Have been thinking about installing a set of headers onto my '04 Vert, M6 ; have done a couple of searches but have not found answers to some of my questions:
1. can they be installed in a home garage using jack stands?
2. is a tune needed? If so, will a mail order tune be sufficient?

and of course what are the opinions of which ones to get?

Just wanted to add that I removed the OEM H-pipe and mufflers very shortly after getting this C5 almost two years ago and replaced with a Borla X-pipe and Z06 mufflers.

Thanks

 

Biggest question is what is your budget? I have installed a no name brand header from eBay. And have been more than happy with them. There are so many choices, what are you looking to get out of adding the headers. I installed my headers in my home garage on jack stands. And if you are eliminating the rear O2 sensors then yes a tune will be needed, and in most instances a mail order tune. Will get rid of your check engine light. Hope that helps feel free to pm me if u have questions or ask them hear. This is the thread I detailed my install in
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...han-300-a.html

 

I remember reading about your ebay headers and how well they have held-up...had forgotten about them.
Budget??...well I did not want to empty my bank account, but expected to spend $1000 for everything. I can re-use my X-midpipe so just need the headers and whatever between the headers and the X-midpipe. I will be moving to a non-emissions controlled area soon, so I could eliminate the cats and O2s.

I will have to re-read your ebay header thread.

Thanks for the reply.

 

I recently installed Texas Speed LT's and catted x pipe, I'm very happy with them, very nice ss headers and good price. I did it all myself in my shop on jack stands, both headers go in from the top. The hardest part was DR side you have to disconnect the stering shaft at the rack and on the PS side I had to remove the starter, leave the headers loose and then put it back on while the header is hanging loose, a bit difficult. I got a mail order tune which seems fine. I did get codes for the front 02's heater being slow so I installed a new set of 04 rear 02's in the front bung with an adapter I ordered from the internet. I'm really happy with the change, nice bump in power and sound. My C5 is an 01 6 spd. The Texas Speed headers don't come w the air fittings so I just deleted the whole system, so much easier to get to plugs now.

 

I’m not sure if I can post this or not, but speed engineering out of Fresno,Ca has a nice set of headers.

 

I did my Kooks Headers and Catted Midpipe on jackstands.. No problem..
Did Not have to touch steering shaft
It did help to have starter off (which I was replacing anyway..)
If you are going to leave the stock H style midpipe, I don't see a big reason to
headers to start with. That is where a lot of restriction is... The aftermarket uses
an X style merge that is located further forward and have mandrel bends (the good Ones)
A mail order tune should do what you want

 

Booger789: have read through your install thread twice now, think I am sold on these.

 

Each brand will have its own "quirks" with installation - but you can do it with jack stands and a floor jack for sure. Just make sure you lift the car up far enough so you can maneuver the headers around enough to slip them in if you're loading in from the bottom, which is typical for the driver's side and from the top on the passenger side.

I used long tube B&B's and x-pipe to match my PRT cat-back system I already had put in (I didn't want to weld anything - just bolt on!). The steering shaft didn't need to be removed, but I did have to undo the driver side engine mount nut on the bottom to jack up the engine a bit and trim about 1/2" off of a flange on the manual transmission bell housing.

On the passenger side, chances are you'll need to remove the starter and re-install it. Make sure you tighten the headers in place LAST after you've re-installed the starter and (in some cases) the manual bellhousing inspection plate.

If you tighten the headers before everything else is snugged into place, you're going to end up loosening the headers all over again to get everything right...

Good luck!


Jeff

 

Good to read that sitting on jack stands will work. I did install Hooker Headers and Sidepipes onto my '81 Corvette a few years back, so do have that experience...actually did that twice as I re-installed the stock system prior to going to the paint shop and then re-installed the Hookers after paint.

Thanks for all the hints regarding installation....have made notes.

I am actually leaning towards the Speed Engineering headers as not liking the resonators in the set that Booger789 used....prefer the straight pipe and also not having to use two sections of standard exhaust piping.

