DannyG

leadfoot4

I'm not familiar enough with the valve spring situation to offer any advice Regarding the "needle bearings", you're referring to, the ones in the rocker arms, I do have some experience. The consensus is that if you stay with a stock lift cam, and or stock stiffness valve springs, the rockers should be OK. The operative word, of course, is SHOULD.

Having said that, most of us "enthusiasts" don't like the term "should", we prefer the term "will", as in they WILL hold up. To that end, there are a couple of alternatives to the OE rocker arm trunnions. One is the CompCams replacement trunnions, that still use needle bearings, but they have a better range of rotation, to accommodate higher lift cams, as well as a better retention means, for the needles. There are also kits that utilize "bushings" to replace the needle bearings. To the best of my knowledge, they are sold by Straub Technology, CHE, and Brian Tooley Racing. These bushings also offer a full range of rotation, and "no moving parts" that could fail, and dump debris into the engine.

In the "gearhead's twisted desire" to have a bulletproof engine, even if not racing the car, I've used both the CompCams trunnions, as well as the Straub Technology bushings. While I noticed no difference in performance, between the two designs, Ill say that the bushings made the engine quieter. A lot of the "sewing machine" clatter is gone.

Spaggs

Absolutely. I have an early model 03 Z, as well. I just did mine. I changed my yellow valve springs to the GM blue ones. I also changed out my needle bearings for the solid brass trunnion upgrade. I did a lot of research and found for my needs this was the best call. I track my car a few times a year and beat the snot out of it, but the engine is basically stock. I chose the Straub trunnions because they incorporated a good oiling system into the trunnion design and good reviews. I also purchased their optional new rocker bolts.
I did this myself with some tools, like a spring compressor from Jegs (I replaced all of the nuts/bolts and washers with Grade 8 hardware) and a trunnion tool press and air compressor connector from Summit. I would be leery about allowing someone else to do the trunnion upgrade because I have read a lot about people assembling them and having the brass bushings pressed into the rocker arm incorrectly and causing binding issues. I was very particular about this process and had to figure out a fool proof way to do this. If you can find a shop that has done this upgrade and can explain to you how they prevent binding from happening, then let them do it.
Make sure that you replace the valve keepers, valve seals, valve cover gaskets and injector gaskets.
Another question for the mechanic would be how do they torque your rocker arm bolts. If they don't mention anything about finding Top Dead Center regarding the #1 cylinder, they might not be a good choice. The shop manual specifically states how to do this. Some forum members will tell you this is not necessary, but others agree that this is important and if it is in the GM shop manual, it's worth considering.
To me, you are doing the right thing.
Good luck.
Spaggs

vettenuts

I would use the GM valve springs, not the kit you listed. GM did make a design change in the rockers, which I believe was prior to 2003. So replacement is your call.

Here is a post from Eric D from 2010 on the rocker design. IIRC he was a GM engineer.

DannyG

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying the needle bearing issue wasn't/isn't a problem on 03 and up LS motors?

Spaggs

With your inquiry of beehive springs, my assumption is that you don't plan on babying your new toy. If you are going with a hotter cam, by all means get the beehives. But if you going that route, do the trunnion upgrade regardless of which needle bearings are in place. Cheap insurance.
I'll shut up now.
Spaggs

neutron82

$250 in extra labor to replace the trunnions is ridiculous, the rockers have to come off anyway to do the springs and they might be able to add an hour labor at most to do the trunnions which is around $100 at most shops... if it was $250 parts and labor then it's a little more reasonable depending on which kit you go with... the straub and che kits are much nicer in my opinion, that's what I would go with personally

DannyG

DannyG

neutron82

if it's labor only when done at the same time as the springs then yes... if they are quoting 2 hours it sounds like they are just quoting each individual job and not taking into account that the rockers are already coming off as part of the valve spring replacement... now if you went in only for a trunnion rebuild then it's more reasonable

ArmchairArchitect

So are you saying this was not an issue with LS6 motors, just the LS1?

DannyG

Been thinking it might be worthwhile to do something that’ll provide some performance gains along with this preventative maintenance - If I decided to swap out the cam at the same time, what is a fair amount of time to be quoted/price to pay for that labor?

I assume that could be all over the board and I want to make sure I go in armed with a little more education.

Appreciate it!

turabo87

This whole valve dropping issue and needle bearing issues, do they also affect LS1's on 1999 FRC's? Just curious if I should start worrying at 90k miles and maybe plan sooner my cam+springs replacement.

vettenuts

According to "Eric D", there was a redesign incorporated in later C5's (03/04) to correct the needle loss issue. LS1 and LS6 use the same parts.

stopstaring

Just replaced mine yesterday. last of the VIN is 22889. Car has 58.5k on it. 2002.

All were yellow springs. Replaced with PAC 1219. A little louder of a sound out of the valvetrain. Did plugs and wires while I was there. Seemingly runs great, as it did before I found this thread. Thanks for the heads up!

Mitch954

Hey gang,
New guy here.
I picked up my 03 Z in April (2021). 37k miles.
I was not in to pulling a valve cover to look at the springs, and had a hard time trying to pull the oil fill tube out to take a look.
For 20 bucks, I bought a Bluetooth borescope from Amazon. It might not tell the whole picture, but I was able to easily see that my springs were silver/grey in color.
A big sigh of relief, but I still may change to the blues at some point.
Sry for the big pic.
Build date: 11/02
Last 4: 14642

Gianna66

great info

grinder11

Doing the math on this $250 labor quote, they're figuring they can do each rocker in roughly 15 minutes, 40 seconds. I did mine myself, BUT-over 15 minutes minutes to remove the old needles, etc., and press in two new bronze bushings......Well, imho, I think nearly 16 minutes per rocker is terrible As for $100 to R&R the trunnions, that's just over 6 minutes each, and much more reasonable. To the OP, RUN if someone tries talking you into the Comp kit. They fail more often than stock, by contaminating your oil with tiny, powdered metal, similar to powdered sugar. Except steel powder can, and will, splash all over everything inside your engine. My 2 cents.....

scottinky

good morning! I am new to the site, and looking to buy my first corvette at the end of the week. Could someone run a VIN for me? I am trying to see what the options are on this 2001 I am leaning towards puchasing.
1G1YY22G415134122

Thanks!!!!

leadfoot4

This post needs to be moved to the proper topic..............