Head work gains
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Banned Scam/Spammer
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Head work gains
Hi all. I have a question regarding the benefit of doing some head work or possibly a head swap on my car. My car is an 03 base with longtubes/full exhaust, vararam vrb2 and a dyno tune. Its sitting right at 355wtq and 330whp. I decided againts a cam upgrade because i love the powerband and mannerisms that the car had stock. Its great now but my question is if i would benefit from a ported/ freshened head work over with my 241s or some rebuilt to stockish spec 243s.
Ive read many threads here and on ls1 tech about it but most threads end up with the OP being birated for not getting a cam to go with it.
So...what i would like to know is if my powerband would stay the same with about 20-25 extra HP somewhere in the curve.
I Dont care about the expense to HP ratio. I just want to know if i can bolt heads on and get a few extra horses without shifting my power curve. Some people only worry about the $ to HP ratio but im more curious about the labor to HP ratio. If i can bolt on 15 to 25 Hp without even raising the car up i would be tickled.
The car is going to stay the way it is as a weekend toy. The only thing i might add is a 100 shot of dry Nitrous at which point i would bring the car to the dyno again for a retune on the heads and spray. No track use.
Thanks!
Ive read many threads here and on ls1 tech about it but most threads end up with the OP being birated for not getting a cam to go with it.
So...what i would like to know is if my powerband would stay the same with about 20-25 extra HP somewhere in the curve.
I Dont care about the expense to HP ratio. I just want to know if i can bolt heads on and get a few extra horses without shifting my power curve. Some people only worry about the $ to HP ratio but im more curious about the labor to HP ratio. If i can bolt on 15 to 25 Hp without even raising the car up i would be tickled.
The car is going to stay the way it is as a weekend toy. The only thing i might add is a 100 shot of dry Nitrous at which point i would bring the car to the dyno again for a retune on the heads and spray. No track use.
Thanks!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 377
From: SW Ohio
It's a complex answer that is intertwined with intake flow, head runner volume and flow characteristics, and cam shaft duration / lift. To assume GM left 25 hp on the table in restrictive heads alone would be a mistake. If you bolted on a set of 243's and an LS6 intake you may get your 25 hp however. But again, now matter how good your heads and intake flow, the cam is only going to let in the valves open so long before they close. It all is designed to work together.
I know you don't want to hear it said at all brother, but a 224 cam, 243's, and an LS6 intake would be your ideal setup to retain the stock like torque curve but with inflated numbers.
I know you don't want to hear it said at all brother, but a 224 cam, 243's, and an LS6 intake would be your ideal setup to retain the stock like torque curve but with inflated numbers.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,013
Likes: 726
Hi all. I have a question regarding the benefit of doing some head work or possibly a head swap on my car. My car is an 03 base with longtubes/full exhaust, vararam vrb2 and a dyno tune. Its sitting right at 355wtq and 330whp. I decided againts a cam upgrade because i love the powerband and mannerisms that the car had stock. Its great now but my question is if i would benefit from a ported/ freshened head work over with my 241s or some rebuilt to stockish spec 243s.
Ive read many threads here and on ls1 tech about it but most threads end up with the OP being birated for not getting a cam to go with it.
So...what i would like to know is if my powerband would stay the same with about 20-25 extra HP somewhere in the curve.
I Dont care about the expense to HP ratio. I just want to know if i can bolt heads on and get a few extra horses without shifting my power curve. Some people only worry about the $ to HP ratio but im more curious about the labor to HP ratio. If i can bolt on 15 to 25 Hp without even raising the car up i would be tickled.
The car is going to stay the way it is as a weekend toy. The only thing i might add is a 100 shot of dry Nitrous at which point i would bring the car to the dyno again for a retune on the heads and spray. No track use.
Thanks!
Ive read many threads here and on ls1 tech about it but most threads end up with the OP being birated for not getting a cam to go with it.
So...what i would like to know is if my powerband would stay the same with about 20-25 extra HP somewhere in the curve.
I Dont care about the expense to HP ratio. I just want to know if i can bolt heads on and get a few extra horses without shifting my power curve. Some people only worry about the $ to HP ratio but im more curious about the labor to HP ratio. If i can bolt on 15 to 25 Hp without even raising the car up i would be tickled.
The car is going to stay the way it is as a weekend toy. The only thing i might add is a 100 shot of dry Nitrous at which point i would bring the car to the dyno again for a retune on the heads and spray. No track use.
Thanks!
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. Everybody has their own experience.
Last edited by helga203; Apr 3, 2021 at 10:44 AM.
Pro
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http://vincihighperformance.com/BECK...CT%20PAGE.HTML This guy gained almost 40 hp with AFR heads alone, not bad I'd say, stock cam.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,013
Likes: 726
http://vincihighperformance.com/BECK...CT%20PAGE.HTML This guy gained almost 40 hp with AFR heads alone, not bad I'd say, stock cam.