Still researching....................

 

Do a google search what ever brand you pick.
Why?
I remeber reading someones install they had to cut part of the oil pan and raise the engine up to get them to fit.
If you are okay with that then you should be good

 

I have run two sets of headers on my car and did dyno pulls on them back to back. If you can find a set of Tri-Y stainless headers that would be my choice. QTP used to make them, might find a used set. Pfadt also made them, not sure if they are still available.

 

I went the way I could afford at the time. thats the beauty of a vette so many choices, and if you have questions no matter what you go with, shoot me a pm i may or may not be able to help, but i have been to the mountain and back installing my exhaust, you can get it done right in your own garage and save yourself some cash. the biggest thing is getting a pair that fits that will go in without to much headache. the set i got, fit well, I did have some tight moments and thought how in the hell, but a little persuasion and some time and all was well in Header land.

 

When you install your Headers -something to consider...... There is lots of info on the forum about wires getting burned near the Headers, so this is what I did...




You can get the heat/ tape from local hardware stores....Do both sides..





Good luck mike v

 

I had a wiring and heat problem on my '81 as well, still have some hi-temp jackets for the wiring. I also had to replace the OEM starter as it got heat soaked and then would not function until cooled-down.
Is the OEM starter also going to be a problem with headers?

Been to busy lately to do anymore header research, hopefully soon.

Thanks to all and keep those comments coming.....

 

I live in the country in SW Va. So not a lot of stop and go in traffic-I guess it keeps a lot of air moving through it.

There are a lot of good headers systems out there, some $$ pricey. I went with the

HINSON Motorsports, Inc
4675 Appaloosa Drive
Birmingham, AL 35210
205-909-9402
www.HINSONMotorsports.com
Good performance and sound with just a tune, no other performance stuff.






I also put my rear o2s up front using "Racetronix wire plug for rear to front adaptor..
sales@racetronix.com 905-477-7014
LS1-O2 - Rear to front O2 adapter

While I was putting it all in I sent the PCM off to Chuck CoW mail tunes
www.CORVETTES-of-WESTCHESTER.com
He has some great Deals if your a veteran..

Something to think about while you have your starter/oil filter out.......

CLEANING AND REPLACING CLUTCH FLUID-INCREASING AIR FLOW
However, what is stated here will help extend the life of the clutch by keeping the clutch cooler and the fluid cleaner for much longer than any other method. This is primarily meant for those of us with stock clutches but will apply to all the aftermarket clutches as well. We have heard of many people that have put clutches in their vehicle when it may not have been necessary or many feel it is a mandatory upgrade with more power.

On our shop car we have a heads and cam C6 z06 with 585RWHP and 535RWTQ and 82K miles STOCK clutch from new and the car is driven like it is stolen, daily. The car has some drag racing time on it at the track but it is mostly thrashed on the street and road coursed as much as time and the budget allow. We have NEVER had the pedal stick to the floor and it takes about 5K miles for the fluid to change color let alone turn dark.

Drag racing does play havoc on a clutch but hopefully this will get those that are apprehensive out there to beat the tar out of their cars like they should be, it’s good for them!! It has been our experience that the 2 worst GM V8 vehicles out there for having issues with clutches are the GTO and the F-bodies. I would like to point out one thing that they have in common: They do not have an "exhaust" for clutch debris and heat. The back of the bell housing does not have vents like the Corvette and especially the C6. The 2 C6 vents are about 2" by 3/4" just beneath the clutch and in the back of the bell housing whereas the C5 was about 1/3 the size. The late model Camaro has a large vent roughly equivalent to the C6 size.

I mention all of this as an important backdrop that we will come back to shortly and I will try to tie it all together.

Even though this is a LONG write up IN SHORT it will only help even if you aren't have any issues.

I tried to illustrate with my kindergarten drawing ability Check out the clutch airflow pic at the bottom.

