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Hey guys, I haven't posted much on the forum since joining 2 years ago, most things go through facebook now, but I'm just not finding the info i need. Did a cam swap(BTR stgIV), valve springs, pushrods, powerbond underdrive pulley, ported 243's, and i already have full bolt ons, tick master, and MGW shifter. The car runs amazing, it made 424/446. Problem is, the car can easily make 450whp with these simple mods, however, second pull on the dyno, at 5200rpms, the clutch just gives out. I will post the dyno sheet so you can see that it is on a constant ramp up, but the clutch just wont hold.
Now, when this happens, the clutch pedal gets super stiff and comes to the top. It's always acted kind of weird after the install of the tick, kind of like there's pressure building up under the stress of a WOT pull, and the engagement of the clutch goes to the very bottom, right above the floor.
There are no clutch smells, any slipping other than this time, and it slipped twice on the dyno both right at 5200rpm. I can put the car in 5th or 6th on the hwy and floor it, and it doesn't slip one bit.
Any help would be much appreciated, sorry for the long post, just have never posted here and am a service advisor for toyota, and am all too familiar that when diagnosing an issue with a vehicle, the more info, the better.
Thanks alot ahead of time, and let me know if you need any more info.
Sadly, this is an extremely common issue, particularly after you add HP.
The best theory I've heard is that the clutch fluid is boiling. Regardless, mine did the same thing. Pedal would get hard and then drop to the floor.
Keeping the clutch fluid clean helps, but isn't a fix. I installed a Tick clutch master cylinder. Nice unit, but didn't fix the problem. I installed a LPE clutch pedal return spring (to pull the pedal back up), but didn't fix the problem.
I think the only real solution is a new clutch with more holding capacity. I just installed a Monster stage 2 clutch with lightweight flywheel. Always do a new slave cylinder, and I HIGHLY recommend the Tick remote speed bleeder for the slave cylinder. (makes bleeding the slave a breeze).
Sadly, this is an extremely common issue, particularly after you add HP.
The best theory I've heard is that the clutch fluid is boiling. Regardless, mine did the same thing. Pedal would get hard and then drop to the floor.
Keeping the clutch fluid clean helps, but isn't a fix. I installed a Tick clutch master cylinder. Nice unit, but didn't fix the problem. I installed a LPE clutch pedal return spring (to pull the pedal back up), but didn't fix the problem.
I think the only real solution is a new clutch with more holding capacity. I just installed a Monster stage 2 clutch with lightweight flywheel. Always do a new slave cylinder, and I HIGHLY recommend the Tick remote speed bleeder for the slave cylinder. (makes bleeding the slave a breeze).
Gotcha! I appreciate this feed back. So all in all, I am in fact in need of a clutch? Does your new clutch hold as should be expected and work flawlessly now?
I have an 02 ZO6 and did all the mods to get to the 450 RWHP Mark.
AS SOON as we tuned enough to produce more power, the clutch **** it self. STUCK to the floor after each full power attempt.
Here is what I think is happening:
The OEM Pressure plate has damaged release fingers. Those fingers no longer sit level with the remainder of the release fingers and keep constant pressure/contact on the throwout bearing/slave cylinder.
If its working correctly, there should be a very small air gap between the fingers and the throwout brg.
I fixed mine by installing a duel disk clutch, tick master new pilot brg, throwout brg and slave cylinder.
If you have a TICK Master, you need to be SURE that it isn't improperly adjusted.
What procedure did you use to adjust it????
Try this:
Jack up the rear of the car (wheels off the ground)
Collapse the adjustment rod so that you know the master is not applying any force to the slave cyl.
With the rod collapsed, when you depress the clutch, the rear wheels will continue to DRIVE.
Increase the length of the adjustment rod until when you depress the clutch, the rear wheels no longer being DRIVEN by the engine. The wheels may want to rotate a little but you should be able to easily stop rotation by hand.
Once you reach the point that they are NO LONGER BEING DRIVEN, you will be really close on the clutch peddle rod length adjustment.
I had to increase the length about 1-11/2 additional turns to prevent the transmission from grinding gears when the car was cold.
See if that makes a difference.
If not, you most likely need a new heavy duty clutch and all the support stuff...
I have an 02 ZO6 and did all the mods to get to the 450 RWHP Mark.
AS SOON as we tuned enough to produce more power, the clutch **** it self. STUCK to the floor after each full power attempt.
Here is what I think is happening:
The OEM Pressure plate has damaged release fingers. Those fingers no longer sit level with the remainder of the release fingers and keep constant pressure/contact on the throwout bearing/slave cylinder.
If its working correctly, there should be a very small air gap between the fingers and the throwout brg.
I fixed mine by installing a duel disk clutch, tick master new pilot brg, throwout brg and slave cylinder.
If you have a TICK Master, you need to be SURE that it isn't improperly adjusted.
What procedure did you use to adjust it????
