Cats or No Cats - Help me decide
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Official Misfit Cooler Owner
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Cats or No Cats - Help me decide
I am ready to purchase some LT headers but can't decide if I should get Hi-Flow cats or not. Can someone give me details on why the extra $400 is worth it? Seems if I go with LG I will still need Sims or Tuning so why bother with cats in the first place?
I don't have an inspection to worry about in my city / state.
I don't have an inspection to worry about in my city / state.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,752
Likes: 3
From: Bethlehem PA
Jacksonville must be nice brother 
I'm about to do headers, probably Kooks, and am going to do without cats as well. We have inspections in PA, but that's easy to get around.
I posted a few weeks back about this one and most people agreed I'd pick up 10-15 ponies without the cats. One member said he had somewhat noxious fumes that would burn his eyes at stop lights, but to me stop lights with wind going in just the right direction aren't worth giving up the extra horses. I see guys spending $$ on heads and only pick up 20-30 horses.
I'm catless next week. I believe the emissions aren't off the charts anyhow. I'm hoping to get a report after cats so I can post it.
Our cars are ranked as well as 4 cyl Honda's in terms of emissions with cats. Without cats may be a whole different deal.
http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions
I'm about to do headers, probably Kooks, and am going to do without cats as well. We have inspections in PA, but that's easy to get around.
I posted a few weeks back about this one and most people agreed I'd pick up 10-15 ponies without the cats. One member said he had somewhat noxious fumes that would burn his eyes at stop lights, but to me stop lights with wind going in just the right direction aren't worth giving up the extra horses. I see guys spending $$ on heads and only pick up 20-30 horses.
I'm catless next week. I believe the emissions aren't off the charts anyhow. I'm hoping to get a report after cats so I can post it.
Our cars are ranked as well as 4 cyl Honda's in terms of emissions with cats. Without cats may be a whole different deal.
http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions
Last edited by simpleman68; Aug 23, 2004 at 09:52 PM. Reason: typo
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,988
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From: Hooterville, NJ
If you don't have to worry about inspection then I would say go for it. However, if your LEO's tend to have spot inpections then you may want to reconsider. I went with cats cause Jersey is pretty tough on inspections here. But, if I register it "classic" there is no emissions. But I can only put on 2500 miles a year.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 448
From: Atlanta metro Ga.
Originally Posted by John's vette
I am ready to purchase some LT headers but can't decide if I should get Hi-Flow cats or not. Can someone give me details on why the extra $400 is worth it? Seems if I go with LG I will still need Sims or Tuning so why bother with cats in the first place?
I don't have an inspection to worry about in my city / state.
I don't have an inspection to worry about in my city / state.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 35
From: Sunshine State, USA
Senior Member
Cruise-In V Veteran
I went with the LG's without cats and do not regret it. If you get a good tune, others have even been able to pass sniffer tests even without the cats. If they did a visual inspection you would be hosed, but we don't have to worry about that in Florida either. 
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46
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From: LaPorte IN
Originally Posted by Dan_the_C5_Man
Err, how about being a responsible member of society? Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine (and other CF members as well.) And look at the first response you recvd. Clearly the only "concern" was if the driver could smell / choke on the exhaust, screw everyone else!(?)
Now, as for the one driver who said there were fumes, I am inclined to believe it was another problem, not the missing cats. All cars built prior to 75 don't even have cats, and I've never heard of anyone getting sick or dying driving one of those cars. Again, it's all about keeping the car tuned right. Cats do little to nothing to actually clean up the cars emissions now a days.
Does that motorcycle of yours have cats?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 448
From: Atlanta metro Ga.
Originally Posted by Johnny S
A properly tuned car will pollute no more without cats than with them. This has been proven time and again, and I even know of cars that have passed emissions testing after the cats were removed. Cats were mandated back in 75 when the technology didn't exist to make cars run cleaner. Cars today are efficient enough to not need cats, but the environmentalists wouldn't be happy, so we're stuck with them.
Now, as for the one driver who said there were fumes, I am inclined to believe it was another problem, not the missing cats. All cars built prior to 75 don't even have cats, and I've never heard of anyone getting sick or dying driving one of those cars. Again, it's all about keeping the car tuned right. Cats do little to nothing to actually clean up the cars emissions now a days.
Does that motorcycle of yours have cats?
Now, as for the one driver who said there were fumes, I am inclined to believe it was another problem, not the missing cats. All cars built prior to 75 don't even have cats, and I've never heard of anyone getting sick or dying driving one of those cars. Again, it's all about keeping the car tuned right. Cats do little to nothing to actually clean up the cars emissions now a days.
Does that motorcycle of yours have cats?
And yes, there are several new HP motorcycle models from multiple manufacturers (2004 Yamaha R1 comes to mind, 160 HP bone stock) that have a catalytic converter. Please don't think for a moment that if today’s cars polluted at pre-1976 levels (and given the fact there are WAY more cars on the road today) that every single day would be a "condition red air pollution warning day" instead of every-other day, like we have here in metro Ga. "Denial" 'ain't just a river in Egypt.
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46
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From: LaPorte IN
Originally Posted by Dan_the_C5_Man
Hmm, I'm not sure how to respond to this one.. And yes, there are several new HP motorcycle models from multiple manufacturers (2004 Yamaha R1 comes to mind, 160 HP bone stock) that have a catalytic converter. Please don't think for a moment that if today’s cars polluted at pre-1976 levels (and given the fact there are WAY more cars on the road today) that every single day would be a "condition red air pollution warning day" instead of every-other day, like we have here in metro Ga. "Denial" 'ain't just a river in Egypt.
