats installed and yes all 4 02s are in their proper location. I sent the headers to Jet Hot and had them ceramic coated inside and out before installing them because I was aware that the 02s that far away from the head would NOT allow them to reach 600 + degrees. And ceramic coating inside and out keeps the heat inside the header tubes. I can touch the headers after only about 3 minuets after shutting the engine off at the collector and at the factory 02 area.

I have ZERO exhaust leaks. I cleaned all Chassis GROUND locations and even installed 2 additional aftermarket strap grounds for good measure. And I used zero anti seize on the threads. I also switched all 4 02s with band new ones TWICE! And the P1153 keeps turning on after 2 or 3 days. So this time I switched the forward passenger 02 with the forward driver 02 and I did NOT even bother cleaning it just installed them and 3 days later I get P1153 AGAIN! So I know for a FACT it is NOT the 02s. The ONLY thing I can think of is the fact that they are place way too far south of the head and are simply NOT getting HOT enough!


Once it starts it runs perfect, once it is at running temp I can shut it off and it restarts perfect. I replaced the plugs because they were black from being too rich and it started perfect in the AM for about 1 day (autolite double platinums) I pulled a couple of them and they look like they just came out of the box clean as new after about 225 miles on them. I used a laser thermometer and cold tested the temperature/on board heaters on the upstream o2s I got 155 on the left bank and only 150 on the right bank and ONLY 44 on the two down stream sensors do you know what the internal heater temp should reach on their own? Also I am aware that on the long tube header the upstream 02s are much further down streamI had to extend the wires about 18 inches with solder and heat shrink.

So my other question is do ANY OF YOU have any knowledge on relocating the 02s by welding up a bung in the #7 and #8 primary tube further up closer to the head (factory location on the old cast manifolds ) So I don't have to use wire extensions and so I can avoid spending a bunch of money on the other option (tuning) and STILL have the 02s too far down stream with the code simply shut off?

I also realize that if I do the relocation I will NOT be getting the average reading from all 4 cylinder off each head but only a reading off the single #7 and #8 primary tubes. What would that hurt? How big is the possibility of burning a hole on my pistons from an undetected lean condition from not sampling from all 4 cylinders per side only the two #7 and #8?

 

What a lot of members do with the LT's is move the rear O2's to the front (harness adapter required) and tune out the rears. With the O2's moved further back in the exhaust stream yes you'll have issues ...I wouldn't run LT's on mine even if they were gold plated..no thanks !!...good luck !!

 

If it were ME, I would test the heater circuit to see if it is getting proper voltage ad the correct CURRENT! Use a high wattage DC Lamp and see if the lamp lights brightly when connected to the heater wires on EACH O2 Sensor connector. Find the OXYSEN Fuse and on top of the fuse are two test points. Turn on the ignition and measure BOTH test points to chassie ground. You SHOULD see battery voltage on those fuse test points. IF,,,,,,,,,,, the voltage at that fuse is much lower than the actual battery voltage, you have a bad connection inside the ignition switch.

The ground for that circuit is at engine ground point G-105. That has a braded ground wire that connects G-105 to the chassis ground G-103 on the top of the frame below the brake booster You also have to examine Splice Pack (SP122) which is tapped to the main wire harness behind the battery. That SP can get corroded due to battery acid.

The CURRENT is much more important. If you have DIM LAMP when you test them, THATS YOUR ISSUE!!

Bill

 

 

THANKS!!

 

C5 Diag Yes I am sorry I ever spent money on the LTs hind sight is 2020 I would NOT recommend them to anybody. But now I am heavily invested in them at $3,300 I want to install a nice choppy cam and That requires LTs and a high stall torque converter.

I already know about installing a set of rear (down stream/after cat 02s up front) I have looked into that and everyone who has done this said it made zero difference. Also as I said I used a laser thermometer and cold tested the temperature/on board heaters on the up stream o2s I got 155 on the left bank and only 150 on the right bank and ONLY 44 on the two down stream sensors.

The down stream after cat sensors on board heaters do NOT heat up even close to what the up stream 02s do. So if I did as you suggest I will likely get not only a P1153 but a P1133 as well. So I am going to pull the LTs back off and install 02 bungs in the number 7 and 8 primary tubes in the factory stock location that should work. If it doesn't work anybody want to buy a nice set of slightly used headers?