Thread Starter
Banned Scam/Spammer
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Friend did this and no u will not gain enough hp to make it worth it ,now if you mill the the heads and port it will add more compression gain more hp it will be worth it and because your not changing the profile of the cam you will gain more at the same cuve. Keep in mind depending on how much you mill you will change the angle so you will have to change push rods or get adjustage rockers . Any way for more hp so you need to mill enough to benefit from doing all the work. Just like guys porting TB's some say they gain some say not. The dyno to me is not that accurate to till 5,10 hp gain. Know guys going to dyno different days will show less hp or more depending on the day's weather. You will need a tune.NO bring up cam because your not changing. But if you just change cam u will make more hp then what you are doing but ignore that.THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. Everybody has their own experience.
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. Everybody has their own experience.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,013
Likes: 726
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Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,222
Likes: 1,078
From: South Florida
terrible idea to perform open-engine and/or head modifications in your situation of being a novice and not understanding enough about cleanliness or mechanics
1. cam offers far more power potential
2. cam is far less invasive of a procedure
3. if you aren't able to perform the work yourself or understand the risk of opening an engine, don't do it
bottom line is, you don't tinker around with a good engine for less than 100hp
You want more power? add forced induction and a proper fuel system
20 or 80hp isn't worth ruining the engine in ways you can even understand
1. cam offers far more power potential
2. cam is far less invasive of a procedure
3. if you aren't able to perform the work yourself or understand the risk of opening an engine, don't do it
bottom line is, you don't tinker around with a good engine for less than 100hp
You want more power? add forced induction and a proper fuel system
20 or 80hp isn't worth ruining the engine in ways you can even understand
Thread Starter
Banned Scam/Spammer
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 322
Likes: 54
terrible idea to perform open-engine and/or head modifications in your situation of being a novice and not understanding enough about cleanliness or mechanics
1. cam offers far more power potential
2. cam is far less invasive of a procedure
3. if you aren't able to perform the work yourself or understand the risk of opening an engine, don't do it
bottom line is, you don't tinker around with a good engine for less than 100hp
You want more power? add forced induction and a proper fuel system
20 or 80hp isn't worth ruining the engine in ways you can even understand
1. cam offers far more power potential
2. cam is far less invasive of a procedure
3. if you aren't able to perform the work yourself or understand the risk of opening an engine, don't do it
bottom line is, you don't tinker around with a good engine for less than 100hp
You want more power? add forced induction and a proper fuel system
20 or 80hp isn't worth ruining the engine in ways you can even understand
Last edited by 2003_Coupe; Apr 3, 2021 at 10:51 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,013
Likes: 726
Wow. Just wow. There is a lot of hostility here. Where did you get this idea of my novice abilities as a mechanic? I already have opened my engine and to be fair its not rocket science. Its just specs on paper and its all just held together with nuts and bolts. Your post contains nothing but regurgetated basic knowledge prefaced and concluded with insult. You sir are an embarrasment to this community and have been of no help.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,222
Likes: 1,078
From: South Florida
Wow. Just wow. There is a lot of hostility here. Where did you get this idea of my novice abilities as a mechanic? I already have opened my engine and to be fair its not rocket science. Its just specs on paper and its all just held together with nuts and bolts. Your post contains nothing but regurgetated basic knowledge prefaced and concluded with insult. You sir are an embarrasment to this community and have been of no help.
You clearly lack some basic knowledge of volumetric efficiency if you are disregarding camshaft customization. Not an insult just common sense and apparent.
Camshaft is the most important aspect of getting what you want from an engine, and the cheapest internal modification towards that end.
Trying to alter engine airflow character while working around an OEM camshaft is like trying to sail around the world in a rubber ducky
Its like trying to climb a mountain without any gear
like taking a bath in muddy water
you are cutting off 30-40% or more of an engine's potential by keeping an OEM camshaft and that goes for the majority of engines ever produced.
How could you not know that?
you are not really serious about performance or cleanliness if you don't understand that a cam upgrade is necessary no matter WHAT your goals are.
I recommend in any order:
1. lean how engines work
2. learn how to tune a carb and distributor
3. learn how to tune EFI, get hprtuners
4. get a degree in biology and chemistry
5. practice on an old engine, taking it apart, setting up a clean room to do the job
6. read the service manual for your engine
Thread Starter
Banned Scam/Spammer
Joined: Apr 2020
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Who let you near a cleanroom? Talking from the A** is againts cleanroom protocol. Clean rooms were created to contain particles and contamination like the stuff coming from you. Did you read my original post? All this smart talk from you but it would appear that you cant even read/ comprehend. Maybe you just comprend what you want to. After your little fit, i read through some of your other posts. It baffles me how you can post so many useless condensending responses. Doesnt it get tiring? Never mind I already know the answer. Your redundant input has been noted. "Thanks."
Last edited by 2003_Coupe; Apr 4, 2021 at 05:55 PM.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 661
Likes: 182
From: Knoxville TN
I would mill the heads and or more importantly run a thinner head gasket, you’ll need to reduce quench to keep from spark knock with the stock cam, if running an ls1 intake then switch to an ls6, the increased compression will bring up both hp and tq