And yes, there are several new HP motorcycle models from multiple manufacturers (2004 Yamaha R1 comes to mind, 160 HP bone stock) that have a catalytic converter. Please don't think for a moment that if today’s cars polluted at pre-1976 levels (and given the fact there are WAY more cars on the road today) that every single day would be a "condition red air pollution warning day" instead of every-other day, like we have here in metro Ga. "Denial" 'ain't just a river in Egypt. Ever stop to think that the "pollution warning days" you have might not be caused by cars alone?
You didn't answer my question either. Does your bike have Cats? Seems as if you were as genuinely concerned as you say, you'd have added them by now.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 7
I have no scientific data to back my own experience up but I know my car with an aggresive cam and no cats creates a terriable smell. The car is dead nuts on as far as the tune but it will make you cry if your near the exhaust pipes for more than a minute.
I have thought about putting cats on the car but it won't pass emission anyway so I am just going to live with it for now
I have thought about putting cats on the car but it won't pass emission anyway so I am just going to live with it for now
Racer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: Southbury CT
Originally Posted by Johnny S
A properly tuned car will pollute no more without cats than with them. This has been proven time and again, and I even know of cars that have passed emissions testing after the cats were removed. Cats were mandated back in 75 when the technology didn't exist to make cars run cleaner. Cars today are efficient enough to not need cats, but the environmentalists wouldn't be happy, so we're stuck with them.
Environmentalists don't specify that cars have cats. They pressure lawmakers to set emission levels that promote cleaner air and are commercially achievable. Cats are expensive and use scarce and expensive metals. Vehicle Manufacturers would not use them if they were not needed to meet the current standards. Take off your cats and you WILL notice a noxious odor that sure quacks like pollution.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 474
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From: Moncks Corner South Carolina
Originally Posted by Ruby6spd
I have no scientific data to back my own experience up but I know my car with an aggresive cam and no cats creates a terriable smell. The car is dead nuts on as far as the tune but it will make you cry if your near the exhaust pipes for more than a minute.
I have thought about putting cats on the car but it won't pass emission anyway so I am just going to live with it for now
I have thought about putting cats on the car but it won't pass emission anyway so I am just going to live with it for now
Mine will make you cry sometimes if it hits you just right. Car has been tuned and runs great. My interior smells like exhaust every time I open the door to get in. I hate that. I'm getting LT headers soon, but will still be catless. Guess I'll just suck up the exhaust smell b/c I can't see paying 4 hundred bucks for cats.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,161
Likes: 17
I pulled my cats and put them back on the next week - I was sick of smelling like gas everytime I got to work!! The smell burned my eyes and made me and my car stink.....mine is a daily driver so I couldn't stand it!!
Pro
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
From: The Woodlands TX
I call it Eau De Octane...
The smell thing is no rumor. I think it is worth the extra money for the high flow cats if you are running it as a daily driver. I had the offroad x-pipe put in instead of the cats on my 99' and I gained about 10hp across the board to the wheels but then again I was running B&B shorties with a route 66 exhaust. IMO if you are going to go off road and want to drive it on the street make sure you set it up so you can easily bolt in cats at a later date if you change your mind.
The smell thing is no rumor. I think it is worth the extra money for the high flow cats if you are running it as a daily driver. I had the offroad x-pipe put in instead of the cats on my 99' and I gained about 10hp across the board to the wheels but then again I was running B&B shorties with a route 66 exhaust. IMO if you are going to go off road and want to drive it on the street make sure you set it up so you can easily bolt in cats at a later date if you change your mind.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
My old carbureted Ford truck that I drive everyday has no cats and it has no smell. Why would the Corvettes smell bad with no cats? 
The worst smelling cars I can remember were the ones that came with the first cats. Remember the nasty rotten egg smell?
The worst smelling cars I can remember were the ones that came with the first cats. Remember the nasty rotten egg smell?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 448
From: Atlanta metro Ga.
Originally Posted by Johnny S
Apparently you didn't read what I said. I never said cars that polluted at 1976 levels were O.K. What I said was that Cats are not needed to keep the pollution levels in check since the technology has progressed so far since 1976. Todays cars put out emissions that are a fraction of what they were then, and they don't need cats to do so. If todays cars can pass emissions withot cats (and they can if tuned properly), why have them?
Ever stop to think that the "pollution warning days" you have might not be caused by cars alone?
You didn't answer my question either. Does your bike have Cats? Seems as if you were as genuinely concerned as you say, you'd have added them by now.
Ever stop to think that the "pollution warning days" you have might not be caused by cars alone?
You didn't answer my question either. Does your bike have Cats? Seems as if you were as genuinely concerned as you say, you'd have added them by now.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
But if you're going to be a "responsible member of society" like you put it even racing vehicles should have emissions. Why should they get a free pass? Pollution is everywhere, not just on the city streets. Just because a person is racing it doesn't give him any more right to pollute the air. It doesn't seem fair to lay a guilt trip on one person and let another have a free ride.
Wait a minute, it sounds like I'm arguing for the opposite side. You won't get any guilt trip from me. No emissions checks here so no cats for me. Sorry. And I hope they never force emissions on racing vehicles.
I think the answer to pollution is to quit having so many babies.
Wait a minute, it sounds like I'm arguing for the opposite side. You won't get any guilt trip from me. No emissions checks here so no cats for me. Sorry. And I hope they never force emissions on racing vehicles.
I think the answer to pollution is to quit having so many babies.
Last edited by Donovan 572; Aug 24, 2004 at 02:51 PM.