No cats = big smell?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,040
Likes: 0
From: Collin County Texas
Re: No cats = big smell? (aaaaa)
BTW, RWhite- how did you gut your cats? I want to do mine.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,602
Likes: 20
From: Palm City Florida
Re: No cats = big smell? (msuc5vette)
The bottom line is it DOES smell! Not a bad smell (Like a lawnmower) It is just a ANNOYING smell that lingers on everything. The people who tell you they don't notice it are just not that sensitive to it or don't mind the smell.
Trust meFor the rest of the world it STINKS. It sticks to your clothes and your skin and won't let go. I can walk behind my car after it's been off for an hour and still smell it in the garage.
My biggest gripe is not the odor.. It's the fact that is STICKS to you. :U After you leave the car.
I do not believe it to be a tuning issue as the majority of the smells comes from simply idling. At that point the car is in full closed loop and running 14.7.
I am putting High Flow cats back on ASAP..
[Modified by chuckster, 10:54 AM 8/5/2003]
Trust meFor the rest of the world it STINKS. It sticks to your clothes and your skin and won't let go. I can walk behind my car after it's been off for an hour and still smell it in the garage.
My biggest gripe is not the odor.. It's the fact that is STICKS to you. :U After you leave the car.
I do not believe it to be a tuning issue as the majority of the smells comes from simply idling. At that point the car is in full closed loop and running 14.7.
I am putting High Flow cats back on ASAP..
[Modified by chuckster, 10:54 AM 8/5/2003]
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 16,723
Likes: 1
From: Redacted
Re: No cats = big smell? (aaaaa)
And as for throwing garbage out the window-this is a forum for high perf. cars-please keep your political opinions out of it. :rolleyes:
This may be a Corvette forum, but this is a subject is for petulant spoiled brats who shoulder no responsibility for their actions.
Taking responsibility for your actions is the most conservative of political values, I can assure you. :flag :flag :flag :flag
Yes, it really is like tossing your trash and cigarette butts out the window.
Do you pour your used motor oil down the rain gutter too?
Do you krap on your dinner table?
Technically, if you just *have* to do this sillyness, buy a freaking off-road X pipe and do it right. Gutting the catalyst matrix with a screwdriver will simply create turbulent flow.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,283
Likes: 906
From: Lake Elsinore, CA
Re: No cats = big smell? (larrysb)
Technically, if you just *have* to do this sillyness, buy a freaking off-road X pipe and do it right. Gutting the catalyst matrix with a screwdriver will simply create turbulent flow.
Actually, I'll be trying this only for the fun of it for a short period of time. I've always wanted to try this and the FLP's are set up from the factory to do this. I have some bonified cutouts (pic below) that go a step beyond the ORP's that are ready to be swapped in. No way would I ever think of running this full time - and my vette is strictly a weekend (only monthly lately) toy.
AFA the pollution a catless car could potentially spew out over the course of a year? To be truly PC, we should all be using push-mowers and hand rakes rather than those two-stroke carbon-belchers that make lawn work so much easier. :boxing :p: :jester
Peace :seeya
[Modified by Patches, 3:13 PM 8/5/2003]
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,602
Likes: 20
From: Palm City Florida
Re: No cats = big smell? (larrysb)
And as for throwing garbage out the window-this is a forum for high perf. cars-please keep your political opinions out of it. :rolleyes:
Political opinion?
This may be a Corvette forum, but this is a subject is for petulant spoiled brats who shoulder no responsibility for their actions.
Taking responsibility for your actions is the most conservative of political values, I can assure you. :flag :flag :flag :flag
Yes, it really is like tossing your trash and cigarette butts out the window.
Do you pour your used motor oil down the rain gutter too?
Do you krap on your dinner table?
Technically, if you just *have* to do this sillyness, buy a freaking off-road X pipe and do it right. Gutting the catalyst matrix with a screwdriver will simply create turbulent flow.
Political opinion?
This may be a Corvette forum, but this is a subject is for petulant spoiled brats who shoulder no responsibility for their actions.
Taking responsibility for your actions is the most conservative of political values, I can assure you. :flag :flag :flag :flag
Yes, it really is like tossing your trash and cigarette butts out the window.
Do you pour your used motor oil down the rain gutter too?
Do you krap on your dinner table?
Technically, if you just *have* to do this sillyness, buy a freaking off-road X pipe and do it right. Gutting the catalyst matrix with a screwdriver will simply create turbulent flow.
I am all for saving the environment.. but what we do makes so little difference... It's hardly worth anything except to "Feel good" :grouphug:
Here is my take..
