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I believe you can get real close to 600 @ the wheels with
Mid-Length Runners in your Fast &
Cam Motion Low Lash Solid Roller (LLR) something like ~ 246*/258* ~.670"/.650" 114*+3*
For comparison my LS3 Based 393" (Big Bore)
made 690 @ 7100-7300 on the Westech Dyno (crank) with a 102 TB
made 590+ @ 6800-7000 on a hub dyno with 90 mm ls 2 tb & 2 1/2" exhaust after the cat X pipe.
Mid-Length Runner Fast, 11.7:1 comp, 243*/249* .670"/.650" 115*+3* ARH 1 7/8" LTs
With more cubes, more comp. & gears (3.90s vs 3.42s) you can afford to give up a little low end
of the standard-length runners Vs a +300-500 rpm peak and carry with the mid-lengths.
My stroke is 3.600" so your piston speed is +10% @ the same rpm.
Just my .02
New crank will be 24 tooth so all will be compatible. Otherwise, lingenfelter box would be needed but wanted to avoid that. Also - shooting for 550+ whp as a goal.
Makes sense about the reluctor wheel. Isn't one car speed density and the LS3 MAF? It's doable but I think its more than the reluctor wheel.
I believe you can get real close to 600 @ the wheels with
Mid-Length Runners in your Fast &
Cam Motion Low Lash Solid Roller (LLR) something like ~ 246*/258* ~.670"/.650" 114*+3*
For comparison my LS3 Based 393" (Big Bore)
made 690 @ 7100-7300 on the Westech Dyno (crank) with a 102 TB
made 590+ @ 6800-7000 on a hub dyno with 90 mm ls 2 tb & 2 1/2" exhaust after the cat X pipe.
Mid-Length Runner Fast, 11.7:1 comp, 243*/249* .670"/.650" 115*+3* ARH 1 7/8" LTs
With more cubes, more comp. & gears (3.90s vs 3.42s) you can afford to give up a little low end
of the standard-length runners Vs a +300-500 rpm peak and carry with the mid-lengths.
My stroke is 3.600" so your piston speed is +10% @ the same rpm.
Just my .02
These are good points. I notice your combination was a bog bore. Was the stroke stock? Some rod and piston combos can pull the pistons too far down in the sleeves and cause issues on 4" strokes combos. I agree with 600 wheel is possible with proper cam and compression. I'd look to bump up compression and run ethanol fuel if it's readily available where OP lives.
These are good points. I notice your combination was a bog bore. Was the stroke stock? Some rod and piston combos can pull the pistons too far down in the sleeves and cause issues on 4" strokes combos. I agree with 600 wheel is possible with proper cam and compression. I'd look to bump up compression and run ethanol fuel if it's readily available where OP lives.
550 is a conservative goal - I would imagine 600 wheel is doable. comp will be 12:1 and looking to run 93 only. E is not readily available around here or I would consider it. I had it on my last car and it was a pain in the azz to deal with. I had to keep a mini gas station in my garage. Closest pumps were 45 miles away and I'd burn almost a 1/4 tank just getting home. Took my DD and 6-8 5 gallon cans and filled up that way. I really wanted this to be a cube based car I could drive anywhere. Also - at 600 wheel, going to e would mean that stock fuel system is in need of upgrade. More money in the build. If stock fueling can support my goals, I'm happy.
I'm digging the evolution here. Upped compression, good cfm, moderate RPM, NA, 3.90s. My only question is if the car still has the Z tight ratio box or not because that for me would push it a bit beyond. I've done in the past a 7400 rpm 430rw build with 4.10s (F-body) but on the basic M6 gear pattern and it was a go-kart on the street with 315s and good suspension. Adding 100+ rw to that setup will be a hoot in the hills and rocking stoplight to stoplight. The next town over is going to hear you a-comin'!
I'm digging the evolution here. Upped compression, good cfm, moderate RPM, NA, 3.90s. My only question is if the car still has the Z tight ratio box or not because that for me would push it a bit beyond. I've done in the past a 7400 rpm 430rw build with 4.10s (F-body) but on the basic M6 gear pattern and it was a go-kart on the street with 315s and good suspension. Adding 100+ rw to that setup will be a hoot in the hills and rocking stoplight to stoplight. The next town over is going to hear you a-comin'!
stock transmission for now. clutch will get an upgrade to a monster twin when pulled. I'll live with it until it explodes and figure out what's next when/if that time comes. I would like a regear but not going down that road until I'm forced to.
