Moved to C5 Tech.

 

I've never heard of anything like that, to my understanding it's not as easy to do flex fuel on the c5 as it is on the c6... I also don't think you will match the mpg of e85 to pump gas, it takes about 30% more ethanol to produce the same energy as gas so that's why the mileage goes down... you will also need large enough injectors and fuel pump(s) to account for the added consumption... I can tell you if you are using stock injectors and fuel pump it isn't going to support much power at all on e85

 

flex fuel isn't plug and play on the C5. you can't match fuel economy of gasoline on ethanol. you physically needs more ethanol to accomplish the same job. That being said, for the price of 93, for me, it's still cheaper to run E85 vs 93.
figure out what you end goal is. you may be bit ahead of yourself.

 

I THINK your talking about the PROFLEX commander kit. I just purchased one and should be getting it in the mail tommorow. Can’t wait !
Tune for pump gas and let the proflex do the rest when you run e85. That’s what im gonna do

 

https://www.advancedfueldynamics.com...-corvette-ls1/

 

Not only are the C5's; fuel pumps, regulator, lines, injectors not big enough to handle the extra flow required with E85, you will also need a flex fuel sensor and a wideband O2 sensor(s) to properly run E85. Why? Because E85 is not always 85% ethanol - the percent of ethanol in the fuel mixture varies by the season and can be as low as 40% in the winter months. You will also need a stronger ignition system with higher output ignition coils and a completely new ignition timing and dwell map for E85 and the software needs to be reading the % of ethanol in the fuel and making trim functions to those maps accordingly. Not to mention that the all fuel system components in the C5 are not designed to be compatible with a fuel that has a higher than 10-15% entantol content. E85 Fuel dilution of the oil also means you have to use SN rated synthetic long life oil and oil filters with synthetic media and still change them more often than you would if you ran pump gas.

If you are building a race car or high powered big boost street car from the ground up and designing it to run on E85, that is one thing. Hoping to switch a street car over to E85 because the price just happens to be lower than 91 or 93 octane pump gas is just a "pipe dream".

I own a couple factory flex fuel vehicles (one requires 91-93 octane premium fuel, while the other runs on 87 octane regular) and it make absolutely no economic sense whatsoever to run either one of them on E85 vs. pump gas - in terms of $/mile driven. Just remember that there is no such thing as a free lunch and if all those promises sound too good to be true, then that's exactly what they are. As always YMMV.

 

I would be curious to see pics of this kit when you get it... there are some things I don't like about it, mainly the fuel line/setup... the flex sensor would be best in the return line, I know that isn't possible on 99-04 cars since there is no return but on 97-98 like the car in their youtube video they could have easily plumbed the sensor into the return line instead of the feed line... at stock or lightly modded power levels it may be ok but when you start making bigger power it becomes a restriction and that's the main reasoning for it being in the return line... my second gripe is the fuel line they supply, it looks like a generic fuel hose with a worm clamp... big no no in my opinion, I would not want an unprotected line held on with a worm clamp that sees nearly 60psi of fuel pressure... you can get -an conversion fittings that will snap onto the rails and the line at the firewall and make your own hose but that costs extra money... I'm also curious what that box does that their harness plugs into... I'm guessing it somehow manipulates the injectors to make them spray more fuel... I can't see it being able to tap into the pcm and command more fuel or add timing which is a big part of how people make power on e85... e85 is much more resistant to detonation than pump gas so you can add more boost and timing and still be safe... in my opinion it seems like these kits are marketed towards people that like the sound of flex fuel but don't particularly know a whole lot about it or really don't have a need for it... assuming you have the right fuel system already you can convert to flex with a pcm swap, some wiring, and a retune of course

now aside from that kit and just about ethanol in general, you can run it in any injector and it will technically work... when you hear of injectors being described as ethanol compatible that means the internal parts of the injector are able to withstand ethanol, which is corrosive by nature... if you were to let ethanol sit in your stock injectors over time it can rust or break down those internal parts which could lead to one or more of them being clogged up and not being able to pass fuel anymore and that is the last thing you want to happen when making a wot pull... you will run lean and possibly lose the motor and if you have no wideband you wouldn't have any kind of warning until it's too late... the high dollar name brand ethanol injectors typically have stainless internals so you can leave ethanol in them for an extended period of time and have no issues... same thing applies to fuel pumps as far as ethanol compatibility, that is why it isn't a good idea to use the stock injectors/pump

