Starts Then Dies Immediately
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 800
Likes: 45
From: San Diego CA
Starts Then Dies Immediately
I have a 2000 C5 with 28k miles, bought it in December 2017. The first week I had the car, the battery died after it sat for about a week. I started throwing the trickle charger on it and the battery lasted about 5 months before it finally **** the bed. One thing I would notice is after connecting the battery, the car would start and immediately die on the first try, then run fine after. The car has a new battery since 2 months ago and i also keep it on the trickle charger. Sometimes it does the start and die thing.
Yesterday it did this 4 times until it was able to stay running. I have read so many threads in the past 12hrs on this issue. It covers VATS, fuel pumps, BCM, ECU etc. I do remember when I replaced the battery a couple of months ago I got the "remove key for 10 seconds" message. Never saw that again since battery replacement though.
How do I know if I have the column lock issue repaired? I have also read something about bad key chips. I know there are several threads on this, just want to see if anything new has popped up in 2018 to solve this issue.
Yesterday it did this 4 times until it was able to stay running. I have read so many threads in the past 12hrs on this issue. It covers VATS, fuel pumps, BCM, ECU etc. I do remember when I replaced the battery a couple of months ago I got the "remove key for 10 seconds" message. Never saw that again since battery replacement though.
How do I know if I have the column lock issue repaired? I have also read something about bad key chips. I know there are several threads on this, just want to see if anything new has popped up in 2018 to solve this issue.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,488
Likes: 1,743
From: Knoxville Tn
Does it die before you put the car in gear?
Have you pulled the codes?
If so, post them here.
If not there, are several post here on the forum showing you how, do it then get back to us.
Have you pulled the codes?
If so, post them here.
If not there, are several post here on the forum showing you how, do it then get back to us.
Last edited by Phanni; Aug 27, 2018 at 11:47 AM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 800
Likes: 45
From: San Diego CA
I apologize, the car in an FRC which is a manual trans. I don't touch anything but the ignition. I start it and it immediately dies. Stays on for like one second. I'll try pulling codes today when I get home. Thank you all!
Last edited by EVLGTO; Aug 27, 2018 at 12:35 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 800
Likes: 45
From: San Diego CA
OK with a manual trans when there is NO KEY in the ignition does the column lock or can it be turned with some effort (due to no power steering with engine OFF).
If the column can be turned then either some sort of column lock bypass (CLB or LMC5) has been installed or the GM version 04006C of the recall service has been done to the car.
You can check easily for an LMC5 by looking in the passenger footwell near the BCM (large silver box) for a device that looks like this:
http://www.complianceparts.com
If there is no LMC5 than looking for a CLB involves more effort than it is worth as you need to drop the drivers side knee bolster and look for the CLB module.
Down sides of not having some type of column lock bypass is that there is a distinct possibility of getting stranded by the GM Column Lock FUBAR. If the column still locks you could end up stranded by the column remaining locked even after successfully starting the car because the voltage to operate the column lock system was not high enough to do so yet the voltage was NOT low enough to prevent the car from starting. Electronics relies on minimum voltage levels to function while the starter relies on minimum current levels.
Additionally if the column still locks (or even if it no longer locks) with NO KEY in the ignition the GM Column Lock Recall Service may have been done to the car and part of GM's CYA for the column lock system was to enable a 2mph fuel shut off if the BCM thinks the column is locked when it should be unlocked. This is to prevent an inattentive driver from trying to drive the car with a locked column. Sounds like a great idea except that the implementation sucks. It is now possible to become stranded by the fuel shutoff even if the column is NOT LOCKED. The BCM which controls the column lock system has no physical way to determine if the column is locked or not so it relies on a sequence of commands and responses to try to keep track of the columns "sate" BCM issuse a command such as LOCK and expects a response (Completed) from the lock motor to know the command was recognized and acted on. BUT it is possible for electronic components between the BCM and the lock motor to fail such that either the command or the response was never seen by the end points. This causes the BCM to get out of logical sync with the columns actual condition. The result is that the BCM can cause the 2mph fuel shutoff to be enabled and the driver to become stranded. OK if its in your driveway but what if it is hundreds of miles from home.
