Fly-by-Wire......what gives?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 629
Likes: 20
From: Texas
Fly-by-Wire......what gives?
The fly-by-wire throttle of the vette is cool, but what is its value over a cable throttle? The FBW system is much more expensive. It apparently has its own computer. It requires the rheostat at the pedal, its own wiring, a stepper motor at the throttle body. What is the benefit of all this complication?
Thanks, :confused:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 938
Likes: 2
From: IL
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (split63)
Elimination of additional cables for traction control systems and well as idle air control valve. You also eliminate cruise control hardware. Cruise control hardware and cables.
Not only does that simply the system, it also saves a lot of space and quite a bit of weight!
Not only does that simply the system, it also saves a lot of space and quite a bit of weight!
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 28,753
Likes: 9
From: San Jose/Bear Valley CA
CA Events Coordinator
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (split63)
the only downside I have noticed is the split second lag when you let off the gas pedal... other than that, I think it is superior to a cable. ;)
vetterdstr :cheers:
vetterdstr :cheers:
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,010
Likes: 1
From: SE Idaho
St. Jude Contributor
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (H82BFST)
Elimination of additional cables for traction control systems and well as idle air control valve. You also eliminate cruise control hardware. Cruise control hardware and cables.
Not only does that simply the system, it also saves a lot of space and quite a bit of weight!
Not only does that simply the system, it also saves a lot of space and quite a bit of weight!
It is also cheaper and more trouble free than the cable system, for normal driving and for cruise operation. Many of GM cars are going this way. Wait till the Corvette gets electronic steering...Saturn currently uses it in the VUE and the ION.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 938
Likes: 2
From: IL
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (WhiteC5Vette)
Yeah, I know the ASR in my 98 T/A for throttle control traction control is accent compared to my 99 C5's drive by wire. ;)
(Yes, on the F-bodies, the throttle cable, cruise cable all run to an ASR motor and then one seperate cable from the ASR motor runs to the throttle body.)
(Yes, on the F-bodies, the throttle cable, cruise cable all run to an ASR motor and then one seperate cable from the ASR motor runs to the throttle body.)
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 629
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From: Texas
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (H82BFST)
I just can't accept fly-by-wire steering. Do they have a force feedback system to simulate the bumps in the road. :nonod:
[Modified by split63, 7:32 PM 8/4/2003]
[Modified by split63, 7:32 PM 8/4/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh PA
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (split63)
I think this question fits here-I've noticed when slowing down in gear (mn6) that the rate of deceleration changes. At first it is nornal then it feels as though the car is free-wheeling. I assume the throttle body opens slightly for some reason(polution control?) but no fuel is fed to the engine. Has anyone else noticed this? It's annoying but not a big deal. :confused:
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,058
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From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (aaaaa)
They have done that for years so emissions could be cut down. My 86 used to do it and it had the old throttle cable.
The C4 ASR included a push back on the pedal. With the FBW the computer can just cut the throttle motor. Overall I can guarantee you that it is cheaper to it this way than the old way. If it wasn't they would not have done it. It also allows the computer to maintain better control over engine operating conditions and still meet the drivers demands.
Bill
The C4 ASR included a push back on the pedal. With the FBW the computer can just cut the throttle motor. Overall I can guarantee you that it is cheaper to it this way than the old way. If it wasn't they would not have done it. It also allows the computer to maintain better control over engine operating conditions and still meet the drivers demands.
Bill
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Drifting
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,763
Likes: 24
From: Austin TX
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (split63)
I just can't accept fly-by-wire steering. Do they have a force feedback system to simulate the bumps in the road. :nonod:
[Modified by split63, 7:32 PM 8/4/2003]
[Modified by split63, 7:32 PM 8/4/2003]
Steering does have a magnet that stiffens up the feel at speed.
Eric
[Modified by 66ImpalaLT1, 10:29 PM 8/4/2003]
Pro
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Pensacola CA
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (66ImpalaLT1)
:withstupid:
Eric, read what that guy was replying to. The guy above said that in Saturns they are using Electronic steering, just wait till Vettes get it. He wasnt saying C5s had it.....
Eric, read what that guy was replying to. The guy above said that in Saturns they are using Electronic steering, just wait till Vettes get it. He wasnt saying C5s had it.....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,050
Likes: 124
From: Wichita KS
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (split63)
The fly-by-wire throttle of the vette is cool, but what is its value over a cable throttle? ..... It apparently has its own computer. .....
A mechanical cable system would be a needless complication for the PCM. The PCM makes rapid lean/rich transitions (monitored by HO2S) when in Closed Loop operation. Computer control is the way GM chose to get the driveability, performance, and fuel economy we enjoy with the C5. The throttle input has to become an electronic signal at some point, easiest to do it at the accelerator pedal.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 938
Likes: 2
From: IL
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (split63)
If you guys want to see drive by wire, variable valve train and motor mounted PCM, check out the engine bay of a Trailblazer or Envoy with the I6 engine. It's amazing how little of everything their is, especially bulk wiring. No traction control modules, no cruise models, no coils or wires (coil on plug instead), etc... etc.. Actally there is just plastic all over the place covering stuff up.
Drive by wire is here to stay, electric steering and brakes will be interesting.
Drive by wire is here to stay, electric steering and brakes will be interesting.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,010
Likes: 1
From: SE Idaho
St. Jude Contributor
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (H82BFST)
The electronic steering I'm talking about is the power assist, and it is standard on the Saturn VUE and ION. Sorry to mislead everyone. Instead of having a hydraulic PS pump, there is an electric motor mounted to the steering column that provides power assist. The computer can be programmed to add/subtract resistance to the steering. The computer also allows for more assist at low speeds, while removing assist at high speeds.
Then, there is electronic variable timing, and I don't mean the VTEC system that Honda utilizes. The Honda system controls a solenoid that when open allows a greater oil flow through the rockers, which allows two (per cylinder) rockers to lock onto a third rocker, thus increasing the lift. The electronic system I'm talking about controls each valve individually and electronically. (More programming for the aftermarket to play around with.)
The electronic age is with us...
Then, there is electronic variable timing, and I don't mean the VTEC system that Honda utilizes. The Honda system controls a solenoid that when open allows a greater oil flow through the rockers, which allows two (per cylinder) rockers to lock onto a third rocker, thus increasing the lift. The electronic system I'm talking about controls each valve individually and electronically. (More programming for the aftermarket to play around with.)
The electronic age is with us...
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,058
Likes: 9,820
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (WhiteC5Vette)
Read how magnasteer on the Vette works and you will realize how close you are to drive by wire steering on the C5. A couple of modules and two electric motors and it will be there
Bill
Bill
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: United States
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (split63)
Just hope and pray the throttle actuator is not made by Teleflex. If it is, it's trash. From the voice of experience. :nono:
[Modified by Roadfrog, 4:05 AM 8/6/2003]
[Modified by Roadfrog, 4:05 AM 8/6/2003]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,088
Likes: 1
From: NC
Re: Fly-by-Wire......what gives? (WhiteC5Vette)
The electronic age is with us...
around in personal flying cars with no traffic jams.
Well, according to Popular Mechanics anyway. :D
...GeorgeC