Try this:
Jack up the rear of the car (wheels off the ground)
Collapse the adjustment rod so that you know the master is not applying any force to the slave cyl.
With the rod collapsed, when you depress the clutch, the rear wheels will continue to DRIVE.
Increase the length of the adjustment rod until when you depress the clutch, the rear wheels no longer being DRIVEN by the engine. The wheels may want to rotate a little but you should be able to easily stop rotation by hand.
Once you reach the point that they are NO LONGER BEING DRIVEN, you will be really close on the clutch peddle rod length adjustment.
I had to increase the length about 1-11/2 additional turns to prevent the transmission from grinding gears when the car was cold.
See if that makes a difference.
If not, you most likely need a new heavy duty clutch and all the support stuff...
Bill
Honestly Bill,
I paid a guy to install it, because I didn't want to mess with it. It, and the MGW shifter were my first 2 mods on the vehicle. I will pass this info to my buddy that has done all of the work on the car, and keep my fingers crossed like crazy. This was a huge bummer because the car has been down for about 3 months for the cam/heads work, and has full potential to meet my goal of 450whp. It would really suck if the car had to go down again for a clutch. Lol. After cam/head work, i'd love to be able to do some hwy pulls, but I guess that will have to wait, for now.
I have an 02 ZO6 and did all the mods to get to the 450 RWHP Mark.
AS SOON as we tuned enough to produce more power, the clutch **** it self. STUCK to the floor after each full power attempt.
Bill
This is exactly what happened to me on Saturday! It was a pain in the ***. Lol. Except, my pedal gets extremely stiff, then sticks to the floor, the engagement point changes drastically.
Not what I want to hear when my car is getting the full heads cam setup installed. Car has a stock clutch but only 3k miles on it so I was hoping itd hold for a little while. My 05 ctsv had the same clutch and it held cam and nitrous for 25k miles and that car weighed 700lbs more. Guess we'll see if it makes it through the dyno tune.
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C5 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
the stock clutch sucks when you add power and actually try to race it, I think a new clutch is the route you will end up taking... I don't think the clutch fluid is boiling because it's just to short of a time frame for it to heat up like that, now if you were out racing all day nonstop then yeah ok but one dyno pull??... I don't think so... I went down the same road years ago, I tried new/expensive fluid and a tick master and it got a little better but never was fixed until I went with an aftermarket clutch... I highly advise to stay away from another stock clutch or c6z clutch for that matter, spend some money on a proven aftermarket clutch and give yourself some room to grow when you get the itch to add more power
the stock clutch sucks when you add power and actually try to race it, I think a new clutch is the route you will end up taking... I don't think the clutch fluid is boiling because it's just to short of a time frame for it to heat up like that, now if you were out racing all day nonstop then yeah ok but one dyno pull??... I don't think so... I went down the same road years ago, I tried new/expensive fluid and a tick master and it got a little better but never was fixed until I went with an aftermarket clutch... I highly advise to stay away from another stock clutch or c6z clutch for that matter, spend some money on a proven aftermarket clutch and give yourself some room to grow when you get the itch to add more power
I wanted to purchase a clutch that I would NOT have to worry about so, I went with a SPEC Dual disk. Its been 100% flawless since the install.
Way over kill but,,,,,,,,, it wont slip and destroy its self under hard use..
the stock clutch sucks when you add power and actually try to race it, I think a new clutch is the route you will end up taking... I don't think the clutch fluid is boiling because it's just to short of a time frame for it to heat up like that, now if you were out racing all day nonstop then yeah ok but one dyno pull??... I don't think so... I went down the same road years ago, I tried new/expensive fluid and a tick master and it got a little better but never was fixed until I went with an aftermarket clutch... I highly advise to stay away from another stock clutch or c6z clutch for that matter, spend some money on a proven aftermarket clutch and give yourself some room to grow when you get the itch to add more power
Yeah, this sucks to hear, but, kinda the feeling I have deep down inside. Just put a few thousand into the car with all the work that was just done, to put another few thousand in it to be able to enjoy the work that was done. Lol any recommendations? Don’t wanna spend $1800 on a dual disk clutch honestly
I wanted to purchase a clutch that I would NOT have to worry about so, I went with a SPEC Dual disk. Its been 100% flawless since the install.
Way over kill but,,,,,,,,, it wont slip and destroy its self under hard use..
BC
If clutch does definitely become the answer after performing this master cylinder adjustment and clutch bleed, what is a good middle ground for not spending $1800 on a clutch, but also not replacing it with a stocker?
