Vararam vs Blackwing
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (C5pilot)
"Sometimes I think Donaldson is the only company actually concerned with the quality of the air that some people shove through their prize winning Vettes. All you ever hear is HP, HP, HP... Why doesn't anyone EVER ask how well the FILTER WORKS? I'll sacrifice a tenth of a second if it means prolonging my enjoyment. I love my big honkin blue filter because I know I'm protected. To each his own. "
And I might add you don't have to worry about water or rain. And this thing about 'ram air' is bull. No such thing at the speeds we can go. But that's another topic.
Bob
:flag
And I might add you don't have to worry about water or rain. And this thing about 'ram air' is bull. No such thing at the speeds we can go. But that's another topic.
Bob
:flag
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From: Dallas TX
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Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (MC98)
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,602
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From: Palm City Florida
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (Korreck)
". And this thing about 'ram air' is bull. No such thing at the speeds we can go. But that's another topic.
Bob
:flag
Bob
:flag
My Vararam gave me a performance boost over the Vortex I had..Installing a Vararam over a Blackwing would make you giddy with joy..
I do not feel I am sacraficing anything on my car. I have driven at 80mph in torrential downpours in Florida with my Vararam without a single issue. I do not intend to use it as a submarine..
Keep the filter cleaned and Well oiled and you will have no problems with filtration either.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (chuckster)
Didn't mean to start an argument. And you will have a performance boost. Cooler air. Nothing that you can really tell though. No such thing as 'ram air'. When I have more time I'll start a new topic. And just because I don't have one, that doesn't change the aero dynamics.
Bob
:flag
Bob
:flag
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,602
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From: Palm City Florida
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (Korreck)
Didn't mean to start an argument. And you will have a performance boost. Cooler air. Nothing that you can really tell though. No such thing as 'ram air'. When I have more time I'll start a new topic. And just because I don't have one, that doesn't change the aero dynamics.
Bob
:flag
Bob
:flag
Cool air does not count.. I had all the cool air I needed with the Vortex.. the Vortex does not build pressure...
I suggest you read that article that Richard just posted...It is an awsome explanation of how it works and Why it works..
the bottom line is this.. If you want more performance than a Vararam... Then you need a Supercharger..
Vararam "OWNS" all other filters.. :D
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 820
Likes: 0
From: Newport News VA
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (Korreck)
"And this thing about 'ram air' is bull. No such thing at the speeds we can go. But that's another topic"
I used to believe that too until I researched it a little more. The simplest way to understand it is ram air isn't about building a positive pressure in the intake manifold, its about equalizing the pressure back up to 1 atmosphere from the vacuum the engine creates, basically negating and restriction your intake system would normally provide. In this sense it really is a "supercharger" effect, because instead of having a slight vacuum in your intake the pressure will be normalized to 1 atmosphere. Then again I know there's some people on here who can explain it a lot better than me, I've seen that thread pop up two or three times before.
Oh, and I agree with you 100% about the water & rain issue, that's the #1 reason I haven't picked up the VR. I'll probably get the blackwing myself :cool:
I used to believe that too until I researched it a little more. The simplest way to understand it is ram air isn't about building a positive pressure in the intake manifold, its about equalizing the pressure back up to 1 atmosphere from the vacuum the engine creates, basically negating and restriction your intake system would normally provide. In this sense it really is a "supercharger" effect, because instead of having a slight vacuum in your intake the pressure will be normalized to 1 atmosphere. Then again I know there's some people on here who can explain it a lot better than me, I've seen that thread pop up two or three times before.
Oh, and I agree with you 100% about the water & rain issue, that's the #1 reason I haven't picked up the VR. I'll probably get the blackwing myself :cool:
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (chuckster)
I promise to post an article tonight or over the weekend about 'ram air', and the lack of. I will try and find the article written by Richard.
Thanks,
Bob
:flag
Thanks,
Bob
:flag
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 820
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From: Newport News VA
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (Korreck)
I think I've read the one you were talking about, it was talking about something to the effect of air has to reach speeds close to mach 1 before it will compress and build a positive pressure. I dont know if they ever went on to explain if moving air can overcome restriction from the air filter, throttle body, etc but like I said I'm not the smartest guy when it comes to this stuff. :jester
See ya around,
:seeya Jeff
See ya around,
:seeya Jeff
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Drifting
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,763
Likes: 24
From: Austin TX
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (MC98)
On a 70 degree day at the drag strip, my IAT's were usually over 100 at the start of the run. This was from heat soak in the engine compartment. With the Vararam the IAT's consistantly match the outside air temperature.
Regarding ram air. If you mean that it builds pressure above atmospheric then no, it doesnt. What the Vararam did for me was let the engine reach atmospheric pressure under more conditions than the Blackwing. This is partly due to the low restriction filter. My K&N came for it today, so I'll log some runs with each filter and compare.