-Bleed the clutch line
For many of us are familiar with Ranger's articles about using a turkey baster to draw out dirty fluid and then replenish with clean the fluid.

This helps, however it is not the solution for the larger issue, you will still continue to get filth in the clutch and reservoir.

Please understand I am extremely grateful for his contributions to the corvette community. Ranger sent the fluid to a lab to analyze what the dark substance was in the fluid and established that it was clutch material. Without this important piece of info we would have much less knowledge about this system. THANK YOU RANGER!!

As you USE the clutch you consume it and where does the debris go? As the clutch material is flung around within the bell housing the material gets past a seal into the slave cylinder and then the hydraulic system the fluid is contaminated and begins to darken. If allowed to worsen you eventually will have a sticking pedal and lose hydraulics. In most cases not permanent but often at the most inopportune times. It is best to address this as early as possible so you do not have permanent issues with the stock slave.

We are not sure but it seems likely that damage may be caused to the slave cylinder by the clutch particles embedding between the bore and piston of the slave. Catch it before its too late. Naturally a clutch should give off the most debris upon break-in.

The factory system moves a very small amount of fluid in a line from the reservoir to the slave, fore and aft. Naturally the most contaminants would be at the point of entry into the system, not just the reservoir two feet away. Bleeding the system like a brake or any other hydraulic system until the fluid is clear would rejuvenate and minimalize the contaminants.

A remote bleeder is nice and convenient but not all of us are willing or able to put a remote bleeder in or quite honestly I don’t know if you can even get one installed without tearing the torque tube and clutch out. So what can we do that is not too labor intensive and wont cost much? Or How can we optimize this system and make it last? Whether its the basic STOCK clutch setup or a rather expensive aftermarket clutch this should only help. We are going to tell you how we do it in the car without too much labor.

The easiest way that we have found is to pull the intake manifold for the C5 and C6 Corvettes. We have ported hundreds of manifolds so we have become proficient at pulling intake manifolds. (Total time to clean head ports and put it back on about 45min.) This will allow one to lay in and across the engine bay. With your head right at the firewall with a 9mm combination wrench and a light just barely have enough room to see the port, pop off the rubber cap (leave it off) and open it while someone else is depressing the clutch pedal. Bleed it just like a brake system, one person (A) holds pedal, the other (B) opens the port till fluid pours out and then closes, (A) pumps pedal till firm again and then repeat till fluid is clear, 3-12 cycles. Remember to check the reservoir! Refill it so you do not get any air in the line. Earlier F bodies and GTOs may be accessible from under the car and may not require pulling the intake manifold.

-Open front of the bell housing by removing the plastic panels.
There are 2 black plastic panels that cover the front side of the bell housing. The driver side has a small 3” panel held in place by 1-10mm bolt. The passenger side panel surrounds where the starter engages the flywheel. Disconnect battery; remove the 2- 15mm bolts and push the starter forward enough to pull out plastic panel. Before you reinstall the starter you can benefit from this wide open space. Check out the next step, Compressed air.

Total time will be between 10min and 1hr depending on stock exhaust manifold or headers and adjoining piping and space restraints and if on a lift or on the ground.

I would imagine that the panels were put in there to keep things from getting into the bell housing but the irony could be what was meant to protect the clutch hurt the longevity of it. The Driver side is shielded by the oil filter and the starter on the passenger side. It is quite amazing the amount of air moved by the clutch at idle from the “exhaust” ports of the bell housing, imagine what it would be in CFM@155mph 7k rpm. Ever heard of Smokey Yunicks flywheel supercharger?

Opening the front side of the bell housing is a crucial part of keeping things cleaner and cooler within the clutch. By allowing the front side of the bell housing to ingest airflow we now have a cross flow of air coming in and out of the bell housing and the faster we go the more volume of air through, like a radiator. With greater volume of high velocity air the clutch debris is expelled much more quickly rather than staying in the bell housing longer like the stock stagnant closed-front-entry (or it doesn’t exit but through a tiny hole like earlier Fbodies and GTOs). On our C6Z we even “ported” the “exhaust” side of the bell housing to even more aid in getting the airflow out. Furthermore, after about 7K miles we again cleaned it there was very little debris in the clutch and bell housing area and the fluid was in great shape too.
We feel that this is conclusive that it does keep the clutch much cleaner and cooler. What happens to a radiator when you block its airflow?

