Feedback would be greatly appreciated, as I'm at a bit of a loss.

I have a 2001 coupe that I bought with ~18k miles. Besides the standard electrical gremlins, the car has been rock solid, and it's been my daily driver in MI (winter included).

Although I fixed most of the electrical issues, I had a faulty oil sensor and foolishly delayed its repair. Despite dipstick checks and regular oil changes, in a very short time frame I managed to burn through my oil (without realizing), and now I have a rod knocking (currently ~50k miles).

I've been quoted ~$10k for a rebuild, and had another shop recommend I sell it as a rolling chassis.

I cannot afford a crate engine at this time, and I'm skeptical that a used LS1 would be an upgrade over a rebuild (despite similar costs).

Before the engine failure, I had planned to eventually install a new cam, headers, forged internals, etc. (phase 1) to accommodate nitrous (phase 2) and a future supercharger (phase 3). I'm wondering now would be a good opportunity to perform this work (phase 1), while the engine is disassembled -- but if this is foolish, and I'm just a well-off waiting for these upgrades, please keep me honest.

I don't have a machine shop, but I would be willing to invest this time this winter to do the work myself, and then outsource components that require a specialist; however, this might be a fool's errand, as I'm willing, but not an experienced engine builder.

Upswing: I would love to repair the car in a way that's as cost-effective as possible (bearing in mind my future upgrade plans); however, I don't want to embark on a journey where there's no win / only frustration.

This communities' thoughts would be tremendously helpful, as I seek to navigate next steps. Obviously, this was a preventable problem and I only have myself to blame, so your candid advice on solutions is very valuable.

Thanks in advance.

 

I smoked my first modified (heads / cam) engine in my '99 coupe racing a GSXR 750 back in 2007. Blew the #7 piston to smithereens. I opted to have a machine shop (LRB Performance) do a full rebuild with forged internals. Prices at the time were much different. I was about $6k all in on parts and labor. Rebuilding with forged internals was the way to go for me. Now the car is heads/cam/forged/ supercharged.

Swap options arent going to be forged engines. Which is ideal if forced induction is on the menu. So, other than a crate engine (which you said isn't in the cards) a rebuild with forged internals makes the most sense. As long as a reputable shop does the work and a warranty is included it's the smart and more cost effective route. Especially when you DIY the R&R of the engine.

 

You'll likely get a few "I'd buy a $500 junkyard 5.3 and supercharge it responses" as a more cost effective route. Which is true, but that isn't the route I'd go for a few reasons in my C5. Some other roller, sure. But not the car I enjoy owning this much. Especially if I ever wanted to sell it. As a buyer my first thoughts on a C5 with a junkyard 5.3 is...this owner is broke and if he skimped on a proper rebuild when he mistreated and blew up his LS1 or LS6 he likely took **** care of the rest of the car. So, unless I was paying peanuts and acorns for it I'm buying something else with my money.

 

You mention multiple times that cost effective and affordability are concerns.
If your goal today is have a running car that you can proceed to upgrade with your phase I, II, and III stages someday I think it makes the most financial sense to rebuild with phase I now. You're tearing the whole engine apart for phase I anyway, if you rebuild now and don't do phase I you'll be repeating the labor of engine removal, disassembly, reassembly, and replacement.

You also mention you're not an experience engine builder. I am not either. I don't know that nitrous and a supercharger work well together. I would investigate that and discuss with more knowledgeable people based on your planned usage for the future.

Your subject also mentions moving on. The FS section has an 01 that seems close to what you want but imo way overpriced. Look around for a bit. Modified cars do come up for sale now and then, you can buy someone else's problem and spend to maintain that instead of your own.

 

Thanks for the feedback / insight!

Already a lot of great responses which are very helpful.

Sounds like an engine rebuild is the route I’ll likely pursue. Given my nitrous / forced induction future roadmap, should I expect to salvage my LS1 block, or should I try to target a LS6 or LQ9?

Does anyone recommend any rebuilders in the Detroit metro?

Does anyone have any recent rebuild estimates, re: cost? Does $10k sound accurate? It was higher than I expected, but inflation is getting everything nowadays lol

 

Is the $10k quote including forged the internals that are part of your plans? Or is it $10k for a stock rebuild?

If it's $10k for a stock rebuild, then you can do better, much better. You can get a brand new LS3 crate motor from GM for about $6500 to your door. Keep that in mind as measuring stick.

You have a lot of paths you can take here, which is awesome. If you start with a firm budget, and have a firm end goal here, we can give you some specific recommendations. How much are you capable of doing the labor? Bolting on heads and cam is one thing, assembling the rotating assembly is another, with more specialized tools.

 

Much appreciated!!

as much as I’d like to jump the shark, realistically, I won’t be able to spend more than $10k.

I plan on having this car indefinitely, so I want to make sure I’m not cutting corners and creating new headaches for future me, so I’m planning on spending at least $5k.

