Well I went out to Kennedale today to see what my new times would be since my cam install...here are the numbers from my last run...before the cam (1/8 mile):

Run 1:
Reaction: 1.113
60ft: 2.229
330ft: 5.874
1/8 ET: 8.817
1/8 MPH: 83.34

Run 2:
Reaction: .561
60ft: 2.223
330ft: 5.836
1/8 ET: 8.781
1/8 MPH: 82.88


Here's what I ran today....approx 30-45rwhp later...

Run 1:
Reaction: .947
60ft: 2.166
330ft: 5.837
1/8 ET: 8.765
1/8 MPH :84.24

Run 2:
Reaction: .431
60ft: 2.407
330ft: 8.268
1/8 ET: 14.422
1/8 MPH: 38.43

Run 3:
Reaction: .673
60ft: 2.190
330ft: 5.981
1/8 ET: 9.004
1/8 MPH: 81.47

Run 4:
Reaction: .923
60ft: 2.429
330ft: 6.255
1/8 ET: 9.317
1/8 MPH: 80.29

Run 5:
Reaction: 1.041
60ft: 2.223
330ft: 6.082
1/8 ET: 9.157
1/8 MPH: 80.01

I was expecting something in the low 8's but was real surprised when I saw I did the same as the numbers I got before my cam. It started off ok, but kept getting worse and worse...the last two runs were after I dropped the pressure in my tires, but it was still sucking. The camaro I went there to race pulled 8.5's all night though, no problems what so ever...that 14 time you see was because of a little fish tailing action I had about half way down the track...oops...hey I got a tip for yall...make sure you burn off the water from your tires before you stage. :lol:

Well to say the least I was pissed because I was really disappointed. Temps outside were 65 degrees, saw no reason why I did that bad. The guy I was racing said that he thought my timing might be messed up or my PCM or something because he thought I should be doing a lot better.

Well now I have come to the allmighty forum to ask you guys what you think my problem is and what I can do about it...aside from chaning my gears, getting a torque converter and so on and so on. What I want to know is why my times didn't improve for shhhhhhhtttt since my last run...anybody have any ideas???

(BTW I have a '98 A4 w/ 3.15's, intake, exhaust, underdrive pulley, GMAFS, TR 220/114 cam, LS1 Edit, Nitto 555's...I was hooking up pretty good towards the end too...no wheel spin or nothing...go figure.)


[Modified by los7883, 10:33 PM 10/9/2002]

 

With intake, headers, and exhaust on stock sized street tires, I ran an 8.5 at 88mph at Kennedale, about 3 weeks ago. I would say something is wrong with your tuning once you put the cam on. You should definitely be running quicker than that. Where did you get your cam installed?

Keep us all informed!!

 

Something is definately amiss :confused: Your 60' times are not consistent and need help. Fix that and your ET will come dawn a lot. Maybe you need a stall to get in the power band faster. There was a blue Z out there running 7.9's at 88mph. The Lightning sled was running 8.25 @ 84.5 :D Have you dyno'ed to se where you are at? I am in Arlington maybe we can meet up some time and see what your ride is doing :seeya

 

I had my cam installed at Speedtek in Hurst...LGM did my tuning. I also feel something is wrong...I asked everybody what my times should be approx and they said that after the cam it should be around 8.1 or so...but 9's???? Come on now...something's not right. When I had the tuning done Jason told me that my timing was only going up to 19 degrees or something like that and should have been going up to 28 or so (correct me if i'm wrong but I don't know squat about timing). Could this be the issue, that it is still cutting out early? We/I thought it was cutting out that early because my engine temps were sky high...but it was 65 degrees out and my temps were right at 200. What do I do now...

I know getting a higher stall will help out my times and I plan on getting that done one of these days...but I should still be running a lot lower with what I have now...there were a couple of Lightnings out there tonight running 8.2's MAN that's fast compared to my 9's... :D

What should I do? Have the tuning checked out again?

 

It definitely sounds like something is not right....Wish I could help!

Good luck! :cheers:

 

Put your stock maf back on and get to the dyno. Check for knock and make sure your air/fuel is good. The guys over at Speedworks are great, I recomend you go there. You should be in the 8.0-8.4 range with your setup. Your mph is horrible, a stock vette will go 84+ in the 1/8. 19 degrees timing is too low.


[Modified by FRC21, 6:19 AM 10/10/2002]

 

28 degrees of timing is healthy. 19 is pretty low, there's definitely some knock retard or something going on. Take it back to Speedtek or LGM or somewhere and get some dyno pulls with wideband. Get your '60 down and your times will drop dramatically. My freaking 8.5 was with a 2.1-2.2 '60, I seem to make good power based on my trap speed, you should be making a bit more mph too, but get your '60 down and get your car tuned and you'll be happy with the result.


What cam are you running BTW?

 

That's what I thought too but I guess what ever is wrong didn't correct itself. I am taking it back to LGM on the 21st for some other work, hopefully they can take a look at it again, they are pretty good at making things right if it is actually the tuning that is messing it up. 8.0 would have made me very happy...hell even 8.1-8.2 but running 8.7-9.4's man that's nasty. Can someone explain timing to me...what exactly does it do/mean?

 

This is a post that the guy that did my tuning made after everything was done:

We finished up the tuning. We nailed everything down with the tuning and even with the 109 degree temerature in the shop today we managed to pick up a solid 15RWHP on our dyno. The basline of the car was around 315RWHP and we got it up to 330RWHP pulling only 19 degress of timing. The high temperatures was robbing us 7 degrees of timing plus contributed to 1-3 degrees of knock retard. With the current tuning in normal weather (or on the highway) I expect the car to be putting out in 340-345 range.