Consider the 1000's of Airliners in the air every day...
OK let's start here
Boeing 747 - Fuel Capacity 57,285 gallons
Corvette C5 - Fuel Capacity 19.1
Assuming my catless polluter generates the same amount of crap per gallon as a 747(which is a stretch to say the least)
At 25mpg I'd have to drive my car 1,432,022.5 miles to dump the same amount of crap into the air as one 747 in ONE Flight...
57,285 / 19.1 = 2999 tanks of gas
19.1 * 25mpg = 477.5 miles per tank
2999 (Tanks) *477.5 (Miles per Tank) = 1,432,022.5 miles
So it would seem to me that just the taxi down the runway, the plane would pollute more than my car would in a lifetime....
Now add in, Every piece heavy construction equipment, every ship on the seas, every NASCAR, IRL, heck any race that uses a combustion engine...
You can clearly see we don't show up as a blip on the radar screen.. Depressing but true...
Pick a battle worth fighting...
PS. I am putting my CATS back on cause "I" hate the smell... ;)
:cheers:
[Modified by chuckster, 3:26 PM 8/5/2003]
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Verdad Gallardo
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
Likes: 0
From: Sunshine State
Re: No cats = big smell? (chuckster)
And as for throwing garbage out the window-this is a forum for high perf. cars-please keep your political opinions out of it. :rolleyes:
Political opinion?
This may be a Corvette forum, but this is a subject is for petulant spoiled brats who shoulder no responsibility for their actions.
Taking responsibility for your actions is the most conservative of political values, I can assure you. :flag :flag :flag :flag
Yes, it really is like tossing your trash and cigarette butts out the window.
Do you pour your used motor oil down the rain gutter too?
Do you krap on your dinner table?
Technically, if you just *have* to do this sillyness, buy a freaking off-road X pipe and do it right. Gutting the catalyst matrix with a screwdriver will simply create turbulent flow.
I have posted this before... There are tons of other more useful causes where we can "Truly" effective in.. This is not one of them..
I am all for saving the environment.. but what we do makes so little difference... It's hardly worth anything except to "Feel good" :grouphug:
Here is my take..
Consider the 1000's of Airliners in the air every day...
OK let's start here
Boeing 747 - Fuel Capacity 57,285 gallons
Corvette C5 - Fuel Capacity 19.1
Assuming my catless polluter generates the same amount of crap per gallon as a 747(which is a stretch to say the least)
At 25mpg I'd have to drive my car 1,432,022.5 miles to dump the same amount of crap into the air as one 747 in ONE Flight...
57,285 / 19.1 = 2999 tanks of gas
19.1 * 25mpg = 477.5 miles per tank
2999 (Tanks) *477.5 (Miles per Tank) = 1,432,022.5 miles
So it would seem to me that just the taxi down the runway, the plane would pollute more than my car would in a lifetime....
Now add in, Every piece heavy construction equipment, every ship on the seas, every NASCAR, IRL, heck any race that uses a combustion engine...
You can clearly see we don't show up as a blip on the radar screen.. Depressing but true...
Pick a battle worth fighting...
PS. I am putting my CATS back on cause "I" hate the smell... ;)
:cheers:
[Modified by chuckster, 3:26 PM 8/5/2003]
Political opinion?
This may be a Corvette forum, but this is a subject is for petulant spoiled brats who shoulder no responsibility for their actions.
Taking responsibility for your actions is the most conservative of political values, I can assure you. :flag :flag :flag :flag
Yes, it really is like tossing your trash and cigarette butts out the window.
Do you pour your used motor oil down the rain gutter too?
Do you krap on your dinner table?
Technically, if you just *have* to do this sillyness, buy a freaking off-road X pipe and do it right. Gutting the catalyst matrix with a screwdriver will simply create turbulent flow.
I have posted this before... There are tons of other more useful causes where we can "Truly" effective in.. This is not one of them..
I am all for saving the environment.. but what we do makes so little difference... It's hardly worth anything except to "Feel good" :grouphug:
Here is my take..
Consider the 1000's of Airliners in the air every day...
OK let's start here
Boeing 747 - Fuel Capacity 57,285 gallons
Corvette C5 - Fuel Capacity 19.1
Assuming my catless polluter generates the same amount of crap per gallon as a 747(which is a stretch to say the least)
At 25mpg I'd have to drive my car 1,432,022.5 miles to dump the same amount of crap into the air as one 747 in ONE Flight...
