FLP header dyno results
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 644
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From: st. cloud mn
Re: FLP header dyno results (LG Motorsports)
Lou, no disrespect but the forum does not give us vette owners an opportunity to provide mod results in a formatted fashion. You know more than I will ever, but it is hard to really attribute certain results from certain mods because we buy mods and don't pay for a dyno run after each installation....the tuners make this cost prohibitive and thats not to say a dyno machine is cheap but most people do these mods in a manner that is cost effective. The tuners like yourself should do the dyno runs and everyone will know roughly what to expect out of each mod...just an idea from a very new corvette owner.
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Dallas Tx
St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Re: FLP header dyno results (camiv)
Hi Cam,
I agree with you and I think Jon has done a very good thing. I just wanted to point out that the 10rwhp from LS1edit is another test, and therefore, cannot be claimed by the header install, since the same 10rwhp probably could have been attained even before the header install with LS1 edit.
I was just trying to point out that it should not have been included in the header install.
The reason I point this out is that Jon (jmx) have discussed an install article on the installation of my LG Long Tubes. If he does this, then my headers will not start from the same 10hp lower baseline, but rather they will start from the new higher baseline. That would be an LS1edit tuned C5.
Your point about the tuners doing the dyno runs is valid, except when I did them, along with Katech, and others, our numbers were deemed "skewed" because of a conflict of interest. And in many cases that does happen, but not at LGM.
In addition, if my sales are going to be affected by a test, It is my duty to see that the test is correct. And to tune a car after a part change, rather than before, does indeed skew the results.
Thanks
Lou G
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,081
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From: Mississauga ONTARIO
Re: FLP header dyno results (LG Motorsports)
One of my concerns is that the benefit of the LS1edit fixed your tuning deficiencies and added 10rwhp to the test, but should not be attributed to the header increase.
I know this is on the edge of "political correctness", but I would say that you would have gotten 10rwhp from LS1edit tuning with or without the headers, and by doing the tuning after the header install, is being slightly misleading.
I know this is on the edge of "political correctness", but I would say that you would have gotten 10rwhp from LS1edit tuning with or without the headers, and by doing the tuning after the header install, is being slightly misleading.
i dont think jmX was misleading whole heartedly... i can see your point though, based on the TITLE of his thread, and then posting his FINAL results.
You got 17 rwhp with the FLP header installation. And would you say that you could have gotten 10rwhp out of LS1edit regardless of when you tuned it, either before or after the header install?
unlike others who claimed less peak value gains with before and after results on your headers...
from his graph, he looked like he gained atleast 20rwhp and 30 rwtq, just from the FLPs BEFORE tuning in the heart of his powerband ....
[Modified by johnnyC5, 11:43 PM 3/4/2003]
Pro
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 644
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From: st. cloud mn
Re: FLP header dyno results (LG Motorsports)
Its too bad that people can't trust what you say. You and your company have a very good reputation and if I did not live in the north I would probably be doing business you. I just did not want the mans good work and mods to go un-noticed and you addressed this. I can't believe that people fight over which header provides an xtra horsepower or two but I guess these are fair topics for the forum. The reality is from forum research the long tube headers add from 14-22 rwhp depending on the size of the tubes. If your motor has 500 or 600 hp than you need bigger headers with a bigger collector....This should be standard knowledge and if people/vendors exagerate there numbers for a sale than shame on them. I find the number to be less relevent than the fact that it is a performance mod that adds performance..plain and simple. Take care!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,818
Likes: 3
From: SoCal
Re: FLP header dyno results (camiv)
Lou, I agree that I could have gotten the 10rwhp BEFORE headers because I got just as much knock retard before and after the FLP install. The tuning was the same before and after headers, and thats why I provided the graph with all three lines......stock, headers, and headers AND tuning. I meant to call the subject "FLP and tuning results" but I guess it was late when I made the post and I forgot. I think the graph makes it clear which gains came from where.
The real test is how the car with FLPs and tuning compares to the car with LG's and tuning, and that test will still show which headers make the most power, and what RPM's. The comparison against untuned-stock manifolds is a bit less important, most people wanna know how LG stacks up against the competition more than how much it stacks up against the stock stuff.