I agree with JHrinsin, always check the ethanol content so you know for sure what you are putting in the tank... the flex sensors will not always tell you the truth and here's why, they don't actually measure the ethanol content but rather the gas content and assume the rest is ethanol and that assumed number is what will show up on your gauge... sometimes that's fine but ethanol is known to absorb water so if you happened to buy a watered down batch of e85 or it absorbed a lot of water through your fuel system the ethanol % on the gauge would actually go up!... you can run straight water through the sensor and it will read 100%... you can use a graduated cylinder or buy a quickfuel tester and easily measure the content of the ethanol that you are putting in your car... it will vary by region but in my area it is labeled to be no less than 70% year round... the place I buy mine at has never tested under 85% even in the winter and in the summer it is usually in the mid to high 90's %

sorry for the long post and hopefully someone can get a bit of info out of it

 

 

methanol will absorb water as well, a lot of guys will mix water and methanol and spray that to reduce intake air temps and provide a little extra octane... either fuel can only absorb whatever water is available in it's environment, so basically if it is in a sealed fuel system or a sealed container it can only absorb so much... what mods do you have to your car?... on a stock to lightly modded car it probably isn't really worth the hassle in my opinion... e85 is cheaper but you will lose mileage so in the end it about evens out with regular pump gas... I am curious to see how that kit works and what it is actually doing to compensate when e85 is added, hopefully 96darkhorse will chime back in

 

I've been looking at this kit too, but I need bigger injectors before I even think about it. Just in for the info.

 

 

in my opinion I don't think it's worth it for your mods... if you were forced induction or had a very aggressive high compression n/a setup that you needed the extra octane then e85 would make more sense... 30+whp also seems like a stretch unless the car is boosted, maybe 10hp at best seems more believable... on a bone stock car like the one they show on their site I'd have to call bs on the gains they claim unless they also tuned the car and got more aggressive with the timing (which I don't think their kit can do on it's own)

 

Found this review. Not use if I agree with all the claims. But I thought it was a good read




Advanced Fuel Dynamics PROFLEX Commander Review

The primary reason I reached out to AFD was because I was intrigued by their claim that the kit works with any tune (and because I’m already running E30 on my F30 335i). I’ll admit I was a bit skeptical at how knowledgeable they were to make a claim like that.

I had the opportunity to speak with Ryan, William, and Dan from AFD and immediately felt relieved within the first 5 minutes of our hour long call. These guys are very experienced, knowledgeable, and technical about tuning and E85. Their “Ethanol Experts” have experience in tuning race cars in the motorsport world such as high horsepower evolutions/speed boats/open seaters and fully understand the science behind ethanol and all of its properties.

I have tested this kit stacked on top of our B-Spec Tune out for 4 months to provide a full, comprehensive review. In this time, I have autocrossed, tracked, and drove long distances in order to really put the kit through its paces. Here is how I would rate the product in price, performance, and quality.

Price

The Advanced Fuel Dynamics PROFLEX Commander Flex Fuel Kit runs for $800 retail. Considering the hp/$, this kit is very reasonably priced. The only reason this did not receive full points is because it is not technically a “steal.” Those who truly want to go E85 will find that the benefits of the kit will justify the cost, and in-time, the cost-savings of running E85 will add up. Take advantage of the limited time discount code at the end of this post!

Quality

The material that the commander unit, sensor, and harnesses are high quality materials. They were very similar to OEM grade. The fittings were perfect and require no trimming or modifications.

In terms of reliability of the product, I have had no issues related to the kit at all in the 2,000 miles I have driven it. I have run many mixes between E30-almost full E85 from mostly Shell and Chevron. Octane levels are all different at each station and could sometimes have “bad gas”, but the PROFLEX kit takes care of that for me by automatically adjusting to the ethanol levels. Their mobile app to monitor what ethanol mixture is in the tank is extremely accurate and useful for me to keep track of how much and what’s in there.

Cold start has also been perfect every time in the last few months. AFD really did their homework as cars are known to have a hard time starting up with E85. The idle is consistent and stable with no hiccups or hesitations in power delivery which would indicate fuel pump or injector issues.