Im pretty confident doing the labor that DOESN'T involve machining or special calibration. This winter I’ll have more time than money lol, so if I can save money doing some of the work myself, I’m down!

I’d like to make the engine as ‘bulletproof’ as possible, as I’d like to have nitrous installed as ‘phase 2’ and a supercharger for ‘phase 3’ (both tbd future projects), and I don’t want to blow anything and restart the process.

while the engine is out, I might put in a remote bleeder for the transmission and fix the leaky butt, but I’m considering that a separate project/expense.

i assume I should go with forged internals/cam swap/headers during the rebuild, but I’m far from an expert, so any/all advice is tremendously valuable!

 

If you don't have to deal with smog - swapping to an LS3 crate engine is by far your best option.
You can buy the whole 480HP Crate engine for $10K. All fun a few hundred dollars for harness's to make it work with the factory harness and a custom ECM tune when you are done.
Compared to rebuilding an LS1 - this is probably cheaper, and is a much stronger platform.

Info on the swap
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ge...han-you-think/

If I didn't have to deal with goddamned CA smog, I would have gone this way long ago.

 

Fortunately, I don’t have to worry about CA/smog standards in MI, so this is a good call out!

I had a couple of buddies float this option, and I could potentially swing the funds to land the crate engine you linked - far more reasonably priced than other results I was finding!

what’s the typical horsepower ceiling for these LS3s? I know the one you linked isn’t stock. Would a potential supercharger/nitrous combo in the 750-800hp range risk blowing something?

Would I need to do any other upgrades, or could I call I put the LS3 in and call it a day (before phase 2 / phase 3)?

Assuming the latter, do you think this is something I could do myself in my garage (with sufficient time/patience)?

obviously, I would need to purchase the associated electronics adaptors, and take it to a tuner immediately after the swap, but it seems like that could be manageable.

please correct me if there’s anything I’m missing or misunderstanding!

 

Sorry but I have to ask. Instead of buying a nice low mile vette, why not just be a high-mile car ? Especially if you were going drive it in the winter and not maintain the basic functional needs. Such a shame.

 

It sounds like you're budget conscious so rebuild your LS1 with a few mods such as a cam, head swap (if the finances allow) headers and a nice tune. Save the supercharger and nitrous kits for the experienced fellows with deep pockets. Learn to walk before you run as us old guys say. I love my LS3 crate but I think it might bust your budget and since they're not forged, high boost or NOS are not great ideas for longevity. Maybe save some coin for a winter p/u truck that can do double-duty as a parts hauler/chaser. Good luck and enjoy the learning experience.

 

I like rebuilding the LS1 as well if you have access to a quality and reasonable shop. An engine shop would hone the bores out .005". In parts, you would be able to get a forged rotating assembly, cam, CNC ported 243 assembled heads, lifters, pushrods, full gasket kit, harmonic balancer for about $6k. Let the engine machine shop put it together. A lot of your current parts can be reused (intake manifold, injectors, throttle, oil pan, timing cover, all sensors, etc...). You'll make plenty of power for a street car. If you are dead set on pushing it more with boost and nitrous, at least now all your internals are set. You'll just be upgrading injectors and intake components.

I was just in a similar position, needed to replace my engine, but mine wasn't rebuildable. Engine failure took the block with it. I'm getting a LS1/6 short block built with forged internals and mild cam. My factory 243 heads got rebuilt by a local machine shop. I'm staying NA, and don't want big power. What I really was set on though was to stay with the original DNA of the car as much as possible, so LS3, L33 5.3, or anything else was ruled out. All legit and some better options. Just not what I wanted.

There is literally 100 different routes you can go. Take your time, do the research, and figure out what your not willing to compromise on.

 

If it's about budget, but also wanting to do upgrades, if it were me, I'd pull the motor, tear it down and see what the damage is. Is the damage limited to the rod, or did it smoke the crank also, big questions. If crank is OK, bores look OK, clean the block, then just upgrade rods and pistons, gap rings for boost, balance crank and reassemble. That's best case scenario for you. Add Heads/cam/intake (headers too?) and all seals and bearings and you might be all in for $5k-$8k depending on what parts you are buying. But all hinges on your block being rebuildable, what parts you are using, and how much machine work it'd need.

It's tough to write out all the different possible scenarios and options you have because there are so many. But if you're serious about big boost in the future, you're gonna have to Buy Once and Cry Once.