One more thing to mention about the GTOs and Fbodies: It has been our experience that the Heat and the clutch debris can very quickly ruin your fun. A few years back we had a ‘05 80K mile GTO with about 390RWHP and bolton’s, stock clutch. The vehicle was at a road course event and as the vehicle heated up it would lose hydraulics and not even be able to execute a gear shift by the end of a lap. We would have to draw out the DIRTY fluid and replace it every lap. (It is unknown how large a role the heat played it is difficult to test independently. When both sides of the bell housing are open it seems that it is no longer an issue.) Now looking back upon those experiences I know we could have resolved or at least greatly extended the proper functioning of the clutch. Since GTOs and earlier Fbodies do not have “exhausts” on their bell housings I would like to machine a few passages in there and see what happens......Now we have done the aforementioned methods to said vehicles and it has helped rather significantly but they NEED is the “exhaust” side opened up. When you take a look at the bigger picture you can see that it needs both clean high speed air in and high speed air out, just like an engine. Having only one side of it is merely half the battle.

-Use Compressed air and brake clean to blow out bell housing
Now that the panels are off you can get in there with a compressed air probe and blow out all the crevices of the clutch. We have been in there for over 10 minutes still finding more areas that blow out clouds or clutch debris. When you think you’ve blown it out enough keeping going. Then rotate the motor over with a breaker bar and do it again till there is no more clutch debris coming out. Next take 2-3 cans of brake clean and spray it all through anywhere you can. Wear a respirator and have some fans going in a well ventilated area; this is not good stuff to breathe in. Reassemble it and go beat the **** out of it.

We have a customer with a 30K mi 600RWHP C6Z that began to have some clutch slippage. We opened up the front side blew out and cleaned out the bell housing and has yet to have the problem again. One thing to consider is the contact surface of the disc and flywheel. If there is a boatload of dust in there, the surface has been compromised. The grip integrity of a clean surface has changed. Now it doesn't lay all the dust out evenly either so there is an even better chance that you will develop hot spots on the flywheel if one area slips on its own dust and another area grabs. Slowly we began to see how one thing leans on another, heat and dust, dust and heat.




I]drill some holes around the plastic covers[/I]

Looks like a lot, but hope it helps with what your looking to do.
mike v

 

Carefully route your O2 wires, I would heat wrap them. I also used P clamps attached to the car by the trans tunnel heat shield bolts to hold wires up and away from the headers. Headers vary in placement of the O2s which will change how you can route things.

 

I also used tie-straps to hold the wires back out of the way.

 

Wow....very good information here!

Still not sure on which headers to get. The Hinson ones look nice with the ceramic coating...had that on my '81 Hooker headers/sidepipes.

AS I am looking at the different headers...which are all supposed to be long tube, I see quite a variation in length with the ebay ones with resonators appearing to be the longest.

Trying to research this more but need to see installed pictures to get an idea of where the header collector ends-up at.

 

If you decide to go with a set of header, I would highly recommend getting them and the X-pipe ceramic coated. Also keep in mind that a mail order tune no matter how good, can never be as exact as a tune done on a dyno using wide ban O2 sensor. Its all a matter of time, money, convenience and just how good do you want/need the tune to be.

 

Since I already have a Borla X-midpipe it would be really nice to find just a set of Borla headers....so far have not been able to find just headers. Anyone know where I might find just the headers at?

Regarding ceramic coating....yeah....it is nice to have and keep under hood temps lower, especially here in the desert southwest.

Regarding the mail order tune.....again agree....just do not know of any tuners in my area, will definitely look again should I actually get headers.