HOT throttle body vs cool one
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,710
Likes: 1,219
From: Phila PA, Bonita Springs FL
HOT throttle body vs cool one
Could a HOT throttle body be causing my car to react sluggishly off the line while drag racing?
I'm thinking since I don't have the throttle body bypass mod, that when I'm reving it at the line, there is not alot of volume or velocity of air moving thru the TB, since I'm at a stand still, and subsequently, a slow response.
Where in cold weather, my car will "jump" off the line and my RT's are great.
I recently did the bypass, just now after 4 years.
BEFORE I did it, I drove for 20 minutes, felt the TB, and boy was it HOT!
After the bypass was completed, I drove for another 20 mins, felt the TB, and it was just slighty cool, but certainly NOT EVEN lukewarm at all!
In lieu of the HP BS about this mod, has anyone noticed improved resposiveness by keeping the TB cool now?????
I know the air flows thru it at such a speed that even with the coolant going thru the TB, the air wouldn't pick up any temp, but I cannot believe how the TB went from being red fire hot to COOL once I did the bypass...
Thoughts on this?
Ellis
I'm thinking since I don't have the throttle body bypass mod, that when I'm reving it at the line, there is not alot of volume or velocity of air moving thru the TB, since I'm at a stand still, and subsequently, a slow response.
Where in cold weather, my car will "jump" off the line and my RT's are great.
I recently did the bypass, just now after 4 years.
BEFORE I did it, I drove for 20 minutes, felt the TB, and boy was it HOT!
After the bypass was completed, I drove for another 20 mins, felt the TB, and it was just slighty cool, but certainly NOT EVEN lukewarm at all!
In lieu of the HP BS about this mod, has anyone noticed improved resposiveness by keeping the TB cool now?????
I know the air flows thru it at such a speed that even with the coolant going thru the TB, the air wouldn't pick up any temp, but I cannot believe how the TB went from being red fire hot to COOL once I did the bypass...
Thoughts on this?
Ellis
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Re: HOT throttle body vs cool one (YO-EL)
air is sucked into the TB at a rate of around 60:1 it doesnt have time to get hot... that Throttle bypass is snake oil,, if you where to bypass the TB which runs at the coolant temp.. say 190 F... the throttle body will still pick up passive temps from under the hood... it might get as cold as 120... but in either event neither of these temps will effect the air temp being sucked in via your intake system...
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,979
Likes: 5
From: San Diego, CA "leaf" "tee" "e"
Re: HOT throttle body vs cool one (YO-EL)
Where in cold weather, my car will "jump" off the line and my RT's are great.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 31
From: Richmond Texas
Re: HOT throttle body vs cool one (Evil-Twin)
air is sucked into the TB at a rate of around 60:1 it doesnt have time to get hot... that Throttle bypass is snake oil,, if you where to bypass the TB which runs at the coolant temp.. say 190 F... the throttle body will still pick up passive temps from under the hood... it might get as cold as 120... but in either event neither of these temps will effect the air temp being sucked in via your intake system...
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,710
Likes: 1,219
From: Phila PA, Bonita Springs FL
Re: HOT throttle body vs cool one (BigBlue)
Guys, I have a 160 tstat..
My coolant temps are usually 174-178, even in warm weather..
I distinctly see the difference in my RT's when the temps get over 70 degrees.
Under 70, its all .5xx lights..
Over 70, its always .6xx lights..
I win alot of races in March & April, and then again in Oct & Nov.
But May thru Sept, my car is a dog off the line.
I recently also just changed the MAF wire harness & IAT sensor & harness to see if this helps, as well as desensitizing the knock sensors from 0 -2800 rpms just in case I was getting knock at the line after a spin> clean off & burnout..
A least resort will be going to the 2001 MAF setup with the IAT in the MAF, with the 3/2 into single 5 wire harness adaptor from Pace.
I just feel there HAS to be SOME effect, of the greatly reduced TB temperature. I'm telling you, it went from fire red hot, to cool once the mod was done.
And I will be doing autoptap as well shortly..
But, SOMETHING is making my car sluggish off the line at or above the 70 degree mark.. Faulty IAT sensor possibly???
[Modified by YO-EL, 8:02 PM 3/10/2004]
My coolant temps are usually 174-178, even in warm weather..
I distinctly see the difference in my RT's when the temps get over 70 degrees.
Under 70, its all .5xx lights..
Over 70, its always .6xx lights..
I win alot of races in March & April, and then again in Oct & Nov.
But May thru Sept, my car is a dog off the line.
I recently also just changed the MAF wire harness & IAT sensor & harness to see if this helps, as well as desensitizing the knock sensors from 0 -2800 rpms just in case I was getting knock at the line after a spin> clean off & burnout..
