Z51 vs F45
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 14,542
Likes: 5
Re: Z51 vs F45 (DsC5)
I think F45 has the base sway bars, etc., so the z51 would outhandle it. :seeya
Having said that, roll stiffness is not the sole determining factor in a steady state handling comparison, which is what the skid pad is.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 247
Likes: 2
From: Naples Florida
Re: Z51 vs F45 (ifeeltheneedforspeed)
I hate it when people make a statement and don't explain the rational, like I just did.
Thicker sway bars reduce the angle of roll of the vehicle. Less vehicle roll reduces the effect of positive camber of the tire patch to the road during cornering. Also, more roll will compress the springs and can result negative handling characteristics.
One statement that GM made about why they increased the rear spring rate on the zo6 was that excessive spring compression while accelerating hard out of a corner led to a bottoming out of the spring which will result in oversteer because of the sudden increase of spring stiffness when it hits the bump stops.
Not only are the z51 and zo6 sway bars thicker than the f45, but the springs are stiffer as well. Both of these will reduce the angle of body roll.
Thicker sway bars reduce the angle of roll of the vehicle. Less vehicle roll reduces the effect of positive camber of the tire patch to the road during cornering. Also, more roll will compress the springs and can result negative handling characteristics.
One statement that GM made about why they increased the rear spring rate on the zo6 was that excessive spring compression while accelerating hard out of a corner led to a bottoming out of the spring which will result in oversteer because of the sudden increase of spring stiffness when it hits the bump stops.
Not only are the z51 and zo6 sway bars thicker than the f45, but the springs are stiffer as well. Both of these will reduce the angle of body roll.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 13,292
Likes: 0
From: Hockessin Delaware
Re: Z51 vs F45 (EHS)
I think F45 has the base sway bars, etc., so the z51 would outhandle it. :seeya
Why?
Having said that, roll stiffness is not the sole determining factor in a steady state handling comparison, which is what the skid pad is.
Why?
Having said that, roll stiffness is not the sole determining factor in a steady state handling comparison, which is what the skid pad is.
To make my initial statement more precise, we could say:
"I think F45 has the base sway bars, etc., so the z51 should outhandle it. :seeya"
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. :seeya
[Modified by DsC5, 12:16 AM 1/19/2003]
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Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Alpharetta GA
Re: Z51 vs F45 (MY Vette)
Here is my .02 worth. My '98 has the F45. Yes, the sway bars are standard. From what I have been told (and have not tried..YET) is to install the Z51 sway bars on the car, supposedly this is the ultimate setup since you can adjust the suspension and have the benefit of the bigger bars. I have also been told that I can obtain these REALLY cheap from some of the Tuners as Takeoffs..
My father's 2000 has the Z51 and it handles much better than my 98 (am sure that the active handling has a lot to do with this also but...) however I prefer the 98 for a long trip as the smooth ride is nice when not wringing out a mountain road.
If anyone has some Z51 sway bars sitting around, give me a ring...
Ken
My father's 2000 has the Z51 and it handles much better than my 98 (am sure that the active handling has a lot to do with this also but...) however I prefer the 98 for a long trip as the smooth ride is nice when not wringing out a mountain road.
If anyone has some Z51 sway bars sitting around, give me a ring...
Ken
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 885
Likes: 0
From: The Woodlands Texas
Re: Z51 vs F45 (Rob K)
Well, I have a 2001 convertible that I autocross. I have the F45 suspension and have installed the Z06 front/rear sway bars :steering: - what a difference! The car corners flat and is much more responsive on the course.
My next mod will be to add an 800# front spring and a 560# rear spring from VBP.
Costs - Z06 sway bars + metal end links $265 from Fitchner.
Springs $950 (unless I can get a set off someone)
All in all, I like the F45 with Z06 suspension setup. :hurray:
Save The Wave :cheers: :seeya :cool:
My next mod will be to add an 800# front spring and a 560# rear spring from VBP.
Costs - Z06 sway bars + metal end links $265 from Fitchner.
Springs $950 (unless I can get a set off someone)
All in all, I like the F45 with Z06 suspension setup. :hurray:
Save The Wave :cheers: :seeya :cool:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 2
From: Sindelfingen Germany
Re: Z51 vs F45 (jeanlucpicard)
My next mod will be to add an 800# front spring and a 560# rear spring from VBP.
Question: how did you get the #´s for the springs? Is there a reason for 800/560? How did you select this?
Thanks
Frederik
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 885
Likes: 0
From: The Woodlands Texas
Re: Z51 vs F45 (C5 Frederik)
I contacted VBP and discussed my intentions, daily driver car, frequency of autocrossing, desire for ride quality (not rail car but firm while leaving kidneys intact), and so on. We went back and forth for about 2 weeks and the 2 spring rates were agreed upon.
Hope the helps.
SAVE THE WAVE :seeya :cheers: :cool:
Hope the helps.
SAVE THE WAVE :seeya :cheers: :cool:
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
From: West Columbia SC
Re: Z51 vs F45 (Rob K)
do the '02's come with aluminum endlinks as standard equipment? i assumed that they did when I ordered the Z-51 bars from Fichtner.
since the Z-51 bars are larger in diameter than stock, wouldn't we need a different insulator?
also, are there different insulator material options? maybe polyurethane or something like that. :confused:
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,661
Likes: 67
From: Ocean Springs MS
Re: Z51 vs F45 (MY Vette)
Just my .02....you'd have to wonder why the F45 option costs way more than the Z-51 then, right? Sheeese, I dunno.... :confused:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 885
Likes: 0
From: The Woodlands Texas
Re: Z51 vs F45 (EHS)
Actually, PalmettoVetteman, your comment is not necessarily accurate. My Z06 bars from Ken Fitchner Chevrolet was a kit that included the front and rear sway bars, bushings AND metal end links. So the end links are not extra if you purchase the GM kit. Ken sells the whole enchilada for around $270 delivered to your doorstep! Ken is great.
SAVE THE WAVE :seeya :cheers: :cool:
SAVE THE WAVE :seeya :cheers: :cool:
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 14,542
Likes: 5
Re: Z51 vs F45 (jeanlucpicard)
OOOpppsss..... Sorry Vetteman, should have been EHS. Got my replies crossed.
my "kit" from Bob Wendorff, Director of Parts and the General Universe of Fichtner Chevrolet, purchased in 2000, included the Z51 bars with the bushings, AND WITHOUT THE ENDLINKS. I paid extra for mine.
The thread was about the Z51 parts, not the Z06. I note that the Z06 parts package comes with the endlinks.
Your results may have varied. OOOpppsss.....
[Modified by EHS, 6:28 PM 1/24/2003]