57,285 / 19.1 = 2999 tanks of gas
19.1 * 25mpg = 477.5 miles per tank
2999 (Tanks) *477.5 (Miles per Tank) = 1,432,022.5 miles
So it would seem to me that just the taxi down the runway, the plane would pollute more than my car would in a lifetime....
Now add in, Every piece heavy construction equipment, every ship on the seas, every NASCAR, IRL, heck any race that uses a combustion engine...
You can clearly see we don't show up as a blip on the radar screen.. Depressing but true...
Pick a battle worth fighting...
PS. I am putting my CATS back on cause "I" hate the smell... ;)
:cheers:
[Modified by chuckster, 3:26 PM 8/5/2003]
Bob
:flag
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,942
Likes: 7
From: Gaffney, S.C.
Re: No cats = big smell? (Korreck)
We can have high performance cars and still be environmentally responsible. We have cars now that take in dirtier air than they let out and still outrun big block poluters from the 60s. Have a good time with your cars but stay within the law and emission standards.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
Likes: 0
From: Sunshine State
Re: No cats = big smell? (irfgt)
We can have high performance cars and still be environmentally responsible. We have cars now that take in dirtier air than they let out and still outrun big block poluters from the 60s. Have a good time with your cars but stay within the law and emission standards.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,885
Likes: 2
From: Corpus Christi TX
Re: No cats = big smell? (msuc5vette)
Even though I have high flow carsound cats on my car, may I suggest the tree huggers just simply not read these kinds of threads. Either click it and close it or just avoid it all together.
I have serious doubts anyone's opinion is going to be swayed in regards to this issue, especially when any one of us can jump on the freeway and watch the obnoxious exhaust billow from the armada of 18-wheelers that criss-crosses our country everyday.
A late model corvette with no cats should be the least of our worries... :nopity
I have serious doubts anyone's opinion is going to be swayed in regards to this issue, especially when any one of us can jump on the freeway and watch the obnoxious exhaust billow from the armada of 18-wheelers that criss-crosses our country everyday.
A late model corvette with no cats should be the least of our worries... :nopity
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 0
From: Troy MI
Re: No cats = big smell? (larrysb)
Your C5 may also smell, since it will have nothing to consume any leftover hydrocarbons in the exhaust if you remove/disable the catalyst. The engine's tuning will be expecting the catalyst in place and may not be able to adequately compensate for the lack of catalyst.
It's like tossing your trash and cigarette butts out the window. Same deal.
If you find you just have some compulsive need to disable the cats, then purchase an off-road X pipe and O2 sims. Get your PCM tuned for the no-cat operation for your 5hp gain, otherwise you'll probably lose some power on a stock motor.
When you come back to your senses, you can then re-install the cats.
Or get the electric cutouts, so you can switch to open exhaust, impress the ladies, win the race or whatever you think you need to do, then switch it back to the catalyst to prevent stinky smells and that pollution thing.
It's like tossing your trash and cigarette butts out the window. Same deal.
If you find you just have some compulsive need to disable the cats, then purchase an off-road X pipe and O2 sims. Get your PCM tuned for the no-cat operation for your 5hp gain, otherwise you'll probably lose some power on a stock motor.
When you come back to your senses, you can then re-install the cats.
Or get the electric cutouts, so you can switch to open exhaust, impress the ladies, win the race or whatever you think you need to do, then switch it back to the catalyst to prevent stinky smells and that pollution thing.
Since it was tuned I expected it to smell close to the way it did with the cats.
I was told by the tuner that I should drill an 1/8" hole in the throttle plate, which is basically the entire reason for my post.
I would like to know if it is likely that my car is idling rich in spite of being tuned, and if drilling the hole in the throttle plate would help lean it out thus reduce the smell.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 16,477
Likes: 26
From: Gone
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03
Re: No cats = big smell? (Korreck)
One car may not make a difference, same as throwing out one gum wrapper. Now everybody throw out a gum wrapper and you'll SEE the difference. It all adds up.
Bob
:flag
Bob
:flag
If I sell my C5 and get a '69 big block instead...everyone, even the tree huggers, will congratulate me on my new classic car purchase and wave to me as I pass them on the road while I'm getting 10mpg.
If I drive the '69 as much as I do my '01 (w/o cats), which will be the bigger polluter?
I would really hope you people also go into the other forums and tell all the pre '74 Vette owners to junk their cars and quit polluting our enviroment.
:cheers:
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,283
Likes: 906
From: Lake Elsinore, CA
Re: No cats = big smell? (msuc5vette)
I was told by the tuner that I should drill an 1/8" hole in the throttle plate, which is basically the entire reason for my post.