 

The LS3 I posted is a GM crate engine, basically the engine from a 2006 Corvette with a little more cam; - they are pretty tough. The LS3 top end is superior to the cathedral port stuff that came on the LS1/6 in every way. Lots of folks have thrown an A&A supercharger on top of these and lived for years trouble free

I do have to say...
If you are having trouble mustering $10K for the engine, unless something major in you financial life is going to change, forget the 850HP build. There is a lot of other stuff you have to do to make the car survive those power ranges (transmission upgrade, torque tube upgrade, cooling system, axles...). IMHO anything over 600HP (probably less, if we're being honest) isn't actually usable on a street car. There's a reason that the SCCA classes the C5/C6/C7 Z06's together in Solo II, despite a 200 Horsepower delta between the cars. You clearly love you car, that's great. Get it back on the road, than spend some time on driving skills (ie Auto-X) you'll learn that horsepower isn't as important as you think. One of the most fun car's I've ever owned was a 1983 VW GTI with under 90 horsepower.

 

This is very helpful - appreciate the insight!!

I think this is the route I'll likely go - I'm in the process of getting a 'dad car' that's able to accommodate car seats, so I have some time to lick my wounds / finalize next steps.

Curious, given your research what you think of getting an LQ9 block. I know it messes with the weight ratio, but I like the idea of getting an iron block (although I'll probably go with the LS1 block assuming it's salvageable).

 

Great points/insight -- the 'Buy Once and Cry Once' is going to be my mantra for this project haha

Would you recommend a certain order of operations for this legwork? I'm trying to track down some options for reputable engine builders in SE MI -- I'm sure I can find some, but understandably, the reputable guys don't want to give a quote until everything's disassembled.

Do you think it's worth the potential savings to remove the engine myself and reinstall it after it's built? Or would you say I'm better off towing it to someone to do everything, and just bite the bullet/roll the dice with the associated cost?

I'm not an expert, but the oil burning happened so rapidly (and I drove the car ~15 minutes after the knocking started), so I'm GUESSING the damage isn't extensive, but of course that could be completely off-base.

Curious what your thoughts are, if the worse is true and my block is toast. Should I get an LQ9 and make sure I get the toughest block possible? Or is that not really an issue unless I'm looking to push 1k hp? (which I'm not)

 

This is great insight, and I really appreciate the candor -- exactly the type of substantive wisdom I was hoping for when posting here!

At the risk of over-disclosing, I'm in a bit of a unique financial situation at the moment (that I BELEIVE -- fingers-crossed -- is temporary). In short, I bought my first house this year, switched jobs, and am in the process of getting a 'dad car' (thinking ~$15k CPO Kia) as my wife and I are expecting our first baby!

Because of all this, I don't have much liquid cash, but fortunately, my wife and I don't have any other notable purchases/expenses on our roadmap (beyond retirement savings, the boy's college funds, etc.), so I expect things to stabilize in the near future (knock on wood).

I plan on having this car indefinitely, so worst-case, I can keep it in the garage while I gather the necessary funds -- I just want to make sure I learn from my mistake that prompted my current situation, and do things right the first time!

That said, you bring up a great point about the car being 'streetable' -- do you think that a supercharged LS1/LS3 would fit the bill? I definitely intend to continue using it as my daily driver once I get it driving again.
I'm interested in nitrous for (rare) occasions like track days / high-speed runs, but want to make sure I don't blow the engine with its use, so I'm including its use in the high-end HP considerations just to be safe (even though it will be a rare occurrence).

Thanks again for the assistance; extremely helpful/appreciated!

 

Tough to answer, I don't know what your mechanical aptitude is, what tools you possess, what research you have done etc. Paying shop rates to swap motors, store cars, etc I would imagine would eat your budget away quickly.

Judging by your questions and answers in this thread, my official recommendation has two options. 1. Purchase a crate motor, and swap out your broken one. Do the work yourself to save money, buy/borrow/barter for the tools and manpower you need to get this done. Youtube and this forum is a goldmine for information on how to do it.

2. Sell your car as is. This one hurts to think about, but think it through. Sell your car as a roller, and put that money toward another C5, perhaps one with mods you're already looking for. You won't need to buy any special tools, and it's possible you will even end up financially better than any other option.

My thoughts on an LQ9, or any other used motor, circle back back to my original thought. You're gonna have to tear it down and inspect its guts, at least I would. So it could be a cheap and solid upgrade, or a money pit. I personally don't favor iron blocks for modern Corvettes because I believe it goes against the design of the car, which is to be light weight, quick and nimble, and handle a road a course. I have full respect for guys that make their Corvettes into straight line drag cars, but in my opinion, that's the not the intent of the chassis. But if you're not into road courses, and just want to rule the street and the occasional drag strip night, there's nothing wrong with an LQ9 as your vessel to achieve your goals.

Congrats to you for expecting a first child! It's one of the most rewarding, but also most expensive experiences of your life. I'm not going to get into all the details of what to expect when you're expecting, but I'd urge you to sort the car out before your kids arrival.

 

Ah - you do have a major financial change coming... not the way you think.
My best advice here, is to do the LS3 swap, get the car running and wait for the dust to settle. You can always add a supercharger later. You have no idea how expensive kids are... I'm not saying that in a condescending tone, but in a 'I found out the hard way' tone.