Guys & Ladies,

I am a Vette newbie, engineering degrees--ME/EE, but work in a field with no application to my education. Bottom line, no credentials; except for 17 years spent motorcycling, of which the past 9 years have been spent racing/tuning sportbikes ("street racing" & CMRA 600cc/750cc class). Never been a great racer, but a good rider and tuner.

Regarding "Ram Air". Here are my understandings--let me know your thoughts as I'm trying to learn as I tweak my 00 C5 FRC:

1. I'm leaning toward Donaldson Blackwing. Why? I think the Donaldson filter is better at removing dirt than K & N while providing better airflow than paper. I also believe that it is a "safer" choice for a daily driver that may encounter heavy rain on occasion. I live in the DFW TX area where heavy downpours happen on occasion.

2. From motorcycling, I don't believe that most airboxes are sealed well enough to build enough pressure to make a big difference. Sport Rider (tm), did a test of factory sealed ram air tubes on a large number of sportbikes a couple of years ago and found that most leak so much air that a positive pressure differential (ram air) was rarely achieved. Only approx 3 bikes actually generated a positive effect (above 60 mph in 2 Kawasakis, and above 120 in another bike). The others had too many air leaks to make a differerence.

3. Mind you in motorcycles, there is no hot underhood air, and ram air tube sealing to the airbox "should" be straightforward.

4. That said, from those who own them, 2 questions--1. Is the Vararam or Breathless Vortex sealed well enough to deliver positive airbox pressure at highway speeds of 65-75 plus mph 2. Do you drive those cars in a steady downpour of rain. I'm not talking about deep standing water, but just driving on the city streets/highway.

5. Since I'm interested in the Blackwing, for those of you who actually have it--does it work well for a daily driver (sun, rain, car washes, etc). I don't want to suck too much water into my intake. I know hydrolock is rare, but don't want to risk it.

6. Seat of the pants (SOTP) do you notice a difference with the Blackwing? I'll just stay stock or drill my airbox if the difference between Blackwing and modded factory airbox are negligible.

To all, thanks for your experience. I'd like to make a few mods beyond the B&B Exhaust; however, feel like I've got good power so far. When I have the need for speed, I do two wheels--Aprilia Mille R & Yamaha YZF-R1, real performance machines. I do like a fast car, but don't want to make mods that don't help. I've done that enough over the years with bikes :)

Regards,

Karl :flag

 

I can tell you for a fact that at the track, once mine and an almost identical setup car hit the 1/8th, I pulled due to the vortex setup, over his setup :)

and as for rain, not that I make it a habit, but yes, no issues so far, that said, it's obviously gonna be more susceptible and I'm not goin' puddle divin' anytime soon ;) :cheers:

 

My profession is motorcycle engines in some form of small car, ie SCCA, mini sprints, or something of that nature. There is a big secret out there about ram air.......no matter how fast you go, how fast the engine is turning, with a perfectly sealed box. 1/2" of water is the only amount of positive pressure possible without causing the air to stack up and spill out the opening. Take a look at how small the openings are on an IRL or Forumula 1 car these days.

 

Mean Green 2000- You said you pulled against a very similar vette starting at the 1/8th because of your vortex. What kind of intake did the other guy have? I have a 02 automatic vette w/ exhaust and my best time is only a 13.24. What intake do you think will get me the best increase in time in the 1/4 mile. I see that your best is a 12.4. Any suggestions on what i should do to get a low time like that? Thanks. - Jeremy


[Modified by JDR02Vette, 5:20 AM 3/25/2003]

 

I tested them all!!!!! Go on the Breathless Website and see my results - I got the best results for my setup at that time with the Breathless Rammer!!!

JR :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

Thank you for the advice. I am going to check the website and i will probably go with the vortex. If i go with the vortex, what is something else i could add along with it to improve my 1/4 mile time?

 

When you go on the Breathless site you will see my 1/4 mi times as I added bolt on mods.

JR :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

I have a Vortex Rammer induction and drove from Tucson to Chicago last year and drove thru a steady rain in all of New Mexico, Texas and Oklahoma.
No problems at all.

 

RAM air is a myth*--cold air is readily available, and its the cold air that most people feel when they actually say RAM air.