I would like to know if it is likely that my car is idling rich in spite of being tuned, and if drilling the hole in the throttle plate would help lean it out thus reduce the smell.
I would like to know if it is likely that my car is idling rich in spite of being tuned, and if drilling the hole in the throttle plate would help lean it out thus reduce the smell.
Poor guy just needed a tech question answered and his thread becomes a political avalanche.
Sorry, man. That's the forum for you. :) :flag
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 16,723
Likes: 1
From: Redacted
Re: No cats = big smell? (msuc5vette)
Since it was tuned I expected it to smell close to the way it did with the cats.
I was told by the tuner that I should drill an 1/8" hole in the throttle plate, which is basically the entire reason for my post.
I would like to know if it is likely that my car is idling rich in spite of being tuned, and if drilling the hole in the throttle plate would help lean it out thus reduce the smell.
I was told by the tuner that I should drill an 1/8" hole in the throttle plate, which is basically the entire reason for my post.
I would like to know if it is likely that my car is idling rich in spite of being tuned, and if drilling the hole in the throttle plate would help lean it out thus reduce the smell.
I'm not sure why your tuner would recommend drilling a 1/8 inch hole in the TB. Doesn't exactly strike me as the thing to do. One would suppose he figures that will increase the idle air bypass with the throttle closed and lean the mixture. But the computer will probably see that as a reason to flow more fuel to match the increased air. Seems like something that would be better handled by software tuning, or perhaps better choices in what's done to the car.
But the stink is normal for an uncatted car, especially one running rich or one that is "over-scavenging." Headers can have this effect as more scavenging will happen and more unburned fuel will exit the cylinder. It's not a matter of being rich in that case, it's a matter of cylinder filling during the overlap period on the cam.
Headers increase the velocity of the exhaust pulse. During the overlap when both valves are open, the retreating exhaust pulse "pulls" in charge from the intake. This promotes cylinder filling, but some of the raw fuel/air mixture chases out the exhaust charge.
I don't know if you have installed a cam or not, but a point to consider is Chevy carefully picked the cam grind to get the best performance and emissions from the stock exhaust manifolds and cats. Adding headers and no cats will likely exceed the level of scavenging intended by the original cam setup. Hence the aroma you are experiencing. No amount of fuel trim will "fix" the condition, since it probably isn't a mixture problem but a scavenging problem.
The whole picture needs to be considered when you make a significant change in the system, like installing headers. The flow dynamics change considerably and the side effects are not always as anticipated, as you've discovered. Unburned fuel in the exhaust port won't make your car faster, your nose happy or do any good for the world around us.
Best of luck to you and your tuner.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
From: Memphis, TN.
Re: No cats = big smell? (larrysb)
It's like tossing your trash and cigarette butts out the window. Same deal.
I think some of you guys are "Runnin a Little Lean" and you need to just take it down a peg or two.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 16,723
Likes: 1
From: Redacted
Re: No cats = big smell? (Big Casino)
Hey junior, you keep calling me out on this.
Why?
Because you know I'm right.
Drive up in a C3 or a C2 and I'll wave, you betcha. They were built before the rules came about and are legal. Those old cars pollute a lot. Didn't know any better back then and it took 30 years of hard work, research and engineering to figure out how to have a high performance car that does jump through all the hoops and doesn't trash the air we all have to breathe.
Yes, it is just like tossing your trash and cigarette butts out the window, no matter how you try to rationalize it.
Why?
Because you know I'm right.
Drive up in a C3 or a C2 and I'll wave, you betcha. They were built before the rules came about and are legal. Those old cars pollute a lot. Didn't know any better back then and it took 30 years of hard work, research and engineering to figure out how to have a high performance car that does jump through all the hoops and doesn't trash the air we all have to breathe.
Yes, it is just like tossing your trash and cigarette butts out the window, no matter how you try to rationalize it.
It's like tossing your trash and cigarette butts out the window. Same deal.
That's bull*^%$. Like someone above said. If I lived on your street and and drove by your house everyday in a 67 big block Vette you would smile and wave while I "polluted the air you were breathing", but if I went by your house and threw my McDonalds trash and cig butts in your drive way, what would you do then :rolleyes:
I think some of you guys are "Runnin a Little Lean" and you need to just take it down a peg or two.
That's bull*^%$. Like someone above said. If I lived on your street and and drove by your house everyday in a 67 big block Vette you would smile and wave while I "polluted the air you were breathing", but if I went by your house and threw my McDonalds trash and cig butts in your drive way, what would you do then :rolleyes:
I think some of you guys are "Runnin a Little Lean" and you need to just take it down a peg or two.