You came here to secure a sale. If someone sends you back a MAF in perfect condition and has a history of it not working documented on this forum you should help, store credit or something. Your excuse there are imitations is BS. Surely you can tell the difference yourself. You say you came here to help but my guess is Corvette Forum members that have your MAFs will still have your MAFs and be out 300+. So how did you help? The only help given on this thead was us forum members warning a user your product is not bolt in horsepower with no problems. The other guy that did manage to secure a refund did so because his dealer wanted to keep his business. Smart move but hardly due to anything you have done.

 

Where is the objectivity here? I came here because another manufacture came across this post and forwarded it to me. I read the whole thing and realized that if 1 guy that has no clue tells another guy wrong info then those 2 guys tell 2 more and then the 4 tell 8 – 16-32…Then pretty soon my product sucks because a few guys out of the thousands said it does not work. Again not one post here says that Granatelli told them (the factory) we would not help. I offered parts for free to some and nose savers at drastic discounts and still you a few pick out the fly crap from the pepper.

Evil Bob – Sorry if I took it wrong – The paperweight thing got me sparked.

Again, if WE can help WE are just a phone call away. I can’t refund money to a person that has a problem with someone else. If you have a problem and want a refund you must go to the selling dealer. If you want service A#1 then call us we always try…What more can I say about that?

You came here to secure a sale. I did not come here to secure a sale, I am the owner of GMS and I don’t do sales directly. This is a 35 man operation and I handle the banks, R&D and the racing effort. If someone sends you back a MAF in perfect condition and has a history of it not working documented on this forum you should help, store credit or something. If you read the last post you would see that I said I will take them all back and make them right provided they meet the 3 requirements. Your excuse there are imitations is BS. Surely you can tell the difference yourself. Ya we can tell the difference once the part gets here but I can’t speculate over the net. My point before was GMS gets a bad wrap from all the guys that installed ported MAFs that are not GMS calibrated. I also said we may have a few out there that are not dead on but we will always address the issues – It is not my policy to hide from anyone. You say you came here to help but my guess is Corvette Forum members that have your MAFs will still have your MAFs and be out 300+. This is more : . I said I would take them back and make them right but I can’t issue cash to guys that never paid me. So how did you help?. The other guy that did manage to secure a refund did so because his dealer wanted to keep his business. Smart move but hardly due to anything you have done. You appear to be looking for a keyboard exercise and I can’t go down that road –

I am here and addressing everyones comments as best as I can.

 

Gran - It's a hard line to walk when trying to address a vocal bunch who have had or know someone who's had a bad experience with your product.

Regardless of the outcome of "this-thread" there is a definite perception (deserved or not) on the streets and in the performance shops that the GMS MAS is not a worthy bolt-on.

I would address this issue in a couple ways:

1. Publicize some dyno data with/without the GMS MAS.... if the results (HP/Drivability) are good... post em and let the facts speak for themself. I'd be happy to be a guinie pig as I've got a bone stock 01 Z06.... and I'd even pay the dyno costs @ MTI before and after to test.
hint - hint

2. Let threads like this one die on the vine.... you won't win here because you can't offer $$ to everyone with a complaint. If someone has a product specific issue maybe your tech dept can help them troubleshoot.

3. Proof is in the pudding - We all know the mountains or false-data that get's spread on these boards..... maybe you can turn the tide with the real-live data before/after the MAS, and if there are faulty units.... tell us what was wrong and how it was fixed.

But keep an eye on the pulse of things as a recent convert from everything Mustang to the Vette World..... my investigating (on the net, from some local speed shops, from local drag racers) has told me to steer clear of the GMS MAS.

Best of luck,
Jeff

 

No offense taken. I know your on the hot seat when it comes to this issue.

I do have some questions that I have been trying to get answered in regards to all of this.