What does this mean? Is this where my problem is then? The cam I'm running is a TR 220/220 .561/.561 114 LSA. At the time the tuning was done the engine temps were running around 240 degrees, today they were around 200 so I would assume that the engine would be making it's full potential...any ideas why?




[Modified by los7883, 12:43 AM 10/10/2002]

 

I would get it up on a wideband dyno either at 21st Century or Speetek, Speedworks, somewhere and see what it's doing. OR better yet, find someone with Autotap and BEG them to do some logging while you're cruising around on the highway. When I was at Fastech, Sean dynoed my car and it was getting a fair bit of KR, so I found a guy to Autotap my car on the open road and there was zero KR bombing down the highway.

I wouldn't stress out too much. How does the car feel? Does it feel pretty strong? How does it sound? There might be a chance that the car was running in closed loop mode and just backing everything off. What was your coolant temps and oil temps? Not that any of that makes a HUGE difference.

Find Kewlbrz, I'm pretty much talking out of my a**, Shawn (Kewlbrz) will be able to point you in the right direction. He's the local and forum guru on tuning and autotap and such. Good luck!!

 

Another thought, were you just making each run back to back? If so, you might have 'heatsoated' your car and it pulled everything back, hence your lower mph and ET. Just a random thought....

 

Carlos I would be happy to take a look through the tuning for you again, the last time it was on the dyno the heat was killing us - ~110 degrees ambient if I recall.

What extra work were you having done - headers, LS6 intake? Just let me know the when and where and I will do whatever it takes to make sure you are happy with it.

Thanks,
Jeremy

LG Motorsports
"Where money buys speed."



[Modified by Godspeed, 1:33 AM 10/10/2002]

 

First thing would be to get another dyno and see if youy have any knock retard and check your rwhp and torque. Your 60' times are really slow and you should be hitting around 86mph at least. Something does not seem right with your dyno in high temp in the shop. I hope you have some sticky tires for traction. I want to follow this thread, so keep us advised.





[Modified by wallstAL, 11:49 PM 10/9/2002]

 

Hmm, will have to read over your mods again. But if you paid "market value" for tuning, cam and install. Then saw 15rwhp gain I would be :cry :cry Ed Wright gains at least 20rwhp by tuning alone. I had a hypertech pp3 in my old 98 vette and he got 20 more rwhp from tuning to my bolt ons! I would expect at least 30 rwhp with cam and tuning minimum:yesnod:. I hear a lot of compliments on LG hope it gets faster.
I just looked back and yours is a 98 too! 98's were way fat from the factory and could gain 20hp by tuning alone. Even with the heat the spread should be the there just lower numbers.


[Modified by Quick Brick, 8:05 AM 10/10/2002]

 

By all means get your tuning checked, but a stock converter and 3.15s is not a good combo for the cam you installed. In an A4 the gears and converter you are running should be taked into account when you are selecting a cam. According to Cartek you can gain HP. on the dyno and run slower if the wrong cam is selected for your gear and converter combo.


98 A4
Powerloaded
Donaldson Blackwing
PT2400
3.42 Gears

 

Jeremy..yea the temps were pretty bad when we were there. I was talking all kinds of smack to this Z28 and both of us "knew" I would be handing his azz to him...but when I was running friggin' 9's I felt stupid...I'm dropping my car off on the 21st around 12:00...it may be there a couple of days so if you can check it out again I would appreciate it. I'm not getting any mods done unfortunately but getting a little warranty work done.

Well if anyone feels like donating some 3.42's or 3.73's to my cause or a TC feel free to IM me... :D :yesnod: :D :yesnod:

Oh and the tires were sticking pretty good...little chirp in first and second but no wheel spin at all in the end...gotta be something else...

 

Two words, torque converter.
I just ran some blowing the tires away 8.11-8.15s @ 89mph (1.88-1.95 60') at crossville TN - 1600' above sea level on a 80 degree foggy night (DA was over 3200ft).

I normally see 27-29 degrees of timing except around 4800 where it dips to 25-26. If it was 100 degrees out you will lose some timing from the high IAT. You need to get out with atap or something and see whats going on there. But if you are even fairly serious about ETs you need a higher stall converter..

 

I agree, I will definately need a TC to bring my numbers down big time...but what I am worried about is that I'm only getting up to 19 degrees of timing...if that isn't the case then I have no idea what's bringing me down...my oil/coolant temps were right around 200 degrees which is normal for my car...it was 65 degrees outside which is a big difference compared to the 110 degrees I was in when the car was tuned...I don't know... :confused:

 

Its possible you have some KR and got knocked into the lower octane timing table, its possible you did have more timing at the track when it was cooler, its possible something else is wrong, misfire etc. Unforunately with these cars you need some kind of scan tool to see whats going on - otherwise its just a guess. You really need to find someone to borrow atap or just buy it if you plan on doing more mods. If it was really hot on the dyno and the IAT was really up there I could believe 19 degrees of timing.

Wouldnt it be nice to see this on a 1/8 mile pass instad of guessing :cheers:

 

Carlos I will definetly check it out, I know there is more power in your car.

I have seen low timing and knock retard caused by things such as under drive pulleys, header leaks, or bad O2 sensors. I'm sure the guys will get everything straightened out of it, and then I will tune it again.

:yesnod: