I just did (2) ATAP runs and really could use some help understanding them..anyone? :rolleyes: I wonder if you can tell the injector duty cycles from the information.I'm told the car is very rich in the left bank as well when NOT in WOT. Any experts out there?

Here are the links to the ATAP logs..
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c5/vstella//tap6.txt http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c5/vstella//tap7.txt



[Modified by vstella, 8:44 PM 11/1/2002]

 

Well, I am NOT the expert - but I will comment and at least move this backto the top...

Maybe Ross can comment more, but I have NO IDEA why you would be getting 21.1 Fuel Trims in Bank 2 of Cell 22.

Are you using v2.02, or a v2.03 overwrite on top of v2.02?

I saw the autotap website http://www.autotap.com has a forum section and there were some members reporting weird numbers in certain fields from that...

You appear to be getting a longer pulsewidth on B2 as well.

Ross?

Inj Pulse Inj Pulse LT Fuel LT Fuel
Width B1 Width B2 Trim B1 Trim B2
16.6 20 0 21.1
17 20.39 0 21.1
17.78 21.85 0 21.1
17.72 21.27 0 21.1
17.24 20.52 0 21.1
16.33 19.71 0 21.1
17.23 20.84 0 21.1
17.58 21.06 0 21.1
17.85 21.45 0 21.1
17.99 21.59 0 21.1
17.99 21.65 0 21.1
18.05 21.51 0 21.1
17.85 21.26 0 21.1
17.46 21.06 0 21.1
17.32 20.78 0 21.1
17.24 20.57 0 21.1

 

Wow I hate that. Does this forum software have ANY way to handle tables? Overall I like CF's software better than most of the others but the table handling sucks!

 

Tom ..I appreciate the feedback ..I do..But could you speak english to this old man.. :rolleyes: Is the car getting too much fuel or not enough fuel? :confused:

 

I ran the Autotaps for Vince.. I used the DOS version. I will never use the windows version...

 

Here is what I have been able to gather so far.

First, I think it is very odd for you to have a big positive number on B2 Cell 22 (WOT) fuel trim.

That indicates a lean condition on that bank. Your longer pulsewidths on that bank also indicate that the computer is trying to make bank 2 richer.

 

Are you getting any of these DTC Codes?

DTC P0171 Bank 1 Too Lean.
DTC P0172 Bank 2 Too Rich.
DTC P0174 Bank 1 Too Lean.
DTC P0175 Bank 2 Too Rich.

 

No codes EVER..but then again Ed Wright may have deleted them..

You have mail..:D GoodLuck.

 

1-19 – used to update fuel trims
20 – Idle Cell
21 – Deceleration Cell
22 – WOT (Power Enrichment mode)

In cell 11 you have some weird things going on - the LTFT's change rapidly, which I wouldn't expect - and they are pretty different from bank to bank.

Cells 1 and 5 are odd too. Cell 5 is showing a full +25 LTFT which I believe is the max.

Just glancing at the info, Cell 5 appears to be a low load, light throttle cell.

I'd be curious to hear what someone else has to say.

My first thoughts are:

Are you showing any codes?

Have you modded the MAF or TB?

Have you run leaded fuel at any point, or is there any reason to suspect your O2 sensors are screwed up?

Is the autotap software working correctly? I guess the DOS version is fairly reliable...

 

My guess is if your O2s are working properly you have a vaccuum leak or something going on on the right bank to make it add so much more fuel. You also have a lot of KR which could be from a vacuum leak. It could also be an exhaust leak before the O2 on that bank. Since your O2s are reading pretty even at WOT the PCM seems to be doing what it is supposed to - wheather its corect or not. It could be a bad O2 as well causing it.

Its OK to have a little difference between banks but +21 and 0 is a problem, you are seeing more of a pulse width on the right bank because with a +21 ltrim its dumping more fuel. I wouldnt worry about your duty cycle until you get it fixed :)

 

FWIW..Idid get a response from the A/F guru..Shawn(kewlbrz)
"Shawn Whitehead" <ssw@allegrodevelopment.com> wrote:

>Looking at your log files, I see that your fuel trims are compensating for a lean condition by adding fuel. I think this is what is making you rich during WOT because it is compensating too much during non-wot.
>
>So basically you need to lower your average + long term fuel trims. Preferably to a point of 0 or less than 0.
>
>You need more fuel during non-wot, either by larger injectors, and/or programming.

I think the SVO's would be slight overkill without programming adjustments to go along with them, but would be better, then were your at now without programming adjustments.

Regarding having Ed update your PCM. I definatly think he could get it right or very close with the logs. I would however include timing advance in any logs you send him.

Shawn

 

No expert here but I did reduce your data :) :)

George

Here is a summary of your TAP6 data


Here is a summary of your TAP7 data





[Modified by Black_Magic, 9:08 AM 11/2/2002]

 

Thanks..I'm starting to understand there is a bad 02 sensor or a vacuum leak somewhere on the one bank..Why else would there such a inconsistency the one bank.. :confused: I'll have the deaer check out the 02 sensors first..and maybe the injectors....cheap insurance :D

 

I read your page and looking at your mods, the headers certainly come to mind as a possible area where the O2 sensors might have been damaged at some point...

I'd start with a scanner - get someone to run a check and see if you have any codes stored for a bad O2 sensor.

You might also try spraying some ether around the intake manifold and look for a leak on Bank 2 (which someone here will have to tell you if it is the driver side or passenger side).

You've got some pretty good mods, but nothing that should throw the computer out of whack. It sure looks like you are either getting unmetered air to bank 2 or you have an O2 sensor that is reporting bad data on bank 2.

PLEASE let us know what you find out. I will be very interested.


[Modified by Tom Steele, 5:05 PM 11/2/2002]

 

PLEASE let us know what you find out. I will be very interested...Tom Steele

Thanks Tom..I remember that when the TPIS were installed that the installer had a problem with the sensor and it DID throw codes..I would reset the DIC and erase it but it would always come back ..UNTIL.. Ed Wright programmed the car this past April for the Head and Cam install. He must have deleted the code but the problem is still there.. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Monday I will ask the dealer to replace the 02 sensors under warranty..they have been very cooperative with me in the past ..couldn't hurt!

Thanks:D

 

Vince my O2's are also very far apart on their readings. My dealer just told me they will replace them next week...:D

I feel stupid now. I can't believe I did not check for stored codes while I had the Autotap running... :conehead
I am sorry..

 

>Here are the links to the ATAP logs..

The logs are not up anymore.


>LTFuel B1 = 0
>LTFuel B2 = 21.1

What cell is this data from? Do you see the same trends in all the cruising cells?

The Bank 2 O2 sensor is detecting a pretty big lean closed loop condition when the car burns the initially delivered mixture. The PCM is telling Bank 2 to supply a lot more fuel to fix this temporary lean condition. That is a huge difference in trims between banks. Every car will have a small difference between banks, but this is very excessive. Something is wrong with this car’s state of tune. Is this a factory stock car? There is no way to independently tune B1 & B2 with LS1Edit so I doubt that this can be corrected with PCM tuning. You could have a vacuum leak, bad injector, ignition problem, O2 sensor problem, etc.. From where I sit I have no idea.



>I ran the Autotaps for Vince.. I used the DOS version.

Smart, the DOS version is the best one out there.



>>That indicates a lean condition on that bank. Your longer
>>pulsewidths on that bank also indicate that the computer is trying to make bank 2 richer.

This is basically true, but I should add that the B2 O2 sensor temporarily detected lean when the motor burned the initially computed mixture. The PCM is now supplying more fuel as compensation for that bank (Pulse width confirms that). If the LTFT values for that bank are not moving anymore then the B2 O2 sensor thinks the bank is at 14.7:1. Remember that if everything is working correctly an O2 sensor will bounce around 14.7:1 like a sine wave.


>>1-19 – used to update fuel trims
>>20 – Idle Cell
>>21 – Deceleration Cell
>>22 – WOT (Power Enrichment mode)

For a 2002 Z06:
Cells 18 & 19 are idle cells.
Cell 20 is an open loop idle cell.
This can vary if your car is not an 02 Z06.

>You also have a lot of KR which could be from a vacuum leak.

I did not see the Autotap logs, but if this is true then you have some issue that need to be resolved.