BTW, the FLP ground clearance is pretty bad due to the V-clamps. If I do go with another set of headers ground clearance differences will be something I report on. Its a big issue with my car, and ranks up there in importance. Maybe the new LG headers without vclamps will have more clearance, I dunno.
The real test is how the car with FLPs and tuning compares to the car with LG's and tuning, and that test will still show which headers make the most power, and what RPM's. The comparison against untuned-stock manifolds is a bit less important, most people wanna know how LG stacks up against the competition more than how much it stacks up against the stock stuff.
BTW, the FLP ground clearance is pretty bad due to the V-clamps. If I do go with another set of headers ground clearance differences will be something I report on. Its a big issue with my car, and ranks up there in importance. Maybe the new LG headers without vclamps will have more clearance, I dunno.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,922
Likes: 0
From: Boulder, Colorado
Re: FLP header dyno results (LG Motorsports)
The reason I point this out is that Jon (jmx) have discussed an install article on the installation of my LG Long Tubes. If he does this, then my headers will not start from the same 10hp lower baseline, but rather they will start from the new higher baseline. That would be an LS1edit tuned C5.
I'd be more interested in comparing numbers after tuning is done specifically for the LGM headers, though. When I put my Stainless Works headers on, my A/F ratio dropped to about 11.5:1, before I got tuning done. IMHO, the car should be properly tuned before and after a mod is installed, to see how much a mod is worth. Otherwise you'll get things like changing an air filter cause an increase in HP, just because the car was too rich before and the filter makes it run leaner.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,818
Likes: 3
From: SoCal
Re: FLP header dyno results (Miles in Michigan)
The answer is that I'd dyno FLP's tuned to this A/F ratio, then I'd dyno LG's tuned to this A/F ratio, both tunes will keep the same timing. People wanna know how headers stack up against each other more than they care how they stack up against a stock manifold.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,096
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From: Size Does Matter CA
Re: FLP header dyno results (jmX)
BTW, the FLP ground clearance is pretty bad due to the V-clamps. If I do go with another set of headers ground clearance differences will be something I report on. Its a big issue with my car, and ranks up there in importance. Maybe the new LG headers without vclamps will have more clearance, I dunno.
Great numbers though :thumbs:
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,818
Likes: 3
From: SoCal
Re: FLP header dyno results (johnnyC5)
TTS longtubes are of little concern to people like me tho, because I dont have a welder in my garage. I want something I can install myself in a few hours and go out and enjoy it. If I have to pay a shop to weld, it either means I gotta pay them to do the whole install, or I do all I can and then drive open header to a shop. Either option sucks to me.
That leaves LG and FLP. Both are self installable without the need for cutting or welding. I can pull my car in, get out a few sockets and a wrench, and drive out a few hours later with no professional help or welding needed. BIG PLUS imo, and offsets the cost since you dont have to pay for labor.
So, between FLP and LG, the FLP's right now have the best ground clearance (by a little bit), but the new LG's coming out very soon may fix that issue totally by using a different style connection, which would be great as it'd lower the cost while increasing the ground clearance. We shall see. :)
That leaves LG and FLP. Both are self installable without the need for cutting or welding. I can pull my car in, get out a few sockets and a wrench, and drive out a few hours later with no professional help or welding needed. BIG PLUS imo, and offsets the cost since you dont have to pay for labor.
So, between FLP and LG, the FLP's right now have the best ground clearance (by a little bit), but the new LG's coming out very soon may fix that issue totally by using a different style connection, which would be great as it'd lower the cost while increasing the ground clearance. We shall see. :)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 0
From: Mississauga ONTARIO
Re: FLP header dyno results (jmX)
TTS longtubes are of little concern to people like me tho, because I dont have a welder in my garage. I want something I can install myself in a few hours and go out and enjoy it. If I have to pay a shop to weld, it either means I gotta pay them to do the whole install, or I do all I can and then drive open header to a shop. Either option sucks to me.
for do-it-yourselfers, i agree with you.... TTS are not "user-friendly" as the FLPs or LGs.
should be interesting to see what the new LGs will be like, in terms of clearance, power, quality.... and .... PRICE
hi Lou :seeya :D