I really wanted the Monster LT1S twin disc ($1109 w/LW flywheel and slave) but funds ran a little short. So I went with the Monster stage 2, single disc with light weight flywheel and new slave ($790). Seems to get good reviews. I haven't fired mine up yet though. (was a full engine rebuild, etc)
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C5 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
if you ever added more power how far do you think you will go?... a good quality single disc will easily hold you power and give you some room to grow but if you think you would go over 600 like with nitrous or forced induction then you might as well spend a little more now and go with a twin disc... you can get a quality twin disc for less than $1800, the mcleod rst/rxt are both popular and good choices and personally I have an act twin that I got for around $1k and it has been easily holding ~850hp/700tq and shifts like butter at 7k... act makes good clutches but they aren't very popular in the LS world, I have been very pleased with mine though... the particular model I have is the T2S-G01 but they have many different setups to cater to your needs... if anything they are worth a look... the $1800 price tag I bet you are looking at a mantic twin??... they are nice and good clutches but I bet at least a couple hundred bucks is paying for the fancy suitcase they are sent in
if you ever added more power how far do you think you will go?... a good quality single disc will easily hold you power and give you some room to grow but if you think you would go over 600 like with nitrous or forced induction then you might as well spend a little more now and go with a twin disc... you can get a quality twin disc for less than $1800, the mcleod rst/rxt are both popular and good choices and personally I have an act twin that I got for around $1k and it has been easily holding ~850hp/700tq and shifts like butter at 7k... act makes good clutches but they aren't very popular in the LS world, I have been very pleased with mine though... the particular model I have is the T2S-G01 but they have many different setups to cater to your needs... if anything they are worth a look... the $1800 price tag I bet you are looking at a mantic twin??... they are nice and good clutches but I bet at least a couple hundred bucks is paying for the fancy suitcase they are sent in
Well, the car should be right at 450whp and made 446rwtq, so with that being said, I will enjoy it as is for a while. I've always wanted a fun N/A v8 car to blast around in and experience. If i were to get bored with it in a year or so, I could see 150 shot or something like that.
I have been doing a lot of reading on the monster LT1-S, and am really intrigued with it. I have dealt with clutches in the past on other vehicles, and it's one of the most frustrating things to have an issue with to me. Lol. I'm thinking if I do go with that clutch, it would do everything I need it to, and then some. Clutches are one of those things that i can justify spending a couple hundred extra on to avoid having to do it again down the road, or anytime in the near future that is.
IF and WHEN you decide to replace the clutch with an AFTERMARKET unit,, PLEASE revisit this post or contact us for some very SPECIFIC things that you should or need to do to insure that you DO NOT have any issues after the install.
Specifically clutch pressure plate/flywheel balancing, checking and setting the required air gap and TIC MASTER CYL adjustment (if you install a TIC master cyl)
Well, I am just in the process of gathering info, so I can formulate a plot. If you want to just go ahead and shoot the info, I am building a portfolio for the clutch job with all the info I need so I can pass it on to my buddy that does all of the work on the car. Feel free, if you have time. I am learning a lot already, so thanks for that. I already have the tick installed btw.
Well, I am just in the process of gathering info, so I can formulate a plot. If you want to just go ahead and shoot the info, I am building a portfolio for the clutch job with all the info I need so I can pass it on to my buddy that does all of the work on the car. Feel free, if you have time. I am learning a lot already, so thanks for that. I already have the tick installed btw.
I will add the rest of the info but,, since you have the TICK MASTER already, did you do this yet?????????????????????????
"What procedure did you use to adjust it????
Try this:
Jack up the rear of the car (wheels off the ground)
Collapse the adjustment rod so that you know the master is not applying any force to the slave cyl.
With the rod collapsed, when you depress the clutch, the rear wheels will continue to DRIVE.
Increase the length of the adjustment rod until when you depress the clutch, the rear wheels no longer being DRIVEN by the engine. The wheels may want to rotate a little but you should be able to easily stop rotation by hand.
Once you reach the point that they are NO LONGER BEING DRIVEN, you will be really close on the clutch peddle rod length adjustment.
I had to increase the length about 1-11/2 additional turns to prevent the transmission from grinding gears when the car was cold.
I will add the rest of the info but,, since you have the TICK MASTER already, did you do this yet?????????????????????????
"What procedure did you use to adjust it????
Try this:
Jack up the rear of the car (wheels off the ground)
Collapse the adjustment rod so that you know the master is not applying any force to the slave cyl.
With the rod collapsed, when you depress the clutch, the rear wheels will continue to DRIVE.
Increase the length of the adjustment rod until when you depress the clutch, the rear wheels no longer being DRIVEN by the engine. The wheels may want to rotate a little but you should be able to easily stop rotation by hand.
Once you reach the point that they are NO LONGER BEING DRIVEN, you will be really close on the clutch peddle rod length adjustment.
I had to increase the length about 1-11/2 additional turns to prevent the transmission from grinding gears when the car was cold.
See if that makes a difference."
Not yet! been working a lot and its raining its *** off in TX. Just trying to prepare for the worst.
02-20-2018, 03:30 PM
Bizarre Clutch Issues
This is exactly what happened to me on Saturday! It was a pain in the ***. Lol. Except, my pedal gets extremely stiff, then sticks to the floor, the engagement point changes drastically.