This is NOT a problem with the 4 02 sensors it is ONLY a problem with their location. And I do NOT want to have some tuner shut off the fault code. That is like placing black electric tape over the CEL. It does NOT fix the problem.

The oxygen sensor must be hot (about 600 degrees or higher) before it will start to generate a voltage signal, so many oxygen sensor have a small heating element inside to help them reach operating temperature more quickly. Think of it like this the closer you hold your hand over the stove the more it burns. And if you hold your hand as you say "3 feet further away" your hand is NOT going to get burned.

I agree with you when you say "The reason they are Illegal in most states is because of the further aft mounted front 02's they do not read correctly when the front 02's are now as much as 3' back---They do not heat up correctly and read wrong----They always read RICH !! There is no 100% fix for this however what most tuners do is this."

From what I have read they read lean and the computer over corrects causing a rich condition but my 2002 C5 does not appear to be running rich but lean right now judging by how clean the spark plugs look, (NOT black at all).

As I said. "I replaced the plugs because they were black from being too rich and it started perfect in the AM for about 1 day (autolite double platinums) I pulled a couple of them and they look like they just came out of the box clean as new after about 225 miles on them. So it is no longer running rich but lean."

As you say. "when the front 02's are now as much as 3' back" So the solution is to move them 2 and a half feet closer to the cylinder head/exhaust port. The original cast iron manifolds are just tubes the LTs are just tubes their is no "mechanical or programing" changes to the car the ONLY difference is 02 sensor placement/location. I do NOT see ANY reason why relocating them will not solve the problem 100%

Only thing is I will NOT be getting the average reading from all 4 cylinders off each head but only a reading off the single #7 and #8 primary tubes. What would that hurt? How big is the possibility of burning a hole on my pistons from an undetected lean condition from not sampling from all 4 cylinders per side only the two #7 and #8? And wouldn't a lean running fuel injector set off a code?

Some guy at LG headers said "by doing this the computer would not detect an unmonitored lean running cylinder and I could burn a hole in one of the unmonitored cylinders."

Bassani Long Tube Headers keep the 02s in the factory locations but are only monitoring 2 cylinders on each bank and I have NEVER heard of any problems from people running Bassani LTs except for poor quality welds they leak. Please see the 2 photos of Bassani headers below to see the 02 locations and best of all no wire extensions are needed wit these headers. But Bassani no longer manufactures them.

 

 

 

 

Your tuner simply shut off the prompt that would have triggered the P1153 Code. Trust me, your CEL would be on right now it you hadn't done the tune. like I said I do NOT want to have some tuner shut off the fault code. That is like placing black electric tape over the CEL. It does NOT fix the problem.

 

In all my years that has been the only way to solve it. You have to tune them out. I don't know anybody that has gotten away with header install and no tune to solve the O2 sensor issue codes on any LS1 motor.

 

I am going to pull the LTs back off and install 02 bungs in the number 7 and 8 primary tubes in the factory stock location that should work. It will just cost me about $8.00 for the 2 bungs and a couple hours of my time and save me $400 - $500 for a tune that I really don't need. There is NOTHING wrong with my wiring or 02s. Tuning them off seems wrong in oh so many ways. Long tubes are just tubes a little longer that the factory cast iron manifolds. Only difference is the bung location, too far south for them to sufficiently heat up and function as the factory intended.

 

You will still need a tune for having headers. High possibility of running RICH with no tune and headers.

 

No, I won't "still need a tune" why would I? Think about it the ONLY reason for a tune is because the cars 02 sensors are NOT getting hot enough and they are NOT reading the air flow properly. It is because they are place nearly 2.5 feet further away than the factory designed them to be at ONLY 1 foot away from the exhaust port. So that's what is causing the P1153 code and it is this false reading that is causing the computer to run the car rich.

Moving the 02 sensors higher back in the same position they were placed at the factory they should get hot enough 600 or so degrees and function properly. Now if you can tell me why I am wrong I am listening.

Headers are just tubes. Whether they are made of cast iron or stainless steel has no bearing mechanically, but 02s not getting hot enough DOES have a technological impact on whether they send the proper information to the computer.

 

Hey have at it then...