When I first purchased the GMS MAF, I ordered it in conjuction with your dual cone K&N intake, that includes the aftermarket plastic airbridge. The intake is in the shape of the letter "Y". At first, I couldn't get the twin filters to fit between the GMS MAF and the forward frame of the car, so I simply ran the car with one of the K&N cone filters clamped to the front of the GMS MAF. Everything seemed to run fine, no error codes of any kind, and minimal pinging. Once I figured out how to get the dual cone intake to fit into place, the check engine light came on and I began to experience my error codes, loss of power at low speeds, and major engine ping. It wasn't until I mashed my foot to the floor, or until I hit higher speeds that the power-band seemed to return. And I did purchase the "calibrated" GMS MAF for cold air systems, as described in your advertising. Like I said, the GMS MAF worked okay with a single cone shaped K&N clamped onto the front, but performed poorly when the full blown cold air intake was installed. I reinstalled the OEM MAF and it corrected all of these problems and allowed me to continue using your dual cone intake system.

So that is the background on my experience.

I tried to get this question answered before, but had no luck, so I hope that you can help. Has there been any success in trying to program the PCM using the DiabloSport Predator to compensate for the change the GMS MAF makes to the car's intake?

I know the purpose of the MAF is to simply sense incoming airflow so the PCM can control engine functions, so maybe the GMS dual cone intake created more turbulance than the GMS MAF could handle (my opinion). Is there any technical data your company has produced to show that the Predator can compensate for this problem since both of these products are produced by your company?

Originally, I figured that since the GMS MAF and GMS dual cone intake were both made by your company, that they should work in conjuction with one another, problem free, but apparantly that may not be the case in all situations.

I still have the GMS MAF, although many months have passed since I first purchased it and a return is pretty much out of the question (I did not purchase it from Granatelli directly). Yet, if given the knowledge on how to get the GMS MAF to work, and work properly, I would reinstall it again. That is why I am curious if the DiabloSport Predator has ever been used to successfully correct these kinds of problems that the GMS MAF seems to create, since I assume your R&D departments had their hands involved with both of these products.

I made my mind up long ago to purchase a Predator, so the contents of this discussion have not swayed me one way or the other on what my next purchase will be. Other than the GMS MAF, I am still a big Granatelli fan.

 

All the Granatelli stuff should work together. I may come off mad and hard but it really frustrates me when I can't help and show you we do care. So to all of you, I did not give up yet and I still offer to fix - look at - everyone's meters.

If the meter works with one filter it should work with 2. The Y-shape drops pressure drop across the meter and should be (IS) an improvement airflow wise over a single cone - I can't figure why it worked with one and not 2. Please send your meter to me so I can look at it. The stock meter has a screen and the screen straightens the air as it goes through the meter. The theory is that the air goes past the sensing elements perfectly. We have calibrated around this issue in most cases and therefore remove the screen. This was first done BY US - with Delphi WHEN WE (GMS) did the development work on the screenless ZO6 meters. That's what gets me. A few keep Bashing saying the part does not work but every guy driving a ZO6 has my meter right from the factory.

Rather then guess I ask that anyone with an issue return the meter direct to me and I will flow each one myself.

As for the Predator question - the Predator does allow you to go into the fueling table and add or subtract fuel as well as the timing table. I find that when a customer comes to us with a stone stock ported MAF we tell them to take out 2 degrees of timing and add 3% fuel. This get rid of most of the ping

Speaking of ping - it sure seems like all California car have this problem based on the 91 octane methane fuel crap we have.

OilFieldGuy - Thanks. GMS still sells 500 LS1 meters a month and our return rate is still less then 1%.

MTI (Jason or Wayne) are strong proponents of GMS. They stock our parts and stand behind them - they have tons of dyno figures showing exactly what kind of power they make.

http://www.granatellimotorsports.com...no008small.jpg

http://www.granatellimotorsports.com...no006small.jpg

But keep an eye on the pulse of things as a recent convert from everything Mustang to the Vette World..... my investigating (on the net, from some local speed shops, from local drag racers) has told me to steer clear of the GMS MAS.

So as a Mustang guy you must be familiar with GMS and our Racing? The same still hold true on that side as well. We stand behind them all day http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/racing.htm

If you are near MTI that's the best speed shop for the recommendation

 

Just wanted to drop in and say this is a Great thread. Lots of facts and results and its awesome that the manufacturer of the product is in the middle of this overcoming all the objections. I myself have not had good reponse to the product but have also had limited exposure to it.