Two paths to travel there. Pop it and rebuild at high expense. Or hunt a deal on a clean one to swap and sell yours while it works. This can be a flat deal, or it can be slight cost to upgrade to C6Z 6060 and diff. You already know the T56 and 6060 on their own can take a lot more than the power you'll be making as long as you shift clean. The C5 diff might be the weak point overall where the C6Z is beefy and in stock form accepts up to 900 as long as you're not digging from 6k on a prepped surface with DRs - even then it would be the half shafts to exist moreso than the diff. Hardened output shafts is about all a C6Z piece requires. The C5Z trans/diff will command an easy sale as guys seek the tight ratio out. Finding a good C6 donor can be the slow part. A call to vendors like Jason at Texas Drivetrain or the RKT or RPM guys might connect you with some leads or parts bin units they have on the shelf.
Update for tracking purposes. Heads went back to the machine shop to shave a little more off the bottom due to piston size to achieve desired compression.
Block is getting final hone next week.
Crank and other bottom end stuff is in the garage waiting for next step.
Consider the cooling plan for oil and water.
I ended up with the Dewitt’s radiator w/SPAL kit and the integrated oil cooler, it was a good value but there were issues getting the right operating oil temp that Dewitt’s helped us resolve (below is from my builder AHP). We ended up adding a modified c6 zo6 oil cooler as well. So far, so good in the LA heat.
“The oil thermostat is part of the block adapert you provided with the lines that go to the Dewitts radiator. Something on that does not appear to be working correctly as the oil temp gets up there quick but levels off like the T stat opens way late or the temp sending unit is not reading correctly”
Consider the cooling plan for oil and water.
I ended up with the Dewitt’s radiator w/SPAL kit and the integrated oil cooler, it was a good value but there were issues getting the right operating oil temp that Dewitt’s helped us resolve (below is from my builder AHP). We ended up adding a modified c6 zo6 oil cooler as well. So far, so good in the LA heat.
“The oil thermostat is part of the block adapert you provided with the lines that go to the Dewitts radiator. Something on that does not appear to be working correctly as the oil temp gets up there quick but levels off like the T stat opens way late or the temp sending unit is not reading correctly”
That is something I planned on discussing with the builder. In VA so we definitely get hot during the summer. A 434 at 600+ wheel and 4.10s has to be wild. Any links to your build or videos on it? Even run it 1/4 or 60-130?
It’s a very mean machine. Here is a link to my 434 “sleeved angle” engine build and announcement, we did update with a new less rowdy cam about a year after the build.You are gonna have a lot of fun when you are done with your car man.
Block has been picked up from the machine shop, all is looking good.
Couple more parts to order and I'll be scheduling a time to swap it all in. Hoping to have it running by Thanksgiving.
Setup is looking good. What did you pick for a cam? I may have missed it already. The long or mid runners will be a good option for this setup. Just give it some good lift and rpm and the heads will work well. You shouldn't have any issue being on the top end of your whp goal. (Probably 580-600 easily)
I'm digging the evolution here. Upped compression, good cfm, moderate RPM, NA, 3.90s. My only question is if the car still has the Z tight ratio box or not because that for me would push it a bit beyond. I've done in the past a 7400 rpm 430rw build with 4.10s (F-body) but on the basic M6 gear pattern and it was a go-kart on the street with 315s and good suspension. Adding 100+ rw to that setup will be a hoot in the hills and rocking stoplight to stoplight. The next town over is going to hear you a-comin'!
Mine is still going to have the 2.97 gear ratio with the 3.90. But everything will work well with the low ram combo and the fact that I will give it as much rpm as it wants lol.
Welp - several setbacks have pushed this out way longer than I ever anticipated. It's finally in the car, should be getting tuned early next week and then ready to get through the break-in. Quick video of it idling. Ended up at 417 cubes, right at 12:1. WAY over budget, list of misery goes on but.... hoping it's all worth it once I get behind the wheel.