*Above 150 MPH there might be enough RAM effect to gain 10 HP maybe 20 if you are really good and really clever. At 75 MPH this drops to about 2 HP.

 

Check out KEWLBRZ site info http://www.vetteguru.com/ramair/
Excellent reading! :thumbs: :cheers:

 

I believe that any aftermarket air intake system is beneficial. Make it breathe in and out and you will notice the difference.

I have the Vararam system, and I am happy with it. I have driven in several storms of varying intensities and several hundred miles at a time with no adverse effects. I do try to limit my heavy foot during heavy downpours and try to remain constant. So far , so good.

I do have to clean my filter about every 2k, but that is no problem.

Vararam says that there is a 2 - 1 boost ratio @ sea level with normal humidity.

I like the idea of drawing air from outside of the car, not from under the hood.

Almost all of the aftermarket systems have good attributes of some kind.

Good luck.

 

I tested my Z06 against another Z06. His with a Vararam, mine with the stock airbox with the lid off, and filter tie wrapped in place. We made the same corrected HP, 372rwhp (15HP over stock), and we have run similar times at the track. With that said, I don't believe in Ram-air. But I do believe in cold air. SO, I thing the Vararam and others that duct in cool air probably have some benefits.

 

While I rarely agree with Mitch, :D I agree on this one. I doubt very seriously that you would see positive pressure in the air intake. But, there is no doubt that you will benefit from a cold air intake. They are well worth the money. Of all the minor bolt ons, they are the most effective. Before I installed my TRIC, I frequently ran the motor up to redline in first and 2nd gear during my regular, Italian tune ups (basically every time I drive it). Anyone that does this on a regular basis, knows just when to shift, by "feel", to avoid hitting the rev limiter. When I installed my TRIC, I hit the rev limiter several times because the motor breathed so much better at higher RPM. I had to subsequently "re-calibrate" my P.I.D. shift control loop ;) . I am a degreed engineer too, and as such I am extremely skeptical about HP adders. Cold air intakes work. My best time before the TRIC was 13.2 @ 108. See my sig. I have driven through a few downpours w/ no problem but I would definitely avoid any standing water. :flag


[Modified by need-for-speed, 8:05 PM 3/25/2003]

 

Kewl,
Well said.

 

VRam here & she goes out in the rain.

I did take a Dremel to the drain holes to make sure the sides/edges were smooth, so as not to impede water flow.

 

I also bought a vararam because I think the best place to pull air from is outside the car. I didnt want the vortex because I think it might pull hot air off the radiator while stopped.

Go with whatever you think is best. I dont buy the ram air argument, but cold air works.

Eric

 

Guys & Ladies,

Thanks from the many responses. From your experience, and particularly the link to "ram air" from Too Many IDs; I cemented my belief. More cold air, open air is better, but ram air is marketing for cars as for motorcycles.

Based on the rain variable, I'll probably go with Blackwing since I like the Donaldson filter better (think it filters better than the other "major oiled cotton filter"). I've got a hood seal, plus an extra hood seal courtesy of the local hardware store. It keeps water from under the hood by my non-scientific direct hi pressure water spray from all directions.. My guess is that even if the BW gives up 2-3 hp to the "ram air" I'm better off due to less risk of water ingestion.

My Vette is a daily driver, as I intend to drive it as much as possible. I like driving the car and dont care about resale, rock chips, etc. I've the extended warranty and don't want to take undue risk of sucking water. My guess is that going to an aftermarket air intake will risk warranty for certain things, but as long as one of them isn't sucking water--I'll take the chance.

Look forward to other input, to learn more, but appreciate what I've received thus far.

Peace,

Karl :flag

 

I destroyed my motor in my 01 vert because I had a Vortex Rammer installed on my car. Was pulling into a gas station in moderate rain and "scooped" up about a gallon of water into my intake! Now everytime it rains I white knuckle it all the way home. Added horsepower but be very careful!

 

BLACKWING for a daily driver

 

i have the vortex.i ran stock at 13.54@104..the next day i went 13.004@108mph with the vortex ram air,got it used at speed demon for 150.00 so it does work. i don't think the blackwing will do that..........also on a cold day stock it went 13.38@105mph.on a cold night with the vortex i got my best run at houston race way park at 12.89@107 and backed it up with a 12.94@108mph.....with 2.73's.......... :yesnod: :chevy