 

Thank-you, that's exactly the information I was looking for. It only adds to my thoughts that the DiabloSport Predator is indeed the hand-held tunner of choice (along with all of the good things I hear about that product from fellow Corvette Forum members).

I will gladly send you my GMS MAF so you can see why it worked with the one filter, but didn't work with the complete CAI system. Is there a particular address that I, or my fellow forum members, should send the GMS MAF to? And anyone in particular we should address the package to?

Thanks once again for answering my questions and concerns.

 

This is a very interesting post. Hats off to the Grantelli guy that has chimed in. I am thinking maybe in the future getting me one of these.

 

Mr. G,

I purchased my GMS MAFS on here from another forum member. As i said, after i put my Halltek Stinger on, i installed the GMS MAFS. It worked fine for a day or two and then started running lean, throwing codes and pinging. Would also run poorly in low RPM's, but did well when i stomped on it. So, after i figured that out, i put the stock one back in and the problems went away. When it is working correctly, there is a very nice increase. Would love to put this back in the car. So, i'm curious what you can/will do for me, if anything?

Thanks!

 

Medivh

Please send it to GMS at 1000 yarnell Place / Oxnard CA 93033 with a copy of the thread and I will look at it N/C

http://www.granatellimotorsports.com...programmer.htm You guys need to try these - they will address anything and everything you all have been asking for plus it shows you how much power you're making based on air consumption "realtime" not based on G force

 

GMS offered to inspect and help all the guys that said they had trouble and only 1 guy came through. You can imagine how this looks from our end. I looks like there is nothing wrong with meters but a few guys wanted to make a statement - BLASHING.

Help us help you

 

Hey Mr. G, I was wondering if you recieved my MAS. I do not think I will be able to check it this year at the track, but I am hoping after you tune it for my mods it will save me 400 on a hp tune at a pro tuner. If you have any more questions on exactly what was going on with the car just email or PM me. I am wondering when I tune with my hypertech III will that effect the custom tune you are doing to my MAS. I am Gary by the way we spoke on the phone. Thanks again for the personal attention.

 

I UPS'ed mine to you yesterday. They say it should be there on monday or tuesday.

 

The problem with everyones experiences could be the car itself. What I mean is, some cars like certain mods and others dont. Be it tire sizes and throwing AH codes to a car not liking a boosted MAF... Even though our cars were built on the same assembly line, each car really is different on how it reacts to mods.

ching... ching....

VR

G Man, you already know why I didnt send you my MAF for analysis, so its not really fair to say that we all didnt send you our MAF's

 

Medivh - need a mailing address to return your meter

everyone else, your meters were shipped please let me know the results

 

VetteRdstr - you're correct. I want the statement to be more braud but maybe it should have been more narrow

 

Great can not wait to try it out. Thanks

 

Sent you an IM.

 

I have been reading these posts as an interested bystander and want to say that I appreciate the fact that a manufacturer cares enough about their product and it's reputation that they would brave the forum and take the crap that is thrown their way by some and try to find a way to help those who have had a problem.

Thanks, Granatelli for taking the time to explain the issues and deal with the bad press and for some, their poor product results. As far as I am concerned you have offered to do everything you could possibly do to resolve the issues, namely to offer to fix the problem. That's all you can do and it is a lot more than I have seen other manufacturers do.

I have been considering trying out your product and am going to do so because your posts have impressed me. I have a bone stock Z06 and would love to bolt something on that has the potential of 10-15 hp, especially knowing that if it doesn't work I can have it fixed or return it.

I also want to say that I don't understand the mean spirited posts from a couple of you forum members. Doesn't appear to me that you want to be helped...just to complain. When someone is kind enough to give us their time and attention and try to sincerely address any negative issues they at least deserve common courtesy...not someone continuing to bitch about the very thing they just offered to fix. I don't get that one at all!

 

Way to stand behind your product How about a Forum open house or tour day @ the Granatelli facility some time ?