Long story short, if your car does NOT have an LMC5 installed I suggest that you order one and install it. While you are installing it do the "brown wire mod" explained on page 2 of the install instructions while you are there. If you don't chances are you will be back there again soon to do it.
If the column can be turned then either some sort of column lock bypass (CLB or LMC5) has been installed or the GM version 04006C of the recall service has been done to the car.
You can check easily for an LMC5 by looking in the passenger footwell near the BCM (large silver box) for a device that looks like this:
http://www.complianceparts.com
If there is no LMC5 than looking for a CLB involves more effort than it is worth as you need to drop the drivers side knee bolster and look for the CLB module.
Down sides of not having some type of column lock bypass is that there is a distinct possibility of getting stranded by the GM Column Lock FUBAR. If the column still locks you could end up stranded by the column remaining locked even after successfully starting the car because the voltage to operate the column lock system was not high enough to do so yet the voltage was NOT low enough to prevent the car from starting. Electronics relies on minimum voltage levels to function while the starter relies on minimum current levels.
Additionally if the column still locks (or even if it no longer locks) with NO KEY in the ignition the GM Column Lock Recall Service may have been done to the car and part of GM's CYA for the column lock system was to enable a 2mph fuel shut off if the BCM thinks the column is locked when it should be unlocked. This is to prevent an inattentive driver from trying to drive the car with a locked column. Sounds like a great idea except that the implementation sucks. It is now possible to become stranded by the fuel shutoff even if the column is NOT LOCKED. The BCM which controls the column lock system has no physical way to determine if the column is locked or not so it relies on a sequence of commands and responses to try to keep track of the columns "sate" BCM issuse a command such as LOCK and expects a response (Completed) from the lock motor to know the command was recognized and acted on. BUT it is possible for electronic components between the BCM and the lock motor to fail such that either the command or the response was never seen by the end points. This causes the BCM to get out of logical sync with the columns actual condition. The result is that the BCM can cause the 2mph fuel shutoff to be enabled and the driver to become stranded. OK if its in your driveway but what if it is hundreds of miles from home.
Long story short, if your car does NOT have an LMC5 installed I suggest that you order one and install it. While you are installing it do the "brown wire mod" explained on page 2 of the install instructions while you are there. If you don't chances are you will be back there again soon to do it.
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 800
Likes: 45
From: San Diego CA
Okay, checked my codes and here's the list. Btw, this is the first time I've checked this and I do have an aftermarket stereo.
A0-LDCM - B2282 H, U1064 H
A1-RDCM- B2283 H, U1064 H
B0-RFA - U1096 H, U1064 H, U1016 H
Then I had one that said "No Comm" for the radio. I ended up clearing everything for the first time.
A0-LDCM - B2282 H, U1064 H
A1-RDCM- B2283 H, U1064 H
B0-RFA - U1096 H, U1064 H, U1016 H
Then I had one that said "No Comm" for the radio. I ended up clearing everything for the first time.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 800
Likes: 45
From: San Diego CA
Expected for an aftermarket radio.
Only thing interesting about the other codes is that they are somewhat common when the battery has recently been disconnected/reconnected. You might want to check ALL battery connections including the ones at the STARTER solenoid and the ones at each fuse box to insure that they are all clean and TIGHT. MOST LIKELY the above codes are all left over from your battery change a few months back. When installing the last battery connection you often have the electrical contact of the post to the battery make and break several times as you tighten the bolt. This causes sensors in the car to go a little crazy seeing power and losing power in rapid succession and they set codes that have no useful meaning.
Next time that the symptoms happen first thing I would do is pull the codes again to see which if any have returned. If things are good with the battery I would NOT expect any to be returned now that you have cleared them.
NONE of those codes are related to VATS issues, or Column Lock issues you mentioned in your first post above.