Eric
Regarding ram air. If you mean that it builds pressure above atmospheric then no, it doesnt. What the Vararam did for me was let the engine reach atmospheric pressure under more conditions than the Blackwing. This is partly due to the low restriction filter. My K&N came for it today, so I'll log some runs with each filter and compare.
Eric
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,907
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From: Between a rock and a hard place, S.E. PA
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (66ImpalaLT1)
What the Vararam did for me was let the engine reach atmospheric pressure under more conditions than the Blackwing. This is partly due to the low restriction filter. My K&N came for it today, so I'll log some runs with each filter and compare.
Eric
Eric
First and foremost filters are there for a reason! Secondly, it doesn't matter if you're pushing or pulling air through one, it's only going to allow you so much CFM to pass through at any given size. Therefore, you only have 2 options to pass more air through a filtering material... You can give it a larger surface area (Blackwing) to allow more air to pass through at the same time... OR you can use a less restrictive material and allow larger particles of dirt to pass through it too.
Cold air = Good :yesnod: Dirt = Bad :nonod:
Do you sacrifice filtering with the Vararam? I don't know, they only brag about HP, whereas Donaldson insures proper filtration & better than average performance. Heck, run without any filter and beat anything, right?
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,763
Likes: 24
From: Austin TX
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (C5pilot)
No, I wont toss out the K&N if it is more restrictive. I'll use it for street driving and keep the foam filter for the track. Even with the K&N I'll still get the benefit of lower IAT temps, which is all I really expected in the first place. I never thought cutting the shroud was a very good solution for that problem as you still pull hot air off the radiator at idle.
Eric
Eric
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,015
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From: Deerfield beach Fl
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (chuckster)
What about hitting puddles? Don't you worry about going through one of those 6 inch puddles and hydrolocking the engine? The rain storms we just had this weekend in broward would make me nervous. I'd love to get a vararam if it was proven safe.
Rob
I do not feel I am sacraficing anything on my car. I have driven at 80mph in torrential downpours in Florida with my Vararam without a single issue. I do not intend to use it as a submarine..
Keep the filter cleaned and Well oiled and you will have no problems with filtration either.
[/QUOTE]
Rob
I do not feel I am sacraficing anything on my car. I have driven at 80mph in torrential downpours in Florida with my Vararam without a single issue. I do not intend to use it as a submarine..
Keep the filter cleaned and Well oiled and you will have no problems with filtration either.
[/QUOTE]
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,907
Likes: 1
From: Between a rock and a hard place, S.E. PA
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (tt_vette)
Anyone noticed a sound difference with Vararam???
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,190
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From: Johns Creek GA
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (RG in Dallas)
Interesting....
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 4,043
Likes: 342
From: Central NJ
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (Thunder7)
I don't think you get the most out of the Donaldson unless you add the cold air cover. Th cold air cover eliminates all the engine hot air. By cutting a hole under the filter(like in the vararam comparison) and without the cold air cover you will still get hot engine air to the filter. I did tests myself with an autotap in regards to IAT. At the track I hit 147 degrees while waiting for my run. During the run it went down to 115, but that is still high. In back to back tests with another 99 vette with a vortex I was at least 30 degrees higher in IAT, this was before I added the cold air cover. After I installed the cover on my Donaldson I was 1 degree cooler than the vortex. So I would like to see a comparison with a Donaldson( with cover) and a vararam. I do still think that the vararam will provide a better gain than the Donalson, but I think it will be a hell of a lot closer in comparison.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Virginia Chesapeak
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (tabbruzz)
I don't think you get the most out of the Donaldson unless you add the cold air cover. Th cold air cover eliminates all the engine hot air. By cutting a hole under the filter(like in the vararam comparison) and without the cold air cover you will still get hot engine air to the filter. I did tests myself with an autotap in regards to IAT. At the track I hit 147 degrees while waiting for my run. During the run it went down to 115, but that is still high. In back to back tests with another 99 vette with a vortex I was at least 30 degrees higher in IAT, this was before I added the cold air cover. After I installed the cover on my Donaldson I was 1 degree cooler than the vortex. So I would like to see a comparison with a Donaldson( with cover) and a vararam. I do still think that the vararam will provide a better gain than the Donalson, but I think it will be a hell of a lot closer in comparison.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 6
From: Thousand Oaks California
Re: Vararam vs Blackwing (tabbruzz)
Forget the simplistic "ram" idea, the way the vararam sits is right where the distance between two streamlines is widest and hence there's high static pressure in that vicinity [which is a good thing]. Areas where streamlines are compressed are where velocity is high / pressure is low. The real trick is to route the air to the throttle body efficiently.
[Modified by STAGED, 4:24 PM 8/11/2003]
[Modified by STAGED, 4:24 PM 8/11/2003]