Lifter differences
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 125
Likes: 42
From: US
More specifically these two:
https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Per...58689/10002/-1
----------‐-------------------------------------
https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Per...99225/10002/-1
Is one just paying extra for the Bowtie insignia?
Or is there engineering differences?
https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Per...58689/10002/-1
----------‐-------------------------------------
https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Per...99225/10002/-1
Is one just paying extra for the Bowtie insignia?
Or is there engineering differences?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 888
Likes: 982
From: NW Burbs of Chi-Town
2025 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
From my research in the spring, The Caddy has a ceramic check valve and the 225 is the standard "LS7" lifter. As was stated, there have been failures reported in both lifters when used in High Performance applications (high lift cams and dual springs). I have single beehive GM springs,, .550 low lift cam and my engine max power is in the 6200 rpm range. I went with the 225 lifters. If I was running dual springs and higher rpms I may not have went that route...
Good general info here:
Good general info here:
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 125
Likes: 42
From: US
Thank you, I am still pieceing together all my parts for the valvetrain. The lifters are arguably one of the most important parts. I didnt want to be cheap however, I just want to know what I'm paying for. If that makes sense. The 243s I'm getting from AI have the dual PAC springs. I believe 155lbs at 1.780", 380lbs at 1.180" and 400lbs at 1.130". Lift is under .600 on both I/E. The tuner I use suggested the Johnson 2110s. I was just looking for others and thought these "caddy" lifters would also do well. Along with the morels. I'm wondering, how much of the lifer failures I read about either here or on ls1tech are a result of improper pushrod length? I do beat my car up from time to time but I'm not regularly shifting at 6800k. Just want something solid and proven to handle some abuse. Thanks
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
I have the Caddy Racing Lifters. Most say they are the same lifters as the LS7 type. Mine work excellent and I also run my engine hard.
The couple thing I can specify and highly recommend are:
1. New GM lifter buckets
2. Larger Diameter Pushrods
3. New or aftermarket rocker pedestals. The OEM ones will be severely worn and need replacement.
4. I have the LS6 engine and my block is drilled and tapped for the LS6 Chain Dampener. There are now aftermarket companies that remake that discontinued part and there are also companies that produce a timing chain dampener kit that does not need to have the block machined if your block is not equipped with that machined option.
Aftermarket pedestal Example:
The couple thing I can specify and highly recommend are:
1. New GM lifter buckets
2. Larger Diameter Pushrods
3. New or aftermarket rocker pedestals. The OEM ones will be severely worn and need replacement.
4. I have the LS6 engine and my block is drilled and tapped for the LS6 Chain Dampener. There are now aftermarket companies that remake that discontinued part and there are also companies that produce a timing chain dampener kit that does not need to have the block machined if your block is not equipped with that machined option.
Aftermarket pedestal Example:
Last edited by Bill Curlee; Dec 21, 2023 at 08:53 PM.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 125
Likes: 42
From: US
I have the Caddy Racing Lifters. Most say they are the same lifters as the LS7 type. Mine work excellent and I also run my engine hard.
The couple thing I can specify and highly recommend are:
1. New GM lifter buckets
2. Larger Diameter Pushrods
3. New or aftermarket rocker pedestals. The OEM ones will be severely worn and need replacement.
4. I have the LS6 engine and my block is drilled and tapped for the LS6 Chain Dampener. There are now aftermarket companies that remake that discontinued part and there are also companies that produce a timing chain dampener kit that does not need to have the block machined if your block is not equipped with that machined option.
Aftermarket pedestal Example:
Livernois CNC Rocker Stands for LS Engines (youtube.com)
The couple thing I can specify and highly recommend are:
1. New GM lifter buckets
2. Larger Diameter Pushrods
3. New or aftermarket rocker pedestals. The OEM ones will be severely worn and need replacement.
4. I have the LS6 engine and my block is drilled and tapped for the LS6 Chain Dampener. There are now aftermarket companies that remake that discontinued part and there are also companies that produce a timing chain dampener kit that does not need to have the block machined if your block is not equipped with that machined option.
Aftermarket pedestal Example:
Livernois CNC Rocker Stands for LS Engines (youtube.com)
Now does the extra thickness of these pedestals throw off the geometry of the rockers that much? I purchased new stock rockers with the updated trunnions for this.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 888
Likes: 982
From: NW Burbs of Chi-Town
2025 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
If the block is drilled and tapped for the dampener I used this one on my 98':
https://briantooleyracing.com/rde-ti...rde-62188.html
If you get a new cam retainer get four new tapered screws as the new plates have a chamfer for tapered retainer screws. The original ones on my 98 car where normal bolts with a completely flat plate/square mounting bolt holes.
https://briantooleyracing.com/rde-ti...rde-62188.html
If you get a new cam retainer get four new tapered screws as the new plates have a chamfer for tapered retainer screws. The original ones on my 98 car where normal bolts with a completely flat plate/square mounting bolt holes.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,860
Likes: 4,661
If the block is drilled and tapped for the dampener I used this one on my 98':
https://briantooleyracing.com/rde-ti...rde-62188.html
If you get a new cam retainer get four new tapered screws as the new plates have a chamfer for tapered retainer screws. The original ones on my 98 car where normal bolts with a completely flat plate/square mounting bolt holes.
https://briantooleyracing.com/rde-ti...rde-62188.html
If you get a new cam retainer get four new tapered screws as the new plates have a chamfer for tapered retainer screws. The original ones on my 98 car where normal bolts with a completely flat plate/square mounting bolt holes.