Performance

The power gains are addicting. On the track/autocross, the car felt great throughout the entire day with no cooling issues. The MPG was predictably worse meaning I had to refuel early but the performance it’s definitely worth it. The E85 helped with the B-Spec Tune timing targets, and I could feel the car meeting the targets even under high heat. This told me that the cooling effects of E85 was working and higher octane meant that timing was more consistent at high rpms. I could tell when accelerating out of turns and on the straightaways that the car pulled much harder and smoother than on 91 octane.

My Conclusion

In short: the AFD PROFLEX Commander kit makes power both safely and reliably. The kit retails for $800 and in our opinion, is well worth every penny. And while the performance gains are amazing, lets not forget about the ease of use and the overall improved driving experience.

Flexibility: E85 is not as abundant as regular 91 octane, which can be a hassle if you have to run strictly E85. One of the greatest benefits of AFD’s PROFLEX kit is that it will adjust for any amount of E85 and 91 octane. That way, you can still fill up with normal 91 octane whenever you are running low. When you have E85 near you again, just fill up, and reap the benefits. Pro-tip: if your local E85 station is far from you, buy some fuel jugs and use those to stock up on E85 at home to save some trips.

Smells: Everyone knows – going catless means smells. Bad smells. However, E85 burns cleaner and the smell is hardly noticeable. This may be useful for some people that are scared of running catless in the city.

MPG and Price: As mentioned before, the fuel system demands more ethanol so it makes sense that MPG will decrease (roughly 18.37% for me). On 91 octane, I averaged 20.2 mpg mixed hwy/city and 16.8 mpg mixed hwy/city on an E70-E85 blend.

Price of E85 is about $2.39/gallon vs $3.79/gallon for Premium 91 at the time of writing. MPG is lower, but I’m actually going more miles per dollar with E85! If you don’t mind making more trips to the gas station, then E85 will technically help your wallet. See below for the cost comparison.Fuel Tank (16.648 Gallons)MPG$/GallonPrice (Full Tank)Miles (Full Tank)Miles/$1$50 Fuel SpendE8516.82.3939.79279.697.03351.4691 Octane20.23.7963.1336.295.33266.49Prior to installing the PROFLEX, we had tossed around the idea of developing an E85 tune. Once I tested the kit, I realized that there was no need for one. The flexibility offered by the kit is unparalleled compared to a flash tune and does not make sense from a customer standpoint to restrict yourself with an E85 tune when this alternative is available. If you are looking to go E85, we would really advise customers to use the money towards purchasing the AFD PROFLEX Commander Flex Fuel Kit instead.

The guys at Advanced Fuel Dynamics are truly knowledgeable about the fuel industry and are very helpful. If you are interested in this product and have questions about it, I’d recommend contacting them directly. Don’t forget to mention this review too! For more information visit Advanced Fuel Dynamic’s product page: PROFLEX Commander for BMW E46 M3 and their FAQ Guide.

Advanced Fuel Dynamics is graciously offering an exclusive Buildjournal discount of 10% off their E46 M3 E85 PROFLEX Commander until May 31st 2018. Use coupon code: buildjournal

E85 power without the E85 hassle

• RELIABILITY - 10/10
• PERFORMANCE - 10/10
• PRICE - 8/10

 

one of the biggest benefits of e85 is being able to add more timing due to the increased octane levels, I want someone at this company to explain how they are accomplishing that just by plugging into the fuel injectors?... the only thing I can think of is maybe this unit pulses the injectors for longer periods of time according to ethanol content so basically you are only getting the benefits of the fuel and not the full benefit by adding timing to the tune and this also assumes you have enough fuel pump, remember it requires more ethanol to produce the same energy as pump gas so if your car is modded and you are close to needing a bigger pump and add this kit with e85 then you might all of a sudden run out of fuel and find yourself in a bigger predicament... I don't see how their box can make full tune adjustments on the fly by itself and override the pcm, I could be totally wrong but they need to do a better job of explaining how it works and if in fact this little unit somehow miraculously tunes on it's own then tuners better watch out

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it does. It has no means of tweaking the timing or anything else as far as I can tell.

 

 

One of the main problems with running e85 in the C5 is the PCM is not large enough to handle the demands of the system. Remember, the computers in the C5 were basically 16 bit architecture, the C6 was 32 bit and could handle the information (wideband included) more efficiently. The C7 (64 bit) even more so.