A least resort will be going to the 2001 MAF setup with the IAT in the MAF, with the 3/2 into single 5 wire harness adaptor from Pace.
I just feel there HAS to be SOME effect, of the greatly reduced TB temperature. I'm telling you, it went from fire red hot, to cool once the mod was done.
And I will be doing autoptap as well shortly..
But, SOMETHING is making my car sluggish off the line at or above the 70 degree mark.. Faulty IAT sensor possibly???
[Modified by YO-EL, 8:02 PM 3/10/2004]
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,538
Likes: 290
From: Central MO
Re: HOT throttle body vs cool one (leaftye)
I think you just nailed it there. Cold air is denser, and creates a potential for more power. Add humidity to the mix, and you get even more power.
Simple Physics! The cooler the air the more oxygen per cubic foot. More Oxygen means more BOOM! :eek: That is why Nitrous is used! Room air is 21% oxygen, by adding nitrous you get to about 38-40% oxygen. If you could get medical grade Nitrous watch out :eek: :eek: ! The air fuel mixture obeys ideal gas laws P x V = n x R x T. So assuming the cyclinder size remains the same (V), and with more oxygen the temp of combustion goes up (T), then the (P) pressure in the system goes up. More P means greater force and velocity for the down going cylinder, more Horse power. :yesnod:
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,710
Likes: 1,219
From: Phila PA, Bonita Springs FL
Re: HOT throttle body vs cool one (AZGASSER)
Stupid question, but would there be less oxygen content in warmer temps?
I can't believe I just asked that.
In any event let me add that my problems are NOT related to DA...
DA could be -1000 or +3000... My car ET's will vary but be consistent to the DA.
However, what DOES change is my car's ability to LAUNCH fast once the temp is over 70.. I';ve gone over all my records and over 70 degrees, 90% of the lights are .6xx. And we're talking almost 150 runs.
Below 70, about 200 runs, 90% all .5xx lights...
I have been fighting this problem for 2 yrs now, and finally deduced the make it or break it point for my lights are at the 70 degree mark..
I know you're all gonna say autotap it when its over 70 out, right?
Trust me, I will be doing that too...
Just looking for some thoughts/feedback as to why sluggish launches when its over 70 degrees..
I can't believe I just asked that.
In any event let me add that my problems are NOT related to DA...
DA could be -1000 or +3000... My car ET's will vary but be consistent to the DA.
However, what DOES change is my car's ability to LAUNCH fast once the temp is over 70.. I';ve gone over all my records and over 70 degrees, 90% of the lights are .6xx. And we're talking almost 150 runs.
Below 70, about 200 runs, 90% all .5xx lights...
I have been fighting this problem for 2 yrs now, and finally deduced the make it or break it point for my lights are at the 70 degree mark..
I know you're all gonna say autotap it when its over 70 out, right?
Trust me, I will be doing that too...
Just looking for some thoughts/feedback as to why sluggish launches when its over 70 degrees..
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4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Golden valley mn
Re: HOT throttle body vs cool one (AZGASSER)
Gentlemen, you are pondering the many questions that led to the developement of the supercharger
Normal air (at atmospheric pressure) contains about 20% oxygen.
Gas + oxygen=Horsepower + more oxygen= faster!!
At 200 degrees one pound of air occupies 77.426 cubic feet
At 65 degrees one pound or air occupies 13.504 cubic feet
This is saturated air (100%) humidity. But you get the picture
:flag
Normal air (at atmospheric pressure) contains about 20% oxygen.
Gas + oxygen=Horsepower + more oxygen= faster!!
At 200 degrees one pound of air occupies 77.426 cubic feet
At 65 degrees one pound or air occupies 13.504 cubic feet
This is saturated air (100%) humidity. But you get the picture
:flag
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Re: HOT throttle body vs cool one (YO-EL)
YO-EL
I by-passed the throttle body in my 85 corvette (have not done it yet in the 98) and could feel a seat of the pants difference! The plenum was significantly COOLER and the HP was a lot better!
In my book the bypass WORKS!
BC
I by-passed the throttle body in my 85 corvette (have not done it yet in the 98) and could feel a seat of the pants difference! The plenum was significantly COOLER and the HP was a lot better!
In my book the bypass WORKS!
BC
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Re: HOT throttle body vs cool one (YO-EL)
Stupid question, but would there be less oxygen content in warmer temps?
I can't believe I just asked that.
I can't believe I just asked that.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 885
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA
Re: HOT throttle body vs cool one (OldSStroker)
I have minor mods and all I know is that when I installed (homemade) the throttle body bypass it definatly improved my low RPM throttle resoponse.
-BlackJack
-BlackJack