Well, maybe I shouldn't have. My point is that when I needed to remove them for a cam change, they wouldn't budge!! IIRC, it was a Craftsman 5mm Allen bit I twisted off!!! This is a rare case where heating the fastener itself did the trick, as all you would need to do in that case would be to liquefy the Loctite. Sure enough, when the screw came out, blue Loctite was all over the tapered (countersunk) part of the hole......
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 888
Likes: 982
From: NW Burbs of Chi-Town
2025 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I think you're talking about a countersunk hole and flat head screws. When building machinery, we were always told NOT to use Loctite on flat head screws. Reasoning was the large tapered area under the screw head held it from backing out. But I still used removable blue loctite(242?) on the retainer plate screws, training be damned!! Well, maybe I shouldn't have. My point is that when I needed to remove them for a cam change, they wouldn't budge!! IIRC, it was a Craftsman 5mm Allen bit I twisted off!!! This is a rare case where heating the fastener itself did the trick, as all you would need to do in that case would be to liquefy the Loctite. Sure enough, when the screw came out, blue Loctite was all over the tapered (countersunk) part of the hole......
Well, maybe I shouldn't have. My point is that when I needed to remove them for a cam change, they wouldn't budge!! IIRC, it was a Craftsman 5mm Allen bit I twisted off!!! This is a rare case where heating the fastener itself did the trick, as all you would need to do in that case would be to liquefy the Loctite. Sure enough, when the screw came out, blue Loctite was all over the tapered (countersunk) part of the hole......Summit brand plate kit is sent with the flat screws (Should have just bought the kit):
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-150106
Chain side has the countersink/chamfer. Engine side view of the plate.
There is really little force on this plate as a roller cam is ground with flat lobes, but since it seals the galleries going to the lifters... You could have a really bad day if these screws start to walk out. All about attention to details when you are performing engine work.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,860
Likes: 4,661
They discontinued the plain hex bolt retainer plate many years ago. FHCS (Flat Head Cap Screw is the correct terminology) retainer plate has been used since around 2007(?). Be careful torquing the FHCS's to recommended torque-Some well known engine builders, Kurt Urban being one of them, have told me the plates can crack when torqued to the correct value(18lb/ft?).
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,956
Likes: 520
From: Da U.P.
I was gonna chime in here and suggest just that. Whenever my heads come off Johnsons are going in. They seem to be the best bet far as I can tell.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 6,460
Likes: 4,305
From: Florida
2025 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2024 C5 of the Year Winner- Unmodified
2022 C5 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
I have the Caddy Racing Lifters. Most say they are the same lifters as the LS7 type. Mine work excellent and I also run my engine hard.
The couple thing I can specify and highly recommend are:
1. New GM lifter buckets
2. Larger Diameter Pushrods
3. New or aftermarket rocker pedestals. The OEM ones will be severely worn and need replacement.
4. I have the LS6 engine and my block is drilled and tapped for the LS6 Chain Dampener. There are now aftermarket companies that remake that discontinued part and there are also companies that produce a timing chain dampener kit that does not need to have the block machined if your block is not equipped with that machined option.
Aftermarket pedestal Example:
Livernois CNC Rocker Stands for LS Engines (youtube.com)
The couple thing I can specify and highly recommend are:
1. New GM lifter buckets
2. Larger Diameter Pushrods
3. New or aftermarket rocker pedestals. The OEM ones will be severely worn and need replacement.
4. I have the LS6 engine and my block is drilled and tapped for the LS6 Chain Dampener. There are now aftermarket companies that remake that discontinued part and there are also companies that produce a timing chain dampener kit that does not need to have the block machined if your block is not equipped with that machined option.
Aftermarket pedestal Example:
Livernois CNC Rocker Stands for LS Engines (youtube.com)
Did I miss something here? 😳
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
I have to agree with you. I have done numerous valve train repairs and projects and have never replaced any rocker bolts. TTY bolts will specify an initial torque spec and then a specific number of degrees the bolt must be rotated after the torque spec to acquire the proper bolt stretch to apply the correct torque on the joint. Manual just says 22 ft/lbs!
Hell, The rocker bolts will strip out of the head easy enough if you install them correctly let alone trying to stretch them to get them tight!
Hell, The rocker bolts will strip out of the head easy enough if you install them correctly let alone trying to stretch them to get them tight!
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,860
Likes: 4,661
IIRC, the rocker bolts are 12.9 series bolts, i.e.-very hard, and very tough. They couldnt be TTY, as stated. Because not only is there no angle spec'd, they would also break, or strip the aluminum threads, before they'd yield....
Last edited by grinder11; Jan 6, 2024 at 09:34 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 125
Likes: 42
From: US
I didn't think about the Rocker pedestals. I did get the LS6 dampener and I think the blocks from 2001 are drilled and tapped for it.
Now does the extra thickness of these pedestals throw off the geometry of the rockers that much? I purchased new stock rockers with the updated trunnions for this.
Now does the extra thickness of these pedestals throw off the geometry of the rockers that much? I purchased new stock rockers with the updated trunnions for this.