Only thing interesting about the other codes is that they are somewhat common when the battery has recently been disconnected/reconnected. You might want to check ALL battery connections including the ones at the STARTER solenoid and the ones at each fuse box to insure that they are all clean and TIGHT. MOST LIKELY the above codes are all left over from your battery change a few months back. When installing the last battery connection you often have the electrical contact of the post to the battery make and break several times as you tighten the bolt. This causes sensors in the car to go a little crazy seeing power and losing power in rapid succession and they set codes that have no useful meaning.
Next time that the symptoms happen first thing I would do is pull the codes again to see which if any have returned. If things are good with the battery I would NOT expect any to be returned now that you have cleared them.
NONE of those codes are related to VATS issues, or Column Lock issues you mentioned in your first post above.
Thank you for this detailed response. I do have an aftermarket adapter connection on my battery so I could run connectors for my positive amp cable. I am running 2 amps on my car which are also fused separately. I should probably recheck all connections at the battery. Because one thing I do remember is, when I had the old battery and it would die, I would recharge it with my charger. After recharging it and starting the car, it would do the start and die thing one time, then it was normal. The battery was from 2010 and it finally died completely couple months back. I was being cheap and waited until I really needed one, so I purchased a new one at costco (Interstate battery).
Last edited by EVLGTO; Aug 27, 2018 at 08:22 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,138
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From: Espanola New Mexico
As mentioned earlier your problem is not VATS or column lock problems, I would add a couple more gallons of gas and see if it stays running, if it doesn't I would check fuel pressure at the fuel rail, and pull a spark plug wire to check if spark is present, it could be either your BCM or PCM is cutting out right after the car starts. You mentioned your gas gauge is sort of funky, maybe you do not have 1/4 tank of gas. Good Luck
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 1
From: Acworth GA
Thank you for this detailed response. I do have an aftermarket adapter connection on my battery so I could run connectors for my positive amp cable. I am running 2 amps on my car which are also fused separately. I should probably recheck all connections at the battery. Because one thing I do remember is, when I had the old battery and it would die, I would recharge it with my charger. After recharging it and starting the car, it would do the start and die thing one time, then it was normal. The battery was from 2010 and it finally died completely couple months back. I was being cheap and waited until I really needed one, so I purchased a new one at costco (Interstate battery).
Moderator, Tech Contributor
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 15,628
Likes: 4,071
From: Cape Coral, Florida
Don’t think it’s a VATS issue being it’s intermittent...I’d be leaning towards fuel delivery (pump) and possibly even a bad MAF or a wonky cam/crank sensor...disconnect the MAF connector (it will now run off the MAP) and see if it now starts better...without some basic diagnostic knowledge and some tooling (fuel pressure gauge) it will be a crapshoot !!...good luck !!
Last edited by C5 Diag; Sep 2, 2018 at 09:26 AM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 800
Likes: 45
From: San Diego CA
YESSSSSS!!!! I think I may have figured it out!! I went out to dinner tonight and just got back. I was talking with my wife about something while I had my fingers touching the ignition while car was on, but didn't turn it off yet. All of the sudden the car shut off. I'm like wtf??? I didn't turn it
So I turned the car back on and just tapped the key and the car shut off. THAT HAS TO BE IT!! Ignition switch then???
So I turned the car back on and just tapped the key and the car shut off. THAT HAS TO BE IT!! Ignition switch then???
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 1
From: Acworth GA
YESSSSSS!!!! I think I may have figured it out!! I went out to dinner tonight and just got back. I was talking with my wife about something while I had my fingers touching the ignition while car was on, but didn't turn it off yet. All of the sudden the car shut off. I'm like wtf??? I didn't turn it So I turned the car back on and just tapped the key and the car shut off. THAT HAS TO BE IT!! Ignition switch then???
So I turned the car back on and just tapped the key and the car shut off. THAT HAS TO BE IT!! Ignition switch then???
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 800
Likes: 45
